No digging parks

UpStateMike · Feb 26, 2017

Tom_in_CA said:
Exactly as I suspected. "Mincing words" and being "less than forthcoming". Eh ?

ok then, what do you do when/if you are accosted in the field ? You whip out this "permission" to show them, right ? And what if they object and say that you never mentioned "dig", hence they toss you out by your ear ?

And on that note, have you ever been carded in the first place ? If not, then .... what would have happened if you'd never asked ? Apparently nothing ?

I'm new to this hobby. There's some parks in this particular town that have some interesting history to them and I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to understand if there are any issues with people metal detecting in the city and in particular the parks. I did not think to say something like "The way I am going to go about this is to dig huge gopher holes as deep as I need to in order to obtain the metal object."

My thought was that if anyone approaches me I can show evidence I asked about metal detecting in the parks and was given the O.K. to do so. If someone gets a bug up their ass about what I'm doing in a particular park my plan is to ask them to provide the paperwork that shows I'm in violation of their ordinance and if asked to stop detecting I will.

MadTownScoop · Feb 26, 2017

Lots of parks/villages,towns have ordinance's stating no damaging plant life, etc etc, No digging or removing of dirt/plants etc. Even if they dont and you ask if you can they may tell you no just because they had a negative experience with a detectorist in the past. Look online at your municipalities web site for "Turf Protection" rules or "no digging" rules or general rules of parks and recreational areas. Look THOROUGHLY and read it a few times to make sure you didnt miss anything. I know Monona WI has a rule against it. So does McFarland WI where I live. Its called a "Turf Protection" rule. I still dig in McFarland and have had zero issues with citizens or enforcement officers of any kind. Most of the time they just drive by and wave if I happen to look their way.

If you do get approached while detecting someplace you are unsure of and they tell you its not allowed. Ask them politely if they can tell you the ordinance code so you can pass it along to friends or other hobby persons. Dont act like you're asking so they can PROVE you wrong and them right. Just so you can pass the info along "Like a good citizen".

GKL · Feb 26, 2017

They used to make these (I guess for incognito detecting ?) :laughing:

Metal Detecting Sandals Hammacher Schlemmer.jpg

.......just being funny, don't get in trouble :lol:

Tom_in_CA · Feb 26, 2017

UpStateMike said:
.... I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to understand if there are any issues with people metal detecting in the city and in particular the parks. .....

Sure. That's totally understood, and glad you got a yes. There's a lot of hunters that aren't satisfied with silence on the subject . Ie.: no specific law or rule that said "no metal detecting". They are still worried and still cautious, so they do exactly as you have done. And if they get a yes, ... who can argue with that ?

But the problem is this: What if you got a "no", when no particular rule or law actually said that ? Ie.: because someone at city hall envisioned geeks with shovels, or thought your actions would "harm earthworms" or whatever ?

This happened in my city (and I've read many many posts of the same phenomenon): Someone takes it upon themselves to go ask (can't be too safe after all). They fetch a no. But oddly, it was a city where md'rs had nevr been bothered or had an issue before. Hmmm, ok, does this mean md'ing is now illegal ? Or is it only a "no" for that one individual ?

Do you see where it can go south ? Or worse yet, there's been cases where once this "pressing issue" goes back and forth between various desks, some genius on the city council introduces a proposed "no detecting" rule. Or perhaps now starts booting others in the park . That he previously never mentally registered before. But now, since the matter is on his mind, he sees an md'r and thinks "aha, there's one of them" and starts booting others. I've seen this phenomenon.

As for the yes you got, that's great. Someone else could go into that exact same office tomorrow, speak to someone else, and get a "no". Just depending on how they phrase it, the mood of the person they ask, etc.... To me that just dangerous Russian roulette. If I have any doubts, I would look it up for myself.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 26, 2017

MadTownScoop said:
.... they may tell you no just because they had a negative experience with a detectorist in the past....

Excellent post mad-town-scoop. I too find no shortage of city parks where .... as long as you're not sticking out like a sore thumb, you're typically ignored. So why rock that boat ? Why swat hornet's nests ?

As for the quote above from you: It's common , when some md'r gets a "no", that some city person will say "because of holes" (or "negative experience" or whatever). Then the md'r mutters under his breath "durned that past md'r that must've left holes". Right ?

