Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Public Property Permission?

H

HiOldSilver

Junior Member
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
74
Location
Illinois Wisconsin Lake Michigan border
Hello fellow hobbyists :)

First, let me say that I really enjoy this hobby and your fine forum here, and it saddens me that I don't have more time in my busy schedule to enjoy both more.

I like to read this section for ideas about the types of permissions I should seek. But I also see people ask for permission to hunt public land and I get confused and frustrated.

Maybe it's my age , mid/late 40s, or my upbringing or something unknown to me but, why would anyone ask to hunt public land?! We don't ask permission to swim at a public beach nor ask permission to drive on public roads. These are legal actions in legal places. Unlike legal actions that are illegal in public, target shooting comes to mind. Follow my train of thought?

This whole idea of asking permission to MD public land gives me the vision that my 11 year old daughter and my innocent, angelic wife cutting a briefly temporary tea-cup sized HOLE at the park somehow makes them/us into criminal immoral felons just blows my mind. I said it before and it's worth repeating again, MD'ing is a WHOLESOME FAMILY PASS TIME! No ifs, ands, or buts about it! I have never broken any laws, criminal or civil nor has my family. And guess what, we don't need permission to NOT break laws on public land when we MD as a family. I'm no bible thumper but I ask for forgiveness for all of those worms we disturb but I don't ask for forgiveness for enjoying my family as we MD LEGALLY on my/our tax-paid public property. Folks, don't be guilted into thinking you are doing something immoral, illegal, or wrong, because you are not. You can't be cited or arrested for something LEGAL. God bless our LEOs and service people, Lord knows they are busy with ISIS and riots, etc....they don't care about law-abiding MDers and their families! Trust me, I know, soon enough I'll retire. This is still a free country, not a dictatorial fascist's country.

In short, get out there as soon as you can, in fact, run out there with or without your family and enjoy the short time we are given to MD. You don't need permission for legal actions in legal places. Don't MD where is says not to and don't butcher the ground and leave it a mess. Use your head and good judgement, good people make good decisions and you'll be just fine. Have confidence in your personal freedom and liberty!

HOS
 
I know some public ares needs either permits an/or permission. Most of this is second hand info, but I know Dane county requires a permit as does the public ares in Prairie du Chein.

I hear people talk about hunting an public areas that do require written permission.

Man, I got to say I love your username!
 
Big Treble said:
I know some public ares needs either permits an/or permission. Most of this is second hand info, but I know Dane county requires a permit as does the public ares in Prairie du Chein.

I hear people talk about hunting an public areas that do require written permission.

Man, I got to say I love your username!
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Thank you for your kind words regarding the username :) Always liked that old TV show and the simpler time it reminds me of.

Yes, check your local laws, and go MD! 99% of The States, counties, cities, villages, and townships are a, GO, for MDing.
 
HiOldSilver said:
..... why would anyone ask to hunt public land?! We don't ask permission to swim at a public beach nor ask permission to drive on public roads. These are legal actions in legal places. Unlike legal actions that are illegal in public, target shooting comes to mind. Follow my train of thought?.....
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HiOldSilver, this subject comes up often. You're right: From reading some people's posts, you realize they are waltzing into various city halls and park kiosks asking permission. Or maybe not "permission" per-se, but perhaps just asking "Is metal detecting allowed here?" type phrasing. But even the latter phrasing subjects the inquirer to arbitrary decision whims. Because the pencil-pusher can simply answer: "no, because we think it harms earthworms". Or "no, because rules forbid harvest/take/remove". And of course they might simply imagine geeks with shovels leaving holes, so they give the "easy answer" of : "no you can't".

All the while, a specific "no md'ing" rule might never have existed ! Only ancillary verbiage that , if you squinted real hard, someone could say applies. :roll: And if that happened, I'm of the opinion that the it's entirely possible that the matter never crossed the mind of the person you're asking, nor ever would have (till your "pressing question" came across their desk for their "princely approval"). Eg.: if they'd have just been passing by, they might have never given you a 2nd glance.

