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  #41  
Old 10-19-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by It's A Trap! View post
Nice ID! I wonder why someone would bury that? Hopefully you can still get it back from the police...
Probably stolen and buried temporarily till the thief could retrieve it.... and he never did... Perhaps did not know he had taken a prop gun.
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:40 PM
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Why have the police involved? I wouldn't have said a word. You found it, it's yours!
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nostalgia083 View post
Why have the police involved? I wouldn't have said a word. You found it, it's yours!
I wondered why also but not for the same reason. It was obviously a toy to begin with. He is not showing the whole rifle so I am sure there was other things about it that said it was a toy just by looking at it.

Colt made all the original M-16's and then they were made by other companies. Every M-16 I ever shot between 1975 and 1980 were made by Colt. No M-16 had the M-16 stamped into it and none had assault rifle stamped either.

We have to have drama on this site or it would be boring I guess.

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  #44  
Old 10-19-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikey48 View post
From the photo the corrosion looks like zinc.
Probably a non-lethal stage prop.
exactly what I'm thinking. Looks like a corroded felix penny stamped M16

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  #45  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:49 PM
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I was a Marine in Nam 68-69 there were never assault anything on it. Does it have serial # on it ,select fire ?
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  #46  
Old 10-20-2017, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by worm12ga View post
I win!

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/de...prod_3374.html
Great job. I couldn't figure out how it worked when the gas tube didn't make as far as the gas block. Also I've never seen a barrel that shape or forearm guard mounts like that.

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  #47  
Old 10-20-2017, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
I wondered why also but not for the same reason. It was obviously a toy to begin with. He is not showing the whole rifle so I am sure there was other things about it that said it was a toy just by looking at it.

Colt made all the original M-16's and then they were made by other companies. Every M-16 I ever shot between 1975 and 1980 were made by Colt. No M-16 had the M-16 stamped into it and none had assault rifle stamped either.

We have to have drama on this site or it would be boring I guess.
I don't think it was that obvious it was a toy, since it is not a toy. It is a movie-quality replica firearm. From a distance, it looked possibly real to me, and I'm familiar with AR's/M-16's. It looked fishy, but until I saw that protrusion where the forward assist should be I wasn't really sure.

As I posted earlier, there were lowers stamped with M-16 although in a different location.
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  #48  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
I wondered why also but not for the same reason. It was obviously a toy to begin with. He is not showing the whole rifle so I am sure there was other things about it that said it was a toy just by looking at it.

Colt made all the original M-16's and then they were made by other companies. Every M-16 I ever shot between 1975 and 1980 were made by Colt. No M-16 had the M-16 stamped into it and none had assault rifle stamped either.

We have to have drama on this site or it would be boring I guess.
I showed the whole rifle in the video link posted in a previous comment. I'm not a gun expert on what is fake or real, which is why I posted it here for insight... not looking for any drama "hunting" with this rifle posting... remember what may seem obvious to you is not always the same for others.

If you knew more of the back story, you'd reconsider my thought process on why it COULD be real and why I took the steps I did. Google "Bemis Boys" and you'll find many articles about what went on in the area this gun was found. "Gun Rue" will also pull up the area culture.... Knowing the neighborhood quickly changed my mind on how to treat this discovery.

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  #49  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:19 PM
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I did a little search on them Bemis Boys , so I understand your reasons with the police. Better safe than sorry. Prior to that search, not knowing what you know, I would have kept it as well. You did what you felt was right, and that's all that matters. Good on you for your beliefs. I will agree with others , some things on that gun , just wasn't right , from my M16 carrying days in the 80s.
Will be watching for updates on this story in the near future.

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  #50  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by worm12ga View post
I don't think it was that obvious it was a toy, since it is not a toy. It is a movie-quality replica firearm. From a distance, it looked possibly real to me, and I'm familiar with AR's/M-16's. It looked fishy, but until I saw that protrusion where the forward assist should be I wasn't really sure.

As I posted earlier, there were lowers stamped with M-16 although in a different location.
The first 16's that had that style flash hider didn't have a forward assist, but they didn't have that protrusion either, and they did have a shell deflector that is not on what was found.

There are many things wrong with it that would tip off anyone familiar with real ones. Pin locations for the fire control group are wrong. Roll pins where there should be solid pins. E-clips on the pivot pin. No deflector behind the ejection port. Roll marks are all wrong. Etc.....

From what has been shown (in the pics and the video) the only parts that might even possibly be useable on a real one are the buttstock, grip, maybe some of the handguard hardware, and maybe the flash hider.

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  #51  
Old 10-23-2017, 08:10 PM
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So, Swing. Hear back from the gendarmes, yet?

Roger
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  #52  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Longhair View post
The first 16's that had that style flash hider didn't have a forward assist, but they didn't have that protrusion either, and they did have a shell deflector that is not on what was found.

There are many things wrong with it that would tip off anyone familiar with real ones. Pin locations for the fire control group are wrong. Roll pins where there should be solid pins. E-clips on the pivot pin. No deflector behind the ejection port. Roll marks are all wrong. Etc.....

From what has been shown (in the pics and the video) the only parts that might even possibly be useable on a real one are the buttstock, grip, maybe some of the handguard hardware, and maybe the flash hider.
I'll agree with some of your points, but you're dead wrong on the forward assist/flash hider/shell deflector. Tons were made that way. Obviously the protrusion is not a forward assist, but again, from a distance...

