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  #21  
Old 01-26-2018, 08:44 AM
sweetinsanity sweetinsanity is offline
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we hunt civil war areas. we leave it in all metal most of the time. we pull lead, cast iron, copper, brass,,,,, if it rings, we dig! my machine runs its hottest in the all metal mode.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by modeltguy View post
Fairly new at this and need enlightenment. If a detector has both audio and visual indicators, and if it is supposed to go deeper in all metal mode, why use the coin/jewelry settings? Wouldn't it make sense to use all metal and choose your digs using the visual or audio indications?
Lol you opened a can of worms! Your gonna get multiple answers because “all metal” can be different on different detectors. On my old fisher F4 there was a “all metal” setting. Basically if there was any sort of metal you got a tone. All metals made the same tone and there was no visual ID in this mode.
What type of detector or detectors are you talking about. If you give everyone one or a couple examples we can address the MD’s you are specifically asking about.
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2018, 03:15 AM
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Agreed coin chase. For me AM/All Metal has no target ID or tone ID it is pure unprocessed AM which is why it goes deeper. Not a lot of filtering damping the signal. If you get target ID it isn't true AM. In true AM everything will sound the same.

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  #24  
Old 01-29-2018, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Detector View post
I.E. Beep-N-Dig. It means you really just are guessing if its a good signal or a piece of trash, so if it makes a noise, you dig.

Contrary to what some will say, I have yet to have anyone produce a detector that can go AM and have accurate target ID below 8" consistently. None, Nada don't exist, YET! If such a detector existed, common senses tells you it would be what everyone used. Right? DUH!

I've had many good detectors that could get extremely deep and SOMETIMES even give me a good accurate ID, either tone or visual, at 10", but that is the exception to the rule. Like the halo so to say.

I know it is just a matter of time before new detecting technology will break that barrier and I wanna be one of the first to own one. I got lots of really great places with some really great finds waiting for such a detector. Right now my hope is on the Equinox. Time will tell.
There is absolutely no dealership, repair center, coil availability in the entire North America for these machines. Greece or Spain has dealerships as does Bulgaria and Russia but nothing of the sort here. The only Aka section besides the Aka forum is Rew's AKA section at Gary's forum in the UK. There are a handful in the US that use them but its sort of a PITA.2 or 3 frequency coils are somewhat expensive, in Russia they have after market 1,2,3 frequency customized coil builds for them but it takes more than a month to build once you tell them what frequencies you want the coil at ,so compile 3 more weeks shipping at the earliest on top of that and you see why they haven't became popular.

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  #25  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:53 AM
modeltguy modeltguy is offline
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I have a Whites MX5 with a DD coil that I use most of the time. I also have an Ace 250 and a Silver Umax. Thanks for all the responses so far--interesting!
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  #26  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:19 AM
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I always hunt in either mixed mode or in all metal. Depends where I am hunting. At the beach in dry sand, it is AM all the time. If I am hunting a park that has been cleaned out, I will hunt in single-freq all metal to get that extra depth. If I am in the woods and there isn't a significant amount of trash in the ground, I will hunt in all metal.

Generally, I hunt mixed mode, because if I hear something on the disc channel, but not on the AM channel, it is definitely a false signal and is a reminder to slow my swinging down.

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  #27  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sllingshot47 View post
I was referring to motion a/m- which, even on my Ace 250 has tone and visual ID.
Pretty sure the Ace 250 doesn't have an all metal mode.
It has no threshold, no manual ground balance, and only creates 3 digital sounds. (I had the Ace 350 and loved it for a first detector.)

You can set it so it doesn't mute any tones, but I think it only has a disc circuit.
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  #28  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave_e View post
Pretty sure the Ace 250 doesn't have an all metal mode.
It has no threshold, no manual ground balance, and only creates 3 digital sounds. (I had the Ace 350 and loved it for a first detector.)

You can set it so it doesn't mute any tones, but I think it only has a disc circuit.
I HAVE one! It is MOTION a/m. It gives a low grunt on nails, paper clips, etc. No, it doesn't have a threshold based, wavering, true a/m mode because of a preset g/b. So if you're hell bent on finding gold flakes-or iron flakes, for that matter-no it doesn't do that. But yeah- you will find iron and tiny gold that falls in that range. I enjoy that mode because it's smoother than a pure, threshold based a/m, although in iron laden trashy areas the low grunts are annoying. FWIW, Relics mode is awesome-just enough disc to rid small iron- but not enough for larger nails- which give low grunt.
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2018, 07:01 AM
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I don't think there is such a thing as motion AM. True AM needs no motion. If you need to move the coil the signal is being processed/filtered. Sounds more like no discrimination, which can be called all metal because there is no discrimination so of course all metals make it sound off, but it's not the same as true AM.

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  #30  
Old 01-31-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sllingshot47 View post
I HAVE one! It is MOTION a/m. It gives a low grunt on nails, paper clips, etc. No, it doesn't have a threshold based, wavering, true a/m mode because of a preset g/b. So if you're hell bent on finding gold flakes-or iron flakes, for that matter-no it doesn't do that. But yeah- you will find iron and tiny gold that falls in that range. I enjoy that mode because it's smoother than a pure, threshold based a/m, although in iron laden trashy areas the low grunts are annoying. FWIW, Relics mode is awesome-just enough disc to rid small iron- but not enough for larger nails- which give low grunt.
Incorrect.