So the answer to your question of "why do people ask then?", is because they're skittish and worry that someone might gripe. Afterall, let's be honest: A man with a detector conjurs up images, to some busy-bodies, that "you might be about to leave a hole". So the skittish people think that by asking ahead of time, they can avoid this scenario. But in actual reality, it often just ACCELERATES the vicious circle, by simply soliciting "safe answers", where it was entirely possible no one ever cared (till you asked). And now that this question is fresh in their mind, guess what happens the next time they see an md'r ? They think "aha! there's one of THEM" and start booting others. Stories of such "scrams" get posted, thus causing even more people to grovel wherever they come to. See the vicious circle of self-fulfilling loop ?

HiOldSilver said:
.....Yes, check your local laws, and go MD! 99% of The States, counties, cities, villages, and townships are a, GO, for MDing.
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This ^ ^ Check to see if there's any specific "No MD'ing rule or law". By looking it up FOR YOURSELF. If nothing says "no md'ing", then presto, it's not prohibited. :roll:

And no, I do not construe ancillary verbiage (alter, deface, take, remove, etc...) to apply. If someone thinks otherwise, they're welcome to come alert me. But I will choose low traffic times to avoid such lookie lous. Like nose-picking: not necessarily illegal, but you STILL choose discreet times to avoid offending squeamish folk
 
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Big Treble said:
I know some public ares needs either permits an/or permission. Most of this is second hand info, but I know Dane county requires a permit as does the public ares in Prairie du Chein.

I hear people talk about hunting an public areas that do require written permission....
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Big Treble's assertions are another answer as to "why do people ask to md public areas?". Because in a post like his, where he alludes to "certain places require a permit" or "certain places require permission" simply cause the following chain reaction:

The reader of such a statement will think "aha! then it's my duty to inquire wherever I go, to make sure that the place I'm about to go isn't one of those places that has a permit [or 'requires permission']" .

But I have always found rationale rather circular. Because of the following reasons:

a) There are VERY FEW places in the USA that EVER dreamed up a "permit" for their city or county parks. For example, in the entire state of CA, I can think of only 2 cities, and a single county's park system, that ever dreamed up and implemented a "metal detecting permit". And even in those, you'd have to try REAL HARD to ever get carded for it. But strangely, the minute a SINGLE city ever dreamed up such a thing (no matter how remote and far away), the skittish person thinks "aha! I better check to see if there's permits where ever I go"

b) But why can't the skittish person look it up for himself ? Certainly if a "permit" exists, it will be in the rules of use for the park. Eg.: on a list of permits available. So all he has to do (if he REALLY feels the need to talk to a live person), is simply ask to see all the rules of the park (in printed form), and/or "all the permits available for park use". Ie.: group permit, fishing permit, camping permit, etc..... If a "metal detecting" permit is not on that list, PRESTO, there IS NO "permit" for md'ing. No need to wonder further, eh ?

c) If someone (as big treble does here) alludes to places that "require permission", I question the premise of that. Often time what they are alluding to, is commentary that sometimes accompany's some pencil pushers answer to a previous inquiry. So the pencil pusher says "inquire at each kiosk you come to" or "... with permission from the park manager", etc....

On the surface, that appears to bolster what Big Treble is saying. But if you dig deeper, NO WHERE DOES the rules/laws actually say that. (other than the bureaucrat whom you just asked). So I'm of the opinion that such sayings are more along the lines of the notion that, yes, the duly appointed overseers of any individual park can indeed regulate the use of their park. Eg.: they can come say "turn your boombox volume down", or "I think your detector bothers the earthworms", etc....

So unless I see in actual written rules/laws that "you must get our permission" (and not just commentary that got passed out by someone's inquiry), I do not consider permission to be necessary. It would be no different than if you asked "can I skip stones on the pond?" or "Can I fly a kite" or "can I breathe?". They might say "yes, and thankyou for asking". But does that mean their "permission" was necessary before you could do those things ? No.
 
