Knife style digger vs shovel on lawns

BaldAssCat

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
782
Location
MA
Some time back I seem to remember people saying they can cut a plug better and faster with a Lesche Sampson T-Handle shovel than with a Lesche standard digging tool (knife style). I have both and I haven’t been able to get a plug from the shovel good enough that I’m comfortable using it in a park with well-kept grass. I also haven’t been able to find anything on the interwebs showing anyone getting a good enough plug from it. In fact, I don’t see much in the way of videos using the shovel at all.

I realize I’m asking how to use a shovel. I feel silly about it but I’ve picked all the easy shallow targets from my favorite spot and I’m going after the deeper stuff. It’s a very old site so deep can be 12 inches just to find a rusty square nail. It’s far from all nails so I’m digging everything but I’d like to speed things up.

Does anyone have any advice regarding the use of a Sampson T-Handle on a lawn? Or should I stick to the standard digger?
 
While I personally don't have plug cutting experience with a shovel, in every single video I've seen (with one exception that I'll get to), the shovel produces cleaning plugs. The reason for this, is because with the shovel, the blade only stabs the turf to create separation, whereas the hand differs use a sawing and tearing motion to achieve separation. This leaves the edges looking a lot more messy stringy, in my opinion.

The one exception to the hand digger is with the Raptor, by Predator Tools. But this because it also uses the same stabbing motions as the shovel. Bit it's also not the knife-style you're referring to.


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I dunno, I keep hearing the term "speed" in a lot of aspects of the hobby. When did it become such a race to efficiency? I've watched a couple videos on youtube from a group of MDers, a popular one. They use shovels. I've seen them flop a 12" plug over, and still missed their target, it's setting on the side of the hole they just dig :lol:

I will say, I'd guess there's less chance of a plug of grass dying, or being pulled-out when its that large. I think you need to keep in mind public perception. Sure, someone will be right along and say "well, if it's not against the law...blah, blah".

Think about Bill and Betty who live in a nice 1850 homestead across from the old park watching a guy with a shovel flopping large plugs of dirt over. They won't understand, but I will tell you what they'll say if that guy heads over to ask permission on their property.

I'm not knocking either way, I'm "not your supervisor" :lol:, but if it takes you 30-60 seconds longer with a hand digger over a shovel, have you really lost anything? Have you stood to gain possibly (remember Bill and Betty)?

Much too has to do with how considerate the person detecting is, meaning how grateful he is for the permission he was granted. I use a drop cloth (18" square) on manicured lawns, and all the dirt stays on it, and it all goes back into the hole. I also make it a point to try and blend the plug back in best I can. If it's an irregular shape, put it back in the way it came out. The 3-sided flap method even better.

There's one place I will use a shovel, a field. Everyplace else is a hand digger. That's me, not wrong/right, just what I do/think.
 
Ever since I got the mini Sampson my lesche has gotten no use. Sampson is quick and fast and best of all keeps the plugs neat

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I have bad knees so for me the shovel is much easier. 75% of the time I can get the target while standing. IMHO it's a lot quicker and cleaner than a hand digger in this GA clay. I carry both but only use the hand digger for digging under roots or prying out rocks.


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I love the Sampson for cutting plugs personally. It's good in Bermuda and regular grass. I do one cut, turn 90 degrees and do a second one that meets the first cut, then go across and do a third cut, then use the shovel to pop up the plug. I'm careful not to let any dirt fall out of the hole to keep things neat, and once my target is gotten I carefully flip the plug back over and gently tuck it in. I do not step on the plug but press it down firmly with my hands to seat it back in place.

I do my plugs the same way with the digger, but it's so much easier with the shovel. I do not use the shovel in my city park, but do use it elsewhere and really like the thing.
 
While I personally don't have plug cutting experience with a shovel, in every single video I've seen (with one exception that I'll get to), the shovel produces cleaning plugs. The reason for this, is because with the shovel, the blade only stabs the turf to create separation, whereas the hand differs use a sawing and tearing motion to achieve separation. This leaves the edges looking a lot more messy stringy, in my opinion.

The one exception to the hand digger is with the Raptor, by Predator Tools. But this because it also uses the same stabbing motions as the shovel. Bit it's also not the knife-style you're referring to.


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Never thought of it that way and it makes sense why it works. My problem is getting the theory to work in practice.
 