The Ace 250 does not have a true all metal mode, motion or non-motion, even though they printed that on the label with (Zero) next to it. That simply means zero discrimination and that it detects all metals. It's kind of deceiving actually.

You're misunderstanding what all metal mode is, and Garret printing that on their sticker is likely confusing others as well.

Changing modes on an Ace 250 only changes discrimination levels. Nothing else. There are machines that have subtle tones and "whispers", but this is not one of them.

Read Steve Herschbach's explanation here. It's the 8th post down.
All Metal explanation, including motion and non-motion

Make note of what Steve says in his post, "Many low cost detectors only operate in discriminate mode. They can achieve a fake "all metal" mode by simply accepting all targets. However, the filter is still being applied and depth still lost."

...and he's actually using a picture of your Garrett Ace 250 as his example.

One last link to help explain what all metal mode is...
Last link to help explain what all metal mode is.

Notable from that post is..."I wish manufacturers would quit referring to zero discrimination as being all metal. Two completely different things and I think it is misleading. Not purposefully, but I am learning to be very careful as this is a perfect example of a machine being said to have an all metal mode that does not. Do we need new terms? Filtered all metal versus un-filtered all metal? The AT Pro and AT Gold had similar confusion going on."

Hopefully this helps you understand all metal.
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  #31  
Old 01-31-2018, 04:10 PM
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You'd need to really know your hunting grounds well to be using true all metal.
A unit that has a simple filtered all metal can be very deep also as depth is also dependent on other factors such as recovery speed, ground balance, tx output, ground filters, freq etc
Get all these factors lined up and working at their peak, and you can have a deep unit.
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  #32  
Old 02-02-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave_e View post
Incorrect.

The Ace 250 does not have a true all metal mode, motion or non-motion, even though they printed that on the label with (Zero) next to it. That simply means zero discrimination and that it detects all metals. It's kind of deceiving actually.

You're misunderstanding what all metal mode is, and Garret printing that on their sticker is likely confusing others as well.

Changing modes on an Ace 250 only changes discrimination levels. Nothing else. There are machines that have subtle tones and "whispers", but this is not one of them.

Read Steve Herschbach's explanation here. It's the 8th post down.
All Metal explanation, including motion and non-motion

Make note of what Steve says in his post, "Many low cost detectors only operate in discriminate mode. They can achieve a fake "all metal" mode by simply accepting all targets. However, the filter is still being applied and depth still lost."

...and he's actually using a picture of your Garrett Ace 250 as his example.

One last link to help explain what all metal mode is...
Last link to help explain what all metal mode is.

Notable from that post is..."I wish manufacturers would quit referring to zero discrimination as being all metal. Two completely different things and I think it is misleading. Not purposefully, but I am learning to be very careful as this is a perfect example of a machine being said to have an all metal mode that does not. Do we need new terms? Filtered all metal versus un-filtered all metal? The AT Pro and AT Gold had similar confusion going on."

Hopefully this helps you understand all metal.
I GET THAT!!! All I'm saying is you won't miss any REAL WORLD targets and the depth is CONSIDERABLY better and you DON'T have to worry about drift and noise from mineral fluctuation. If you wanna listen to teeny fluctuations and dig them-yeah- go with true a/m. Depth is NOT everything to me and I consider it a waste of time wondering if I lost a target from a whisper or fluctuation - especially at my regular type of sites.
BTW- notice your birthday is 2 days after mine! Have a good one!
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  #33  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BottleCapKing View post
I always hunt in either mixed mode or in all metal. Depends where I am hunting. At the beach in dry sand, it is AM all the time. If I am hunting a park that has been cleaned out, I will hunt in single-freq all metal to get that extra depth. If I am in the woods and there isn't a significant amount of trash in the ground, I will hunt in all metal.

Generally, I hunt mixed mode, because if I hear something on the disc channel, but not on the AM channel, it is definitely a false signal and is a reminder to slow my swinging down.
Your last long sentence is something that should be put WAY up top and pinned. This technique,though not a secret,is what would save millions of pointless holes being dug every season,I’m sure. Every time I see a post that goes something like “I get a signal,dig, and there’s nothing there” I think of how much time the operator put in to actually determining if there was a signal there to begin with.
I learned pretty quick to “qualify” targets before even reaching for the trowel...and so should everyone else. Great post BCK.
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  #34  
Old 02-02-2018, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BottleCapKing View post
I always hunt in either mixed mode or in all metal. Depends where I am hunting. At the beach in dry sand, it is AM all the time. If I am hunting a park that has been cleaned out, I will hunt in single-freq all metal to get that extra depth. If I am in the woods and there isn't a significant amount of trash in the ground, I will hunt in all metal.

Generally, I hunt mixed mode, because if I hear something on the disc channel, but not on the AM channel, it is definitely a false signal and is a reminder to slow my swinging down.
What headphone you use in that mode? The wireless? even my Killer Bees with the compatibility switch don't play well with that. I have to use my Sennheiser or Koss for that.

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  #35  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:42 AM
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I use the DFX in mixed mode with ratchet pinpoint off and VCO on. It would be hard to miss any targets and I don't have to pull the trigger to pinpoint because, with mixed mode it is running in discriminate and pinpoint at the same time.
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