But in those situations, I'm not so convinced there was ever a case of "holes". I think that this is just the mental connotation that a desk-bound pencil pusher has, when they think of a man with a metal detector. So they just say "no because of holes". It doesn't mean there was ever an actual case of that.

UpStateMike · Feb 27, 2017

Tom_in_CA said:
Sure. That's totally understood, and glad you got a yes. There's a lot of hunters that aren't satisfied with silence on the subject . Ie.: no specific law or rule that said "no metal detecting". They are still worried and still cautious, so they do exactly as you have done. And if they get a yes, ... who can argue with that ?

But the problem is this: What if you got a "no", when no particular rule or law actually said that ? Ie.: because someone at city hall envisioned geeks with shovels, or thought your actions would "harm earthworms" or whatever ?

This happened in my city (and I've read many many posts of the same phenomenon): Someone takes it upon themselves to go ask (can't be too safe after all). They fetch a no. But oddly, it was a city where md'rs had nevr been bothered or had an issue before. Hmmm, ok, does this mean md'ing is now illegal ? Or is it only a "no" for that one individual ?

Do you see where it can go south ? Or worse yet, there's been cases where once this "pressing issue" goes back and forth between various desks, some genius on the city council introduces a proposed "no detecting" rule. Or perhaps now starts booting others in the park . That he previously never mentally registered before. But now, since the matter is on his mind, he sees an md'r and thinks "aha, there's one of them" and starts booting others. I've seen this phenomenon.

As for the yes you got, that's great. Someone else could go into that exact same office tomorrow, speak to someone else, and get a "no". Just depending on how they phrase it, the mood of the person they ask, etc.... To me that just dangerous Russian roulette. If I have any doubts, I would look it up for myself.

Thank you Tom. I think this is the very reason that there's a separate forum section on Permission. I'm gearing up for this year and trying to get enough permissions (private land) as I can. I will be getting the MD permit for the state parks (beach access permit is $10 for 8 various parks in the area). And I do understand that it's better to fly under the radar when possible. It would be extremely valuable to have you or a group of the vets put up a thread that gives the kinds of guidelines you are discussing. I'm learning as much as possible and trying to to find that delicate line between knowing and abiding by the law and being left alone to finding some cool things.

MadTownScoop · Feb 28, 2017

UPSTATE MIKE.. Must be nice to be able to get a permit for state parks. Wisconsin has only one exception to the NO metal detecting on state owned land. Not just state parks but State "owned" period. You may apply for a temporary permit to look for a "specific" item. Anything else you find must be turned into the park office. Once you find the item you were looking for , ie wedding ring, watch, necklace etc etc, the temporary permit is null and void. Kinda sucks but its probably due to someone in the past screwing things up. Ive got a couple spots on state hunting grounds I'd love to hit. Old homestead foundations/ barn foundations etc but cant do it. Dane county Wis does require a metal detecting permit you can get for free. MatMit here on the forums has one. I just sent him the paperwork and he sent it back in and got the card. Good for ?? 3 years I believe. Just have to read the rules (which we all know etiquette wise) and sign your name that you will abide by them.

MadTownScoop · Feb 28, 2017

To me that just dangerous Russian roulette. If I have any doubts said:
Exactly. If you cant find anything, after exhausting a bit of your personal time looking up "ordinance's" for the town/village or city's land that specifically bans the use of metal detectors OR the ban of any form of "digging", then I'd say have at it. Just keep a pouch of all the trash you dig and if approached show them the trash you've collected. Not outright but during the conversation. Some people see the junk you dig, AND keep, and think, "oh, this guy is a good person." because you're digging and properly disposing of trash instead of just tossing it aside or re-burying it. Also. When you can, try to step a bit off to the side or out of your way to pick up trash thats just sitting on the grass. Cans, Paper, Foil etc etc. They may also see that and decide to just leave you alone instead of telling you to leave.? Never know. What they see you do when you are unaware you're being watched can make a world of difference.
GL and HH.

Tom_in_CA · Mar 1, 2017

MadTownScoop said:
.... You may apply for a temporary permit to look for a "specific" item. Anything else you find must be turned into the park office. ......