I agree, it's settled.

Paranoia will destroy ya'.

Tom, we give ourselves permission, and the Constitution gives us permission to do Legal things. There's no reason to think more into it!


I agree with your thoughts. Remember being a kid and climbing trees? Ask any mom if it's against the law and she will say,"yes,son" ;) How did he ever survive riding bicycles without helmets? Lol. Paranoia, I tell you.

Folks, enjoy life, it's not so scary. You are doing nothing illegal, immoral, inappropriate, sully, etc. Get your wives and kids off facebook and video games and get them out MDing. It's good for the body, heart, and soul.

Can't repeat it enough, IT'S AS LEGAL AS WALKING A DOG! No need to ask anyone, anything. People don't cork their dog's butts! Clean up afterwards (your plug and dogs poop) and you're good to go! Unless you think you should call your mayor and ask if your dog can poop in the park? Silly, but same ridiculous line of thought.

I refuse to have someone stop me from having a good time when I'm not breaking the law. If you don't like screaming kids, YOU leave the amusement park.

HOS
 
Tom

We were posting at the same time. Ha. All this permission asking is just paranoia. It's simple, check state and local regs, if nothing about MDing, its legal, therefore permission. I check for signs when I enter a park, they always say have fun, and MDing is fun to me.....permission. Seriously though, I have yet to see one single sign prohibiting MDing.

I believe all historical sights are prohibited and National Parks. Short of that, I look for specific signs.

If others feel the need to ask for permission until refused or denied it, so be it. Just don't ruin my fun, because if there's no sign, I'm swinging!

HOS
 
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I like this guy! ^^^ What do they say? "90% of success in Life is just showing up?" Just show up and hunt until somebody tells you you cant..then, its a simple matter of semantics, throwing chaff, and other avenues of creative behavior...:laughing::laughing:
Mud
 
Mud-puppy, I like this guy too ! Although I admit it's a bee-in-my-bonnet topic, and he happens to side with my/our sentiments, ha !

HiOldSilver said:
.... I have yet to see one single sign prohibiting MDing....
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Well, let's clear something up: It *is* possible a rule exists, that doesn't happen to be "on the wooden sign" at the park entrance. In the same way you don't find a sign forbidding nudity, etc... But still though , if there WERE a "rule" or "law", it would be written somewhere (even if not on a sign). And as such, if someone is still skittish, that can be looked up. No laws are "secret" afterall. That's why the internet was invented afterall, is so you could look up the governing muni. laws, codes, etc.... Eg.: no fireworks, dogs on leash, nudity forbidden, etc.... And, if nothing says "no md'ing", then presto, it's not forbidden.

HiOldSilver said:
.... I believe all historical sights are prohibited and National Parks....
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If md'rs just used the rule of thumb to avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments (and perhaps national parks), then 99% of their worries would be abated. But why oh why oh why some md'rs think they need to be worried about run-of-mill city parks, routine innocuous beaches, deserts in the middle of nowhere, etc.... I don't know .

HiOldSilver said:
.... If others feel the need to ask for permission until refused or denied it, so be it. Just don't ruin my fun, ...
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Actually, there's been cases of persons "seeking permission" and asking "can I?" or "seeking clarifications", that actually ended up creating MORE restrictions , by the time they were done. Ie.: the "no" they received becoming a defacto rule (or policy or whatever you want to call it) from then on out. And I even heard of one city that, upon fielding the question, .... guess what came up at the next city council meeting as a proposed rule ? :?:
 
I think some people find comfort in hearing "No!". Other than someone who is ignorant (the true meaning) about detecting or just new to it, I believe the majority of people are just lazy and don't want to sort through the ordinances/regulations themselves and prefer someone to just tell them what they can/can't do whether that person is right or wrong. These same people sometimes have been assured 100 times that it's okay and to go ahead, only to have 1 misinformed person challenge it and then they are all questions again.

