National Park Question

ollievon · May 26, 2017

Yes, I know metal detecting in a National Park is totally forbidden, so that's not my question. My question is for those of you who have detected outside the boundaries of a park on private property that actually borders the park, is there any rules about how far from the actual boundary you must be aware of?

For example, if you are hunting in a cornfield that borders Gettysburg and it's private property, yet you know the end of the field is where the private stops and the park begins, is there a rule about detecting within 5ft, 10ft, 100ft?

A friend recently nailed an amazing permission, yet the persons backyard backs right up to the park, and it's clear on both the park map (what is shaded green is park, and white is not) and Google Earth also gives me an idea of who far I can go...but I would prefer to make sure there is no "proximity law"?

BottleCapKing · May 26, 2017

Private property is just that. You can detect right up until the property line. I would keep a couple of feet back, just so there is no question.

But, given how the federal government works and how laws are intentionally written to be utterly incomprehensible to the average American - you never know.

Tom_in_CA · May 26, 2017

BottleCapKing said:
Private property is just that. You can detect right up until the property line. I would keep a couple of feet back, just so there is no question.

But, given how the federal government works and how laws are intentionally written to be utterly incomprehensible to the average American - you never know.

I agree with the first part of your first paragraph: "Right up to the absolute edge".

As for the 2nd paragraph, I have a question for you: Even if something silly-strange were actually in effect ("10 ft" from edge, or "100 ft" or whatever): Ask yourself: Who in the heck is out there measuring and watching you or I for think or worry or enforce such a thing ?

But it's a moot point: Farmer bob can do anything he wants on his land. Right up to the absolute last inch. Heck, I'd even step an inch over ! (just kidding)

T-Man · May 26, 2017

Oh how these borders blur... does this look like surveying equipment??? No it's a metal detector I thought I was still on farmer Browns land, I didn't see any fence or signs saying otherwise. Now if you take one step over that corn row you will be arrested for trespassing silly Park ranger dude, now get your foot off my plug. :lol:

BottleCapKing · May 26, 2017

Tom_in_CA said:
I agree with the first part of your first paragraph: "Right up to the absolute edge".

As for the 2nd paragraph, I have a question for you: Even if something silly-strange were actually in effect ("10 ft" from edge, or "100 ft" or whatever): Ask yourself: Who in the heck is out there measuring and watching you or I for think or worry or enforce such a thing ?

But it's a moot point: Farmer bob can do anything he wants on his land. Right up to the absolute last inch. Heck, I'd even step an inch over ! (just kidding)

I put nothing past the increasing overreach of federal authority.

BBsGal · May 26, 2017

Agree with ^ that private land is just that.

In addition, there are often easements attached to privately held lands for such things as utilities, roadways, ingress-egress, green spaces, etc. but never, ever, have I seen one that excludes anything except for permanent structures that might interfere with the easement access.

Even in cases where there are building setbacks, those are specifically preventing permanent structures any closer than xx distance from a particular property line.

At any rate, when in doubt, check the subdivision plat and/or book & page legal descriptions.

Tom_in_CA · May 26, 2017

BottleCapKing said:
I put nothing past the increasing overreach of federal authority.

Then you will forever be "paranoid". There might be "assassins under rocks", etc....

sweetinsanity · Jun 7, 2017

Im from Gettysburg, I detect farms right up against their fence. ive had people watch me and have had authorities ask how I was making out. before the discussion could go any farther ..... I let them know I have permission and im very well aware of the property lines. they stayed friendly and went on their way.

Mud-puppy · Jun 7, 2017

What? Really? Off limits? I had no idea! Thanks for the heads up!! That explains everything! Best Spring time hunt of my Life! I just thought I was really good!

Duly noted! Personal behavior henceforth modified to be in full compliance!...Carry on gentlemen...'Like me' on youtube if you will...

ollievon · Jun 7, 2017

sweetinsanity said:
Im from Gettysburg, I detect farms right up against their fence. ive had people watch me and have had authorities ask how I was making out. before the discussion could go any farther ..... I let them know I have permission and im very well aware of the property lines. they stayed friendly and went on their way.

