Questions about some unique .45 ACP slugs (WWI-era)

U would be REM-UMC. Hole looks like an impact.

Charlie

#1 it is an impact mark, not a tracer or incendiary.

#2 if it appears tinned, I would guess an early .45ACP bullet. Probably pre-WW2, as that type of jacketing had pretty much disappeared by then.

Cannot help on #3, sorry.

No 1 & 3 are correct No 2 the lines are the rifling marks

Navy Davey said:

No 1 & 3 are correct No 2 the lines are the rifling marks

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Those are not the lines he is referring to. The small lines above the cannelure. They are crimp marks of some kind.

The historical evolvement heritage and pedigree of .45 ACP sure makes for an interesting read! From what we all sort of understand from our childhood, down through the ages, true or not, this caliber was conceived and created in order to quickly stop a close quarters charge of a machete wielding Philippine Moro running Amok that the .38 was 'incapable' of doing....It was intended to be a 'comfort blanket' to forces in field, and its legendary status as a 'Man Stopper' was built off of dubious data and marketing regarding same..

I dont know..In that situation, One would think a baseball bat, spear, or most certainly a 12ga with 00 buck would be much more effective..Never the less, the .45 ACP caliber gained a mythological foothold about flipping a crazed machete wielding attacker right out of their sandals at close range...and thus it was adopted as a viable sidearm...

The googly machine discusses the intent of this design, much ado about ballistics and general foo farrar of the .45ACPs magical and legendary exploits...

I will say the last thing a guy wants to have in hand to survive a close quarters charge by a committed murderous adversary is any kind of handgun...Yeah...but theres no money made to be selling Louisville Sluggers to the military...plus the holsters? WTH?..Little League? Just saying...

Along these lines, regarding your find, I would say that punched side indentation is a 'whistling hole'..made with a leather punch a guy would use on a belt...to whistle like mad and scare dramatically the downrange deranged that were missed?...or something? Spray and Pray and get out of the way? thats just a guess..like carving an 'X' into the tip of a normal round, so it really kills? Yeah...been there...!

Mud-puppy said:

The historical evolvement heritage and pedigree of .45 ACP sure makes for an interesting read! From what we all sort of understand from our childhood, down through the ages, true or not, this caliber was conceived and created in order to quickly stop a close quarters charge of a machete wielding Philippine Moro running Amok that the .38 was 'incapable' of doing....It was intended to be a 'comfort blanket' to forces in field, and its legendary status as a 'Man Stopper' was built off of dubious data and marketing regarding same..

I dont know..In that situation, One would think a baseball bat, spear, or most certainly a 12ga with 00 buck would be much more effective..Never the less, the .45 ACP caliber gained a mythological foothold about flipping a crazed machete wielding attacker right out of their sandals at close range...and thus it was adopted as a viable sidearm...

The googly machine discusses the intent of this design, much ado about ballistics and general foo farrar of the .45ACPs magical and legendary exploits...

I will say the last thing a guy wants to have in hand to survive a close quarters charge by a committed murderous adversary is any kind of handgun...Yeah...but theres no money made to be selling Louisville Sluggers to the military...plus the holsters? WTH?..Little League? Just saying...

Along these lines, regarding your find, I would say that punched side indentation is a 'whistling hole'..made with a leather punch a guy would use on a belt...to whistle like mad and scare dramatically the downrange deranged that were missed?...or something? Spray and Pray and get out of the way? thats just a guess..like carving an 'X' into the tip of a normal round, so it really kills? Yeah...been there...!

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I've gotta say, nothing in your post relates to the actual thread. He wanted an ID on some bullets found, not ranting about the merits of the .45ACP or your opinion on the merits of handguns in combat. I disagree with both, but this is a thread on ID.

worm12ga said:

I've gotta say, nothing in your post relates to the actual thread. He wanted an ID on some bullets found, not ranting about the merits of the .45ACP or your opinion on the merits of handguns in combat. I disagree with both, but this is a thread on ID.

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...You are correct...I have a tendency to go off on a tangent....My bad...I was just riffing in general off some cool ballistical finds there...Like a color commentator on the Weather Channel talking about the inbound Ark Storm on the Oroville Dam...

You seem to know a lot of about bullets, probably from looking at your head in the mirror, so I will defer to your expertise on this matter...

Mud-puppy said:

...You are correct...I have a tendency to go off on a tangent....My bad...I was just riffing in general off some cool ballistical finds there...Like a color commentator on the Weather Channel talking about the inbound Ark Storm on the Oroville Dam...