Being told "no" means to them no further investigation is needed (lazyness again) therefore no more more effort is necessary. Then they can pass on their newly acquired knowledge onto others "Hey, you can't do that...", no matter how incorrect they may be, because it makes them feel just and right, and a part of something.

We all know someone like this, it may even be us sometimes, makes a mess of their own life when making decisions for themselves without someone of "authority" guiding and holding their hand, having to walk them through it. Being told constantly, let me help you with that (meaning you're not smart or good enough to handle it alone) or "we" will take care of that for you (meaning "we" need to limit your power as an individual because "we select elites" or "we as a society" know what's best for you). The majority of people like to feel a part of something, even if that of which is crushing your own self worth.

There is comfort in "No!", but sadly many are scared of the freedoms that come with a "Yes!".
 
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MrNovice said:
I think some people find comfort in hearing "No!". ....
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Perhaps. Because then in their mind's eyes, the "no" is refreshing because: "Afterall, I could have been arrested if I'd just assumed it was ok", ... "hence it was a good thing I asked". So they get comfort in either a "no" or a "yes" either one, because either one seems to bolster their inferred notion that: "See, it was a good thing I asked"

MrNovice said:
.... I believe the majority of people are just lazy and don't want to sort through the ordinances/regulations themselves and prefer someone to just tell them what they can/can't do ....
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Well, perhaps not "lazy". But instead grounded in the fear that: Even though there may not be a specific prohibition, yet someone might gripe that it falls afoul of some ancillary wording. And hey, "how else am I supposed to know unless I ask?" But then they just put themselves in the bullseye of the "safe answer" psychology, don't they ?

None of this gaurantees that, granted ... "someone might gripe". But sheesk, can't we "grow a set" and take that chance? Just as someone might flip you off when you're driving 'cuz they didn't like your lane change. Ok, so what ? So once in awhile you gotta give lip service and move on. So what ? We have to grow up and realize we're not going to get every last person on earth to "love metal detecting". So sometimes it's better just to avoid those few lone individuals. Rather than spend our lives going around trying to get those few rare person's princely blessings.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Big Treble's assertions are another answer as to "why do people ask to md public areas?". Because in a post like his, where he alludes to "certain places require a permit" or "certain places require permission" simply cause the following chain reaction:

The reader of such a statement will think "aha! then it's my duty to inquire wherever I go, to make sure that the place I'm about to go isn't one of those places that has a permit [or 'requires permission']" .

But I have always found rationale rather circular. Because of the following reasons:

a) There are VERY FEW places in the USA that EVER dreamed up a "permit" for their city or county parks. For example, in the entire state of CA, I can think of only 2 cities, and a single county's park system, that ever dreamed up and implemented a "metal detecting permit". And even in those, you'd have to try REAL HARD to ever get carded for it. But strangely, the minute a SINGLE city ever dreamed up such a thing (no matter how remote and far away), the skittish person thinks "aha! I better check to see if there's permits where ever I go"

b) But why can't the skittish person look it up for himself ? Certainly if a "permit" exists, it will be in the rules of use for the park. Eg.: on a list of permits available. So all he has to do (if he REALLY feels the need to talk to a live person), is simply ask to see all the rules of the park (in printed form), and/or "all the permits available for park use". Ie.: group permit, fishing permit, camping permit, etc..... If a "metal detecting" permit is not on that list, PRESTO, there IS NO "permit" for md'ing. No need to wonder further, eh ?

c) If someone (as big treble does here) alludes to places that "require permission", I question the premise of that. Often time what they are alluding to, is commentary that sometimes accompany's some pencil pushers answer to a previous inquiry. So the pencil pusher says "inquire at each kiosk you come to" or "... with permission from the park manager", etc....

On the surface, that appears to bolster what Big Treble is saying. But if you dig deeper, NO WHERE DOES the rules/laws actually say that. (other than the bureaucrat whom you just asked). So I'm of the opinion that such sayings are more along the lines of the notion that, yes, the duly appointed overseers of any individual park can indeed regulate the use of their park. Eg.: they can come say "turn your boombox volume down", or "I think your detector bothers the earthworms", etc....