I'm not a fan of long handled shoves in parks. This is the best way to get a park shut down from metal detecting. I use a coin popper I made from a gasket scraper and Predator Rapter 31 for the deeper targets. Check out my vids to see how it's done. I do have a Sampson 31 I use in the woods, fields and some private property with permission.
 
I dunno, I keep hearing the term "speed" in a lot of aspects of the hobby. When did it become such a race to efficiency? I've watched a couple videos on youtube from a group of MDers, a popular one. They use shovels. I've seen them flop a 12" plug over, and still missed their target, it's setting on the side of the hole they just dig :lol:

I will say, I'd guess there's less chance of a plug of grass dying, or being pulled-out when its that large. I think you need to keep in mind public perception. Sure, someone will be right along and say "well, if it's not against the law...blah, blah".

Think about Bill and Betty who live in a nice 1850 homestead across from the old park watching a guy with a shovel flopping large plugs of dirt over. They won't understand, but I will tell you what they'll say if that guy heads over to ask permission on their property.

I'm not knocking either way, I'm "not your supervisor" :lol:, but if it takes you 30-60 seconds longer with a hand digger over a shovel, have you really lost anything? Have you stood to gain possibly (remember Bill and Betty)?

Much too has to do with how considerate the person detecting is, meaning how grateful he is for the permission he was granted. I use a drop cloth (18" square) on manicured lawns, and all the dirt stays on it, and it all goes back into the hole. I also make it a point to try and blend the plug back in best I can. If it's an irregular shape, put it back in the way it came out. The 3-sided flap method even better.

There's one place I will use a shovel, a field. Everyplace else is a hand digger. That's me, not wrong/right, just what I do/think.

I agree about perception. I'm not planning to use it where people will be watching. People will be by after I'm gone though so I try to be sure I don't leave anything for them to find. I use my drop cloth and go the extra mile to keep things neat. That's the reason I haven't used the shovel outside of fields and woods yet. I'm not confident I can keep it clean enough.

I agree it's not all about speed but you have to admit faster target recovery has some merit. If it didn't pin pointer wouldn't sell. From the list of machines in your signature line I see you walk the talk and I wont try to convince you of anything. I will say this time of year I don't have a lot of time to hunt before dark and going out for an hour to dig 4 trash targets kind of takes the fun out of it. The area is rusty iron on every swing so pin-pointing is a challenge. I wouldn't mind 30 - 60 seconds. 10 minutes a target is starting to bite into my time though.

The people flipping 12" plugs are who I'm talking about when I say I couldn't find good examples of using it the right way.
 
Ever since I got the mini Sampson my lesche has gotten no use. Sampson is quick and fast and best of all keeps the plugs neat

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This is what I hear. I haven't figured out how to get a good plug yet.
 
I have bad knees so for me the shovel is much easier. 75% of the time I can get the target while standing. IMHO it's a lot quicker and cleaner than a hand digger in this GA clay. I carry both but only use the hand digger for digging under roots or prying out rocks.


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My knees were why I picked up the Sampson to begin with. A day in the woods with the shovel and I'm fine the next day. A day in the park with a hand digger and I'm a little slow for a few after.
 
This is what I hear. I haven't figured out how to get a good plug yet.
Like I said I don't advocate shovels in parks. But I will tell you to file the cutting edge razor sharp and put a coat of wax on the blade. I carry a file with me to keep all my diggers super sharp. Also if you diggers have paint on the business end then sand it off sharpen and wax it. Paint and dirt isn't a good combo..
 
My knees were why I picked up the Sampson to begin with. A day in the woods with the shovel and I'm fine the next day. A day in the park with a hand digger and I'm a little slow for a few after.
I understand as I have a bad knee and sciatica. So far I can still get down to the ground. One day I won't be able to so then I'll have to use a shovel. Then I guess I'll go when the parks are empty or far away from onlookers.
 
My knees were why I picked up the Sampson to begin with. A day in the woods with the shovel and I'm fine the next day. A day in the park with a hand digger and I'm a little slow for a few after.



Knee pads help but for me getting up is still painful. FWIW, I do use a hand digger when I hunt parks for the reasons mentioned above. Much prefer the long handled shovel though. Love my Predator Tools Barracuda!


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I love the Sampson for cutting plugs personally. It's good in Bermuda and regular grass. I do one cut, turn 90 degrees and do a second one that meets the first cut, then go across and do a third cut, then use the shovel to pop up the plug. I'm careful not to let any dirt fall out of the hole to keep things neat, and once my target is gotten I carefully flip the plug back over and gently tuck it in. I do not step on the plug but press it down firmly with my hands to seat it back in place.