Ok then, let's say you go to "look for the wedding ring". And .... if you find something else in the process, you have to "turn it in to the park office". Hmmm, so it's just the honor system ? If you find a merc. or a barber, is someone really hovering over you watching to see what else you find ? :?:

MadTownScoop said:
....its probably due to someone in the past screwing things up.....

Or due to repeated FAQ's that cross their desk. From well-meaning md'rs over the years asking "can I metal detect?". Pretty soon the "pressing question" gets a "safe answer". Thus .... sometimes we can be our own worst enemy, eh ?

Tom_in_CA · Mar 1, 2017

MadTownScoop said:
.... OR the ban of any form of "digging", .....

Huh ? Let me save you some time: ALL parks EVERYWHERE, of ANY entity (city, county, state, fed.) are going to have a "form" of prohibition of that sort. If it doesn't use the specific word "dig", it'll be in some other form. Like "alter", "deface", or whatever.

I do not construe any such thing to apply to us. If you leave no trace (covered your hole and left no marks) , then presto: You haven't alterED or defacED anything. Right ? And I would also apply the same logic to dig vs dug (as those also are simply present tense vs past tense, the same as alter vs altered).

JMHO.

GKL · Mar 1, 2017

Tom_in_CA said:
Or due to repeated FAQ's that cross their desk. From well-meaning md'rs over the years asking "can I metal detect?". Pretty soon the "pressing question" gets a "safe answer". Thus .... sometimes we can be our own worst enemy, eh ?

......I do not construe any such thing to apply to us. If you leave no trace (covered your hole and left no marks) , then presto: You haven't alterED or defacED anything.

.....good point !

I think sometimes the laws are written in such a generalized way that while they might not specifically prohibit metal detecting, they could be used against metal detecting IF they started getting complaints about unfilled holes.

While many places might not have a problem with metal detecting if there are no complaints, they might not want to go on the record as giving a clear cut endorsement that it is okay.

So I would think as long as there are not any "no detecting" signs or laws specifically saying "no metal detecting", I would not ask and just detect, being sure to refill your holes and not giving anyone reason to make a complaint.

Tom_in_CA · Mar 1, 2017

GKL said:
...... they could be used against metal detecting IF they started getting complaints ....

Bingo! This is like a LOT of things in life: Whether or not you swat hornets nests or not. NOT an issue "trying to get that hornet to love you". If you're not bothering anyone, and ignored, then SO BE IT. No need to go looking for "express sanctions" from bored bureaucrats poised to give "the safe answer".

Martin_V3i · Mar 1, 2017

I was hunting a local park yesterday, it has three baseball fields which had recently been under maintenaince. New rye grass, looked nice. I wasn't gonna hit them, hardly ever do except in old delapidated fields.

A park official stopped and said they didn't have a problem with what I was doing, but please stay off of the ball fields. They'd apparently found some detector recently tearing up the fields. We talked a while and I got suggestions for spots in different parts of the park I'd never considered. She said her home was built back in the late 1800s and they had bought a metal detector and found some nice relics themselves.

If you are considerate, take care in digs and not go hog wild in nicely groomed areas looking for lost high school rings, you'll be ok. Btw, I was packing my 31" Sampson...not a sideways glance or mention was made.

Just use common sense and dig as neat as possible.

GKL · Mar 1, 2017

Martin_V3i said:
I was hunting a local park yesterday, it has three baseball fields which had recently been under maintenaince. New rye grass, looked nice. I wasn't gonna hit them, hardly ever do except in old delapidated fields.

A park official stopped and said they didn't have a problem with what I was doing, but please stay off of the ball fields. They'd apparently found some detector recently tearing up the fields. We talked a while and I got suggestions for spots in different parts of the park I'd never considered. She said her home was built back in the late 1800s and they had bought a metal detector and found some nice relics themselves.

If you are considerate, take care in digs and not go hog wild in nicely groomed areas looking for lost high school rings, you'll be ok. Btw, I was packing my 31" Sampson...not a sideways glance or mention was made.

Just use common sense and dig as neat as possible.

Good points !

......what is a very nice added help is when any of the park officials themselves are into detecting and can relate to the hobby ! :yes:

No digging parks

UpStateMike

Full Member

MadTownScoop

Elite Member

GKL

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

UpStateMike

Full Member

MadTownScoop

Elite Member

MadTownScoop

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

GKL

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member

Martin_V3i

Elite Member

GKL

Similar threads