You seem to know a lot of about bullets, probably from looking at your head in the mirror, so I will defer to your expertise on this matter...

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Not sure if that was meant as a joke, insult, or more of a tangent.

worm12ga said:

Not sure if that was meant as a joke, insult, or more of a tangent.

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Yeah, sorry about that Buddy! Again, I was off on another mental tangent that had no bearing on this subject! No insult intended! Most of my replies are 'For Entertainment Purposes Only'... My head looks like a potato if thats any consolation...

If you really want to know everything there is to know about that bullet, there are two organizations that I would refer you to: the NRA, and the FBI.

worm12ga said:

I've gotta say, nothing in your post relates to the actual thread. He wanted an ID on some bullets found, not ranting about the merits of the .45ACP or your opinion on the merits of handguns in combat. I disagree with both, but this is a thread on ID.

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I thoroughly enjoyed Mud's contributions and the whistling hole could be relevant so don't be a stick in the mud (pun intended) and stop playing at thread police.

OP3CRIMSIN said:

I thoroughly enjoyed Mud's contributions and the whistling hole could be relevant so don't be a stick in the mud (pun intended) and stop playing at thread police.

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Not playing at thread police. A legitimate professional was asking for our help. Clogging up the thread makes such individuals less likely to visit this site, as do these disagreements. And the whistling hole was clearly a joke, and so not relevant.

In an attempt to settle this matter, without creating a fuss, First of all, We dont know if this guy is a legitimate professional or not..he could be merely another dirt bank 'target range digger' for all we know? The damn guy only has 7 posts, and one would think any certified educated archy knows more about things than us Hobbiests do right? Or at least find the answers amongst his peers and not coming here for a cheapie? So what the hell? As far as the punched 'whistle hole' yeah...spurious surmising on my part..intended to make a point though...But in my noble effort to educate the unwashed masses, here goes...

What makes more sense in the adoption of the .45acp in the South Pacific jungle battles against the Legendary 'Running Amok Machete wielding Muslim Moros' the picture of that bulletine side indentation is its probably a porcine "tallow hole"...

Back then, everybody knew that trick!..Muslims killed by a pig fat impregnated round would never experience the mythological joys of the afterlife!...Common knowledge for the troops to sit around the campfire and lace their rounds accordingly! Basically, a 'tallow rig' to a Muslim is like shooting a Werewolf with a silver slug, only a hell of a lot cheaper to Uncle Sam! If the Moros had any idea they might be killed by an 'unclean' pig fat plugged bullet, delivered by a Christian Ohio Farmboy infidel, let alone from a Bronx NY Jew kid? They were less apt to put up a noble frontal assault under these conditions, and Who could blame them? Therefore, the Gov issued 1911 .45acp ..the side punched porcine plugged 'Trench Pigger' ammo was an infield modification.....

Understandable on all accounts...in this instance, both for the pitcher and the catcher so to speak..One dont want to get killed at all, and the other dont want to miss out on the fabulous promised joys of Eternity by getting themselves killed uncleanly? Stalemate!

So thats it...taking into account why the .45 was invented in the first place, where it was used, and against whom, best I can tell, thats a tallow hole... Tell you what..pop that up on Ebay! Do a write up about a rare 'trench made .45 acp tallow hole' from the Moro Wars...

I bet somebody would give you a dollar! Or put it up there as a 'whistle hole' camp round from Pattons push through Europe?? 2 easy dollars there probably! Mention you are an 'educated archaeologist' as initially stated here.....jack it up another dollar or two! For shipping!

FWIW....In case anyone is still wondering..yep.. just Mudpuppy freestyle bullcrapp riffing here! Fussing .45ACP trench made 'pork hole'? for attacking Moro Muslims? You really believed that? Just saying..although the OP did find these questionable slugs in California right?...OK...

I just blocked him. First jerk I've come across on the friendly detecting forums. Probably won't be the last. Sorry OP for worm12ga. We're not all like that.

OP3CRIMSIN said:

I just ignored him. First jerk I've come across on the friendly detecting forums. Probably won't be the last. Sorry OP for worm12ga. We're not all like that.

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Not sure how I was being a jerk by offering my opinion on the finds, and trying to keep the thread on topic. You obviously didn't 'just ignore' me since you responded. Stop getting so butthurt about an online thread.

Also, this minor disagreement you seem to be trying to escalate had almost nothing to do with the OP, so I don't think your apology to him matters.