Millions of viewers have watched movies and tv shows with this exact model replica firearm and didn't pick up on the minor differences. Undoubtedly, many of them were former military/LEO/enthusiasts.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...quent_Wind.jpg

Even better link:
https://youtu.be/bJODc5t7SGY
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  #53  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by worm12ga View post
I'll agree with some of your points, but you're dead wrong on the forward assist/flash hider/shell deflector.
Yeeeaahh.....only I'm not. The first AR15's were sent to SE Asia in 1961 by William Godel (not like the '66 video you linked to), and they had three prong flash hiders, no forward assist, Different charging handles, and the deflector was a raised portion of the forging at the rear part of the ejection port (not a bump behind the port like they are now).
Look up AR15-601 and 602. It wasn't until the 603/604 and the Army's XM16E1 that they had a forward assist ('64). And the Air Force still had M16's with no FA. The A1 ('67) was when they went to a chrome lined chamber and bore, changed from the three prong hider to a birdcage, and a couple other minor mods.



Though not complete, quite a bit of the history can be found on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

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  #54  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Longhair View post
Yeeeaahh.....only I'm not. The first AR15's were sent to SE Asia in 1961 by William Godel (not like the '66 video you linked to), and they had three prong flash hiders, no forward assist, Different charging handles, and the deflector was a raised portion of the forging at the rear part of the ejection port (not a bump behind the port like they are now).
Look up AR15-601 and 602. It wasn't until the 603/604 and the Army's XM16E1 that they had a forward assist ('64). And the Air Force still had M16's with no FA. The A1 ('67) was when they went to a chrome lined chamber and bore, changed from the three prong hider to a birdcage, and a couple other minor mods.

Though not complete, quite a bit of the history can be found on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
The XM16E1 had the combination of features you describe, as issued, albeit for a short period of time. Nobody said the rifle in question was like the very first ones that were sent to southeast asia.

Even if it wasn't issued with that combination (which it was), the modular design and frequent small changes over the years for both the military and civilian markets mean virtually any combination of features is possible.
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  #55  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:21 AM
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Those Japanese replicas can be convincing at first glance.

While in Japan in the late 60's I bought a model of the Colt 1911 pistol. It was the same size and weight as the real thing. All the controls (safeties, magazine release, etc.) worked as well. It came with solid brass "cartridges" with a hollow nose which would accept a cap of sorts to make the "bang". I never acquired or even saw any such cap. The only immediately visible clue that this was not a real gun was the barrel obstruction which would strike the nose of the brass "bullets" and set off the cap.

Upon my reassignment to Altus AFB Oklahoma I spent a few weeks living in the barracks on base. There was a desk of sorts in my room and I decided that the fake 1911 would make a great paper weight.

There was a surprise inspection of the barracks by the IG one day. I was tracked down to the EOD area and arrested, handcuffs and all, without even being told the reason by the USAF Security Police.

At the police station I was finally told that they had found an unauthorized weapon in my room! I could not help but break out laughing when it became apparent that I had been arrested and hauled in, interrupting a training exercise over a toy pistol. The officer in charge did not wait until I was out of ear shot to chew out the arresting officers. Everyone apologized and I was returned to the training exercise.

So yep, those Japanese models could be very convincing.
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  #56  
Old 10-24-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by laradactyl View post
Those Japanese replicas can be convincing at first glance.

While in Japan in the late 60's I bought a model of the Colt 1911 pistol. It was the same size and weight as the real thing. All the controls (safeties, magazine release, etc.) worked as well.
************************************************** *******
And that kit was most likely made by L&S. I have their 1:1 scale copy of the "M-177 Commando", that's still in kit form. Nice kits, and I'd love to get more of what they offered, but very hard to find anymore, and quite expensive.

Roger
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  #57  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Longhair View post
Yeeeaahh.....only I'm not. The first AR15's were sent to SE Asia in 1961 by William Godel (not like the '66 video you linked to), and they had three prong flash hiders, no forward assist, Different charging handles, and the deflector was a raised portion of the forging at the rear part of the ejection port (not a bump behind the port like they are now).
Look up AR15-601 and 602. It wasn't until the 603/604 and the Army's XM16E1 that they had a forward assist ('64). And the Air Force still had M16's with no FA. The A1 ('67) was when they went to a chrome lined chamber and bore, changed from the three prong hider to a birdcage, and a couple other minor mods.



Though not complete, quite a bit of the history can be found on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
I'm not insinuating your wrong in any way , but just a question for you here. In that pic you posted , the bolt assembly in that weapon has the ridges cut into it, weren't those ridges for the forward assist feature ? Could that pic be of a non original weapon ?

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  #58  
Old 10-25-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hawgdawg View post
I'm not insinuating your wrong in any way , but just a question for you here. In that pic you posted , the bolt assembly in that weapon has the ridges cut into it, weren't those ridges for the forward assist feature ? Could that pic be of a non original weapon ?
Good observation. My guess is that it's a late model made for the Air Force prior to the universal implementation of the A2.

While a bolt with FA cuts is unnecessary on an upper w/o an assist, it does no harm, and the newer bolts had other minor tweaks that increased reliability.
FWIW, I have an upper w/o FA that has an FA bolt. And truth be told, in over 40yrs I've never used an FA. They really are a Band-Aid for a problem that ceased to exist due to other improvements.

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  #59  
Old 10-25-2017, 08:56 PM
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I want to know of they kept your toy or not?

Crazy find!

<)))>{
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  #60  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ice Scratcher View post
I want to know of they kept your toy or not?

Crazy find!

<)))>{
To date... it has not been returned.

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