I think this is all the information I needed. Tom of CA - I get your point, but as much as we roll our eyes about the semantics, but when dealing with a potential "Federal Felony" it is worth educating ourselves about wouldn't you agree?

I went back to the property and interestingly enough the park boundary markers were covered up in thick vines...so clearly they aren't making a real effort to make sure YOU know where the boundaries are...but at the same time ignorance is no excuse.

We're going to hit this location next weekend and if officer Newbie shows up we will be sure to inform him that we clearly know where the border is and where we cannot go...I just wanted to see what you all thought as well.

Tom_in_CA · Jun 7, 2017

ollievon said:
.... a potential "Federal Felony" it is worth educating ourselves about wouldn't you agree? .....

If there was any reason to even THINK that this could be a "federal felony", then yes, I'd agree with you. But how is that premise possible ? The OP here is private property up-to-the-last inch. Right ? Seems to me that a burden of proof is on someone saying "you can't do that". Not the other way around.

If the question were about md'ing on the OTHER side of the fence (the NPS side), then yes, I'd agree with you. I guess it just seemed so foreign to me that there was ever a problem in the first place, hence what "federal felony" could there be ? Like asking "should I fear being trampled by elephants?", Someone might say "Why even ask that?", to which you might reply "Better safe than sorry" . Meanwhile the first guy is still scratching his head saying "why would anyone fear being trampled by elephants ?"

kyjake · Jun 7, 2017

Does this ban extent to the National Forest land also?I will be at one this summer on a lake with a nice swimming area.

Tom_in_CA · Jun 7, 2017

kyjake said:
Does this ban extent to the National Forest land also?I will be at one this summer on a lake with a nice swimming area.

NFS has Express allowance for metal detecting. Versus merely silent on the issue. Albeit ARPA might kick in. So you're just looking for meteorites, nuggets, new stuff, and the ring your wife lost.

I've heard a specific back east spot of NFS had a specific dis-allowance. For just select park or section. Perhaps because that had a historic sensitive exception? I just know that there is express allowance @ some links of NFS . If you need it, I can fish up the link and post it.

Paul B · Jun 7, 2017

Tom_in_CA said:
NFS has Express allowance for metal detecting. Versus merely silent on the issue. Albeit ARPA might kick in. So you're just looking for meteorites, nuggets, new stuff, and the ring your wife lost.

I've heard a specific back east spot of NFS had a specific dis-allowance. For just select park or section. Perhaps because that had a historic sensitive exception? I just know that there is express allowance @ some links of NFS . If you need it, I can fish up the link and post it.

Please post it, I, we, wife and I camp.

Paul B

Tom_in_CA · Jun 8, 2017

Paul B said:
Please post it,....

Here you go. My rate is $20. I accept paypal

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf

Of course it has the obligatory "...always wise to check with local ranger" blah blah blather. Oh sure, so that someone local dreams up that you might harm earthworms ? Nonsense. Just print this out, and THAT is your "checking", ha !

Of course steer clear of obvious historic sensitive monuments and archie conventions. And if questioned, you're only finding clad and modern trinkets (or nuggets or meteorities, etc...)

DougF · Jun 8, 2017

Boy, that NFS document is surprisingly reasonable for a government rule on metal detecting. Thanks for posting it, Tom.

Tom_in_CA · Jun 8, 2017

DougF said:
Boy, that NFS document is surprisingly reasonable for a government rule on metal detecting. Thanks for posting it, Tom.

Your welcome (my rates are reasonable :laughing:

)

Seeing as how mere silence on the subject would equate to "not disallowed", then .... you certainly can't argue with an express ALLOWANCE. Eh ?

But as I say: It's still subject to arpa (50 yr. old, blah blah). My math never was too good. Nor have I, in my 40+ yrs. of this EVER had anyone come up to me, riffle through the contents my apron, armed with a calculator, doing math on ages. If someone is really concerned (if you, gasp, found a 1966 roosie, which is 51 yr. old) , then that's what back-pockets and socks were invented for !

National Park Question

ollievon

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BottleCapKing

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Tom_in_CA

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T-Man

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sweetinsanity

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ollievon

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kyjake

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