Guilty.
- Thread starter ScubaDetective
- Start date
Skwerly
Elite Member
lol, reminds me of the detectorists show...
GKL
Forum Supporter
Wow ! 
While they might not agree with that law they still need to follow the law and try to get support in changing the law to be more favorable to those who spend the time and effort to find such treasures.
I don't know exactly how that law works, but does it at least allow for a fair compensation to those that find it and turn it in ?
I would hope that finders of such treasures get more than a simple "thank you - now go find some clad to buy more batteries to find us more treasure"
While they might not agree with that law they still need to follow the law and try to get support in changing the law to be more favorable to those who spend the time and effort to find such treasures.
I don't know exactly how that law works, but does it at least allow for a fair compensation to those that find it and turn it in ?
I would hope that finders of such treasures get more than a simple "thank you - now go find some clad to buy more batteries to find us more treasure"
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achaios
Forum Supporter
In this case, didn't they defraud the land owner?
While I would prefer neither, I would definitely take UK treasure laws over Italy's.
-- Tom (not in CA)
Tom_in_CA
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Then maybe I didn't read the article closely enough. I thought the "crime" was failing to alert the crown.
Yes: If the theft was a failure to abide by a split with the land-owner, then yes: That can happen here in the USA too. That would be a civil matter between 2 individuals. As-to-how they agree to splits.
But if the matter involves the crown (ie.: their fair-share and how-they-think it's valued, etc....) then no : Much better that it's left to private property owners to decide on. If someone is "hell-bent" on breaking a contract/agreement, then .... no amount of added "laws" change that.
In any event, the mere fact that there's been a failure to report (to the crown or to the land-owner) over there, simply shows that their UK law system is not some sort of "cat's meow" that solves all archie/legal stuff. If anything : The less that the govt. and archies think of us : The better.
Their Country, their Laws Tom!
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
I'm glad we rebelled. No crown.
We have the IRS though.
We have the IRS though.
FliesOnly
Senior Member
I guess I'm having a hard time trying to under stand the vitriol I so often see on this forum against history and archeologists. Is it really only about money for some of you? You really could not care less about the historical significance of a find like the one mentioned in this thread?
Now, I do think that the individuals who find such historical artifacts should be fairly compensated (and to be honest, I really have no idea if they do such a thing over there), but I also really have no issues with the requirement that such "finds" need to be reported to the proper authorities. History matters, and we can learn a lot about our early ancestors with the information gleaned from such discoveries.
Now, I do think that the individuals who find such historical artifacts should be fairly compensated (and to be honest, I really have no idea if they do such a thing over there), but I also really have no issues with the requirement that such "finds" need to be reported to the proper authorities. History matters, and we can learn a lot about our early ancestors with the information gleaned from such discoveries.
Tom_in_CA
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Correct. That's what I was saying . Ie.: 'Better there than here'.
Because some USA md'rs think that their system (of declaring all treasure for govt. to have-their-hands-in), is some sort of "better system". Which it isn't. Based in an entirely different land/wealth system.
Tom_in_CA
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Flies only, No one here has anything against preserving and show-casing cool historical objects. USA md'rs perpetually flood museums with donations. And museums are stacked-so-full that they most-often say 'no thank you' to yet-more-donations. I docent at several museums, so I'm very familiar with the process.
As for the "archaeologists" part of your question, it's not that md'rs have anything against archies. It's that archies (well ... the "purist" types anyhow) have something against md'rs. If it wasn't for their disgust of all md'ing, then ... md'rs would RUSH to befriend archies. However, this is not the relationship. And invariably, the more our hobby is brought up to them (ie.: the more they think of us), the worse things tend to get. Ie.: Just gives them more reason to "bristle" at the thought.
So it's not that we "dislike archies". It's that they 'dislike us' .
Zappato
Junior Member
Any "treasure" found in the UK technically belongs to the Crown. The finder has a legal obligation to report such finds. The items are valued and when a museum buys them, the money is split between the finder and the landowner.
As a Brit, I approve of this system, and it ensures that important finds can be followed up by proper archaeological excavations, adding to our understanding of our history. Finds also are more likely to end up in a museum for everyone to enjoy.
If the archaeological dig brings up additional items, they would likely be considered part of the same find and the money from the sale would be split between the finder and the landowner.
Yep, it's UK law. They should have followed it. By being greedy, they ended up with a criminal record and no money or glory from the find.
As a Brit, I approve of this system, and it ensures that important finds can be followed up by proper archaeological excavations, adding to our understanding of our history. Finds also are more likely to end up in a museum for everyone to enjoy.
If the archaeological dig brings up additional items, they would likely be considered part of the same find and the money from the sale would be split between the finder and the landowner.
Yep, it's UK law. They should have followed it. By being greedy, they ended up with a criminal record and no money or glory from the find.