So unless I see in actual written rules/laws that "you must get our permission" (and not just commentary that got passed out by someone's inquiry), I do not consider permission to be necessary. It would be no different than if you asked "can I skip stones on the pond?" or "Can I fly a kite" or "can I breathe?". They might say "yes, and thankyou for asking". But does that mean their "permission" was necessary before you could do those things ? No.
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HOS,

I suppose at this time, you have two options to either go to the cities website and type "metal detecting" in their website to find the permits Such as the ones I spoke of;

http://www.prairieduchien.info/DEPARTMENTS/2014-09-10-METALDETECTIONPERMIT.pdf

https://danedocs.countyofdane.com/pdf/lwrd/parks/Parks_Fee_Schedule.pdf

Or simply have at it and if you ever get static, tell them the FMDF resident permissions hall monitor Tom_in_CA said it's ok.

I'm not and never suggested you ask every park attendant for their blessings, just do a bit of research, in the larger areas prior to digging. If it's a potential issue it should be on their online bylaws.
 
But when giving this info to newbies you should also be aware that they NEED TO CHECK THE LAW FIRST , both local , state , and federal. Lack of posted signs or local codes don't necessarily mean you are not breaking the law. Sometimes state or federal law covers what local laws don't and that's what we should be aware of. Suggesting to a newbie that its ok as long as there is no local ordinance against it can really ruin someones day if not much more. Most of us know we can play dumb and usually be ok , just get warned and told to leave..... but that's careless and reckless if we have not actually checked into every possible source for pertaining laws , and its just as careless to suggest someone else to possibly break the law. Some of you seem to forget that those just starting in this hobby are not as savvy or aware of certain things as those seasoned among us are , and they might not be as willing to take chances either. State or federal law may cover what local law does not ,.....whether it is posted locally or not. Don't go in blind , cover your bases thoroughly , THEN decide whether to hunt the area. If you are ok with taking chances that's fine , but don't suggest others do it. This is just a loose example , but just because there are no signs in the grocery store saying you cant shoplift that does not mean it must be ok for you to do so..... that law is covered elsewhere. A guy detecting a local public property just because there is no local law against it may not be aware that it is some historic site.....or a site overseen by state or federal agency who has their own rules banning detecting.....some promising severe fines...... but he wont know about that because someone told him if there is no sign posted then he will be ok. Let me ask you ,.....did you give good advice ? If you choose to hunt there that's on you , but telling someone else to do it could be dangerous. I know of more than one public recreation/management area that either used to be or still is ( part time ) a military practice area for bombing/ordinance. The signs posted....last I checked....do not locally mention metal detecting " specifically " , but the federal laws on record forbid it. Suffice it to say , detecting there could potentially be a " BLAST " :) ..... but if you only checked most local laws/signs and you were unaware of the danger ,...... you could be in trouble like you have never seen before. These are examples , there are plenty of other gray areas out there that could potentially put an end to your fun in a heartbeat if you play games with the law or rely on bad advice.
 
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Tom and Mud Puppy, thank you for your kind words, sirs. I feel like one of the gang. :good:

Big Treble, thank you for posting the links. Clearly not places to MD! A check of state and county laws should bring Dane County into view as needing a permit. I would buy it or avoid the area. This County falls into the 1%. Surely, the County informs newbies of this regulation and asks to to pay if the would like to continue MDing. No harm, no foul. My family and I road trip and I/we MD at random parks in random towns/States and have never been stopped. A check of State and County/local laws is up to the individual, but to MD public property, I'll never do it! Historical Sites and National Parks being the exception.