I do my plugs the same way with the digger, but it's so much easier with the shovel. I do not use the shovel in my city park, but do use it elsewhere and really like the thing.

Like I was never there...


Dsm, you make it look easy.

I think I'm trying to finesse it too much. With the hand digger I cut a U, break the clod loose from one side and move it back to the start of the U breaking it loose as I go.

I've been trying the same thing with the shovel. I cut the way BBsGal explains it but I'm not just popping it up from there like Dsm is. I try to break it on all side like I do with the hand digger. That must be where I'm going wrong.

I'm going to try this on the edge of the field where nobody goes tomorrow. If I mess it up I go back to the Lesche and find a better place to practice. (my own yard is too sandy to get a good plug from anything)
 
I'm not a fan of long handled shoves in parks. This is the best way to get a park shut down from metal detecting. I use a coin popper I made from a gasket scraper and Predator Rapter 31 for the deeper targets. Check out my vids to see how it's done. I do have a Sampson 31 I use in the woods, fields and some private property with permission.

Like I said I don't advocate shovels in parks. But I will tell you to file the cutting edge razor sharp and put a coat of wax on the blade. I carry a file with me to keep all my diggers super sharp. Also if you diggers have paint on the business end then sand it off sharpen and wax it. Paint and dirt isn't a good combo..

I understand as I have a bad knee and sciatica. So far I can still get down to the ground. One day I won't be able to so then I'll have to use a shovel. Then I guess I'll go when the parks are empty or far away from onlookers.

I do try to use the right tool for the job and I try to keep my tools in good shape. I just sharpened my diggers for tomorrow. I can't say I bring my file with me but I hit the edges about every 3-5 hunts, depending on the amount of rocks I find when I'm out. I never thought of waxing the shovel. I'll have to try it out. The paint was gone the first day I had the shovel.

My knees aren't totally gone yet. I can still use them and if I spend the next few days doing a lot of stretching I'm fine. I'm just trying to keep them from getting worse.
 
I agree about perception. I'm not planning to use it where people will be watching. People will be by after I'm gone though so I try to be sure I don't leave anything for them to find. I use my drop cloth and go the extra mile to keep things neat. That's the reason I haven't used the shovel outside of fields and woods yet. I'm not confident I can keep it clean enough.

I agree it's not all about speed but you have to admit faster target recovery has some merit. If it didn't pin pointer wouldn't sell. From the list of machines in your signature line I see you walk the talk and I wont try to convince you of anything. I will say this time of year I don't have a lot of time to hunt before dark and going out for an hour to dig 4 trash targets kind of takes the fun out of it. The area is rusty iron on every swing so pin-pointing is a challenge. I wouldn't mind 30 - 60 seconds. 10 minutes a target is starting to bite into my time though.

The people flipping 12" plugs are who I'm talking about when I say I couldn't find good examples of using it the right way.

I've had people come in behind me in the area(s) I've dug. It's funny when you see them walking in circles because they don't know where you were.

The speed thing is all relative, I'm retired so I'm seldom in a hurry. I can see where time matters for others, same with pinpointer. I didn't use one for quite a while. Not sorry I have one, but can't say I'd be lost without it.
 
Physics.
Your foot and leg can generate more power than your arm and wrist.
The Sampson is not all that wide but sharp, in good moist soil either kind will work but when it comes to my harder SE. soil the Sampson is a bit faster.
Also it can get dirt of a small diameter hole quicker and much deeper than my Lesche hand digger without making a huge mess.
My holes aren't really wide, the width of the blade mostly, but my plugs stay together are cleaner and better.
The other day I made a little bigger hole in my dry dirt and was able to dig down to 10" to retrieve a target while dealing with many small rocks and a few big ones along the way.
I would never have even attempted doing that with my hand digger...I would still be digging if I did.
After I was done I replaced the plug it looked like I was never there.
Using my hand digger the area would have been messed up much more.

Using wide shovels like the Hoover Boys use in my parks and neighborhood lawns is out of the question but the Sampson, which I have had for a couple of years but never used, is now an integral part of my arsenal and is helping me to find more targets faster and deeper and is leaving my sites cleaner.

Three or four vertical cuts around the outside overlapping the edges just a bit while still leaving a small part connected then just lift from the opposite end of the remaining flap part is how I do it and it works.
Practice makes perfect.
 
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