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GKL
Forum Supporter
That sounds fair considering that law (not that I'd want that law here), thanks for clarifying that, I was hoping the finder was offered more than just a "thank you"
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FreeBirdTim
Elite Member
This is what riles us up here in the USA. To say "the Crown" owns everything dug up is preposterous. Your land, your coins and relics. What gives them the right to grab anything off of private land? Because the country is run as an archaic monarchy? You're not really free if the government can grab your possessions and tell you how much they're going to give you for the find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE
GKL
Forum Supporter
Not meant to get political, but technically speaking, as long as there are property taxes, even we in the U.S. don't really own our land outright even if it is paid for, because if you don't pay your yearly property taxes (effectively "rent") then you could lose your property.
(I agree though that what is on our own private land should be ours)
Tom_in_CA
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And as is-shown in scuba's link : Anyone is capable of violating that. No different than here in the USA, when some sort of "split agreement" is arranged between a private land-owner and an md'r : So too (like in his link) can that be violated. In other words : The added amount of "laws" do not stop dishonest people from being dishonest. Ie.: the UK system does not "solve" anything.
But for some reason, some USA md'rs keep thinking the UK system is the "cat's meow". As if it somehow magically opens up cool-off-limits places, and is some sort of magical hand-holding between purist archies and md'rs. It's not. It's only d/t the wealth-under-the-soil of the UK belongs the crown. Not so in the USA. If you find a cache or oil on your land, presto, it's yours. Why would anyone want any different ?
Zappato
Junior Member
There seem to be quite a few countries where metal detecting is totally band or has severe restrictions: https://md-hunter.com/list-of-countries-where-metal-detecting-is-allowedbanned/
Tom_in_CA
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uh .... And what's your point ? If it's about this thread (the UK system and some dudes who apparently skirted it) then : The UK system (even if/when adopted by the other countries) does nothing to solve it. In fact, to even start SUGGESTING any "hand-holding" between archies and md'rs, in those countries (and the USA, for that matter) will simply/only lead to more RESTRICTIONS. Not "allowances".
And as for your link : I very-much question all those "dire sounding restrictions". You have to ask yourself : How did someone come up with any-such-compendium, IN THE FIRST PLACE ? Easy : He (drum-roll) ASKED. Right ? You pick up the phone, or hit an email button and say "Hi, can I metal detect there ?
Your pressing question gets bandied about from desk to desk, till it lands on the desk of a purist archie. Who .... finds something that he thinks applies. Eg.: "registering devices" and "archaeological sites" and "historic artifacts", and "shipwreck salvor" and "raiding the pyramids", etc..... and presto: Dire sounding news. Eh ? Gee, aren't ya glad ya asked ? Meanwhile : Long-time locals in all those countries are scratching their heads saying "Since when ? " and "says who ?" and "gee, no one ever had a problem" .
The classic cases of "No one cared, till you asked" routines
Yup, it even happens on an international scale. And if anyone ever disputes such silly answers, guess what someone else is sure to do, to "get the matter clarified" ? Drumroll : Ask a bored pencil pusher border bureaucrat. See the vicious self-fulling loop ! ? Aaaaggghhhh
Zappato
Junior Member
uh .... And what's your point ? If it's about this thread (the UK system and some dudes who apparently skirted it) then : The UK system (even if/when adopted by the other countries) does nothing to solve it. In fact, to even start SUGGESTING any "hand-holding" between archies and md'rs, in those countries (and the USA, for that matter) will simply/only lead to more RESTRICTIONS. Not "allowances".
And as for your link : I very-much question all those "dire sounding restrictions". You have to ask yourself : How did someone come up with any-such-compendium, IN THE FIRST PLACE ? Easy : He (drum-roll) ASKED. Right ? You pick up the phone, or hit an email button and say "Hi, can I metal detect there ?
Your pressing question gets bandied about from desk to desk, till it lands on the desk of a purist archie. Who .... finds something that he thinks applies. Eg.: "registering devices" and "archaeological sites" and "historic artifacts", and "shipwreck salvor" and "raiding the pyramids", etc..... and presto: Dire sounding news. Eh ? Gee, aren't ya glad ya asked ? Meanwhile : Long-time locals in all those countries are scratching their heads saying "Since when ? " and "says who ?" and "gee, no one ever had a problem" .
The classic cases of "No one cared, till you asked" routines
Tom, each country has its own laws concerning metal detecting. I think metal detectorists have it good here in the US. I don't detect in other countries, so those those laws affect me. I think the British metal detecting laws are OK for the Brits, but that's my opinion. I'm not asking you or anybody else to change their opinion of what those UK detectorists did and what resulted from their actions. This is the Friendly Metal Detecting Forum, lets keep it that way.