OhioChris, one can check State and County laws, but if the public area doesn't have a sign, go detect. This is not bad advice! It's perfectly good advice! Even a newbie knows every emoji, sign, and symbol for everything nowadays, right? There are no-gun signs, no smoking signs, no parking signs, no littering signs, and a million more, right? After all of this REGULATORT CONDITIONING, if they didn't want you to MD, there would be a NO MDing sign. Sir, you are doing what I suggested against, you are reading more into it. I gave sound advice and you are the only one who will not find silver at the same park as the people who will follow it. Remember, less than 1% of public areas dissuade MDIng. As stated above, a newbie should know Historical Sites and National Parks are off limits. Other than that, look for signs. Or go the extra step and check County laws.

HOS
 
HiOldSilver said:
OhioChris, one can check State and County laws, but if the public area doesn't have a sign, go detect. This is not bad advice! It's perfectly good advice! Even a newbie knows every emoji, sign, and symbol for everything nowadays, right? There are no-gun signs, no smoking signs, no parking signs, no littering signs, and a million more, right? After all of this REGULATORT CONDITIONING, if they didn't want you to MD, there would be a NO MDing sign. Sir, you are doing what I suggested against, you are reading more into it. I gave sound advice and you are the only one who will not find silver at the same park as the people who will follow it. Remember, less than 1% of public areas dissuade MDIng. As stated above, a newbie should know Historical Sites and National Parks are off limits. Other than that, look for signs. Or go the extra step and check County laws.

HOS
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Sure ! Heck , even if it is posted no detecting you can hunt it....just not legally.

If no sign and no " local " laws against it you can hunt it ,......but if there happens to be a state , federal , or in some cases even county prohibition , that covers the site of interest then you are still breaking the law , whether its posted locally or not. You can usually weasel out of trouble citing you didn't know....or there was no sign ,....but that don't mean you aren't doing something illegal. Afterall the law of the land says ignorance is no defense. Whether its ethical or not to play dumb and take chances is a topic that will rage on here probably for as long as this website exists and that is not what I am addressing. But you are required to know the laws pertaining to your activities , the key here is knowledge of those laws and that is my point. As an example I posted earlier illustrates , a local public site may not necessarily have to be posted " specifically " in order to be off limits to detecting , someone would have to go to the federal regulations to get the real story. So a blanket statement of " if there is no sign then its ok " should be given with discretion , and not to newbies without warning to make sure the area does not fall under multiple jurisdictions or offices. We can discuss whether ambiguous laws or jurisdictions are fair or binding until we wear out our keyboards , but that dont change anything ,......or cover the fact that we should do more research than checking for a sign. What you do is up to you , but what you advise others to do should come with a little more discretion.

If you drive 68 on the freeway in a 65 zone that don't mean it isn't careless to recommend your 17 year old daughter to do it.

My point in all of this is not that you cant detect a site that has no signs without permission. My point is that you don't know the site in question , neither does the person you are advising to hunt it if they haven't been diligent enough with their research. Not posted don't always mean legal , which means bad advice for newbies.
 
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ohiochris said:
But when giving this info to newbies you should also be aware that they NEED TO CHECK THE LAW FIRST .....
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So long as that's not construed to mean: "Go ask can I?" A person can become "aware of the law" by looking it up for themselves .

ohiochris said:
...... Sometimes state or federal law covers what local laws don't and that's what we should be aware of. ....
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Uh... on the contrary (in-so-far as it pertains to the matter of metal detecting anyhow). Yes for things like murder, rape, etc... But for things like metal detecting: Federal park/land law does not necessarily subrogate down to state park land. And Fed & State park/land rules don't necessarily subrogate down to county level . And county level doesn't necessarily subrogate down to city land level. Just because the lesser/smaller entity is a sub-part of the larger entity, does not mean that the bigger entity's rules subrogate downwards.

For example: Rules of park usage (or silence on various subjects) DIFFER ALL THE TIME from one park to another. Eg.: one park allows over-night camping, whereas another doesn't. And perhaps a 3rd is simply silent on the subject. Same for allowance or disallowance of Firewalks, dogs on leash, off-road vehicles, etc.. etc... Thus whatever you read re.: detecting on the state parks level in your state, has no bearing on county or city parks in your state. And so forth.
 
I do agree with not asking permission on public land ,....except for curb strips in front of occupied homes , we would appreciate others respecting us by asking in that case , so the same courtesy applies in reverse. Don't ask for permission on public property , but don't assume the lack of a sign means you are clear of the law. I also have to say its unwise to advise others to " just do it " without knowing the site in question personally , you are really not sure what you are telling them to do.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
So long as that's not construed to mean: "Go ask can I?" A person can become "aware of the law" by looking it up for themselves .



Uh... on the contrary (in-so-far as it pertains to the matter of metal detecting anyhow). Yes for things like murder, rape, etc... But for things like metal detecting: Federal park/land law does not necessarily subrogate down to state park land. And Fed & State park/land rules don't necessarily subrogate down to county level . And county level doesn't necessarily subrogate down to city land level. Just because the lesser/smaller entity is a sub-part of the larger entity, does not mean that the bigger entity's rules subrogate downwards.

For example: Rules of park usage (or silence on various subjects) DIFFER ALL THE TIME from one park to another. Eg.: one park allows over-night camping, whereas another doesn't. And perhaps a 3rd is simply silent on the subject. Same for allowance or disallowance of Firewalks, dogs on leash, off-road vehicles, etc.. etc... Thus whatever you read re.: detecting on the state parks level in your state, has no bearing on county or city parks in your state. And so forth.
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Most of the time , no , federal/state .....land/law does not necessarily subrogate down state park land or city level , but I do know of some cases where they do. Does the feller handing out advice on the internet , telling people to " just do it " know which they are ?


I know of public places maintained by the city , owned by the state , and overseen on some level by the federal government. Lack of a sign on the premises and no " specific " prohibition on the city website mean nothing at all , ....one would be wise to check with all three before going in there willy nilly with a metal detector because they didn't see a sign at the entrance.

My point is , telling someone to " just do it " without knowing the site in question personally may in some cases be bad advice , especially if the advice is given to the inexperienced. Responsible discretion may not be a bad idea.
 
OhioChris

We are so close to agreement! Except that, Federal law will never be more stringent than Local or County law. There is no Federal ban in any one State for any reason. If a township allows MDing at a local park, surely a Fedearl law wouldn't exist for that local park! Hence my stating, Historical Sites and National Parks. The Feds don't care about MDIng in your town, just Historical areas and National Parks where their jurisdiction lies. Don't dig here! Now we move to State and County regs, States will control State Parks and beaches and the vast majority allow MDing. State does not control County or city public land. Of all jurisdictions, County allows the most public land to MD, some DNR land is not MD friendly. Frankly, County doesn't care. Lastly, your local jurisdiction, look-up your Municipal Code and if MDing is allowed, then there are no signs. If there are signs, don't dig. State Police cannot enforce State Law off State property. State Police will not enforce anything if your local jurisdiction allows it, aka MDing. Nor do they want to.

I'm not feeding newbies falsehoods and buffalo chips, I just understand the Law a bit better than you. No offense intended. I have stated "Public Land" all along this thread, not Federal or State. If someone digs at Lincoln's tomb, the WW2 memorial, a National Park, historical Site, Indian burial ground, or a cemetery, no amount of laws can help stupid. I'm sure you'll agree that commence sense cannot be taught. But the odds of stopping at a city park that MDing isn't allowed is very rare! The rare ones charge an annual fee $5-$10 for the permit. Violating this city law is an ordinance violation, a $25-$50 non-criminal citation. And you can dispute this citation, and win the trial, if no signs are posted. Did you ever get a parking ticket on a non-posted street? But, yes, you are a free American to MD in public places. Don't be their buzzkill, it's wholesome and legal in 99% of American public land. This is the fun train, get on board ;)

Be courteous, don't dig your neighbor's yard or the front strip of grass. Although it's legal, it's not neighborly. But can you dig it, of course!

HOS
 
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