Whisper signals (What I think I've learned)

cdv · Feb 21, 2013

Since I've retired, I've had a heck of alot of time to finally do what I've wanted to do for a long time.... Metal Detect the beaches..... So with all those hours out there I'm finally able to take the time when things are slow and the finds are few and far between(and they have been lately). Most of my time has been with the Excal II 10" coil and the SOV GT also a 10" coil but I have loads of time on a Sand Shark and a fair amount of time using the CZ-21 also. Since I was weened on beach hunting with the Sand Shark, it was a natural move to using the other three detectors in Pinpoint/Autotune or what everyone calls All Metal. Here is my definition of a Whisper signal and the three things that so far I have found that causes these signals.... Hopefully those with more experience can chime in with other posibilities or causes of those signals....

Whisper signal (my definition): A loss of, or slight up or downscale variation to the steady (or almost steady) threshold tone.

Here are the three things I have found that are the primary causes of whisper signals for me.

1. The electromagnetic field set up by the coil, does not go straight down but also out of the sides of the coil. So some whisper signals are really just because you have yet to get the coil directly over the target but yet is close enough that the field is disrupted (slightly) and sensed by the detector.

2. The target is a deep target and or may be on edge giving a smaller surface area and the field disruption is different than normal.

3. The target is not deep but indeed a really small target. Metal staples, metal sequins off of clothing, tiny rivets, tiny stud earrings, earring backs, etc. (You can laugh but that is why at night I carry my Pinpointer to find those darn little things in the sand)

In no way would I say I know what I'm talking about here, just passing on what I think I have found from experience that may help out others. Please add to this OR feel free to debate this, it can only make me and others better at what we do.... hmmmm maybe that isn't a good idea.... LOL

Half of Cliff Squared
HH
Cliff

CanSlaw · Feb 21, 2013

Cliff, you brought up a good point on nulls for the Excal.

ALL nulls need a second check...what you said about being on the side of the coil and the detector cannot read it is 100% right on. I double and triple check all nulls and it does pay off. Not to long ago with a 2.3 gram ladies 14k ring. Small targets will not blow your headphones off and if they are on the side of the coil will give a null until the detector can ID it.

With the lack of targets in our area, we really have to check and double check any signals hoping the guys in front of us are only digging "good" signals. I know, I am now digging more iffy targets than I ever have, more junk, but at least it is something to dig.

Cfmct · Feb 21, 2013

Whispers for the most part are deep targets... sure sneaker eyelets can give you a quieter tone but I classify whispers are the deep targets... also what I call a threshold drop out or silence spot should be investigated as it could be a super deep target.

cdv · Feb 21, 2013

Cfmct said:
Whispers for the most part are deep targets... sure sneaker eyelets can give you a quieter tone but I classify whispers are the deep targets... also what I call a threshold drop out or silence spot should be investigated as it could be a super deep target.

Sure do agree on the threshold drop outs.....last one for me, I could not pinpoint and just kept scooping. Turned out to be a white gold mens wedding band.

Cliff

rbdigger · Feb 21, 2013

With the Sand Shark I have found that what I call whisper hits are almost always deep targets, unless like you have stated, the item is just off to the edge of the coil. A hit can be very soft then as well. However, I always check a whisper by widening my search area first. If I don't get a stronger signal I know it is a deep target.

I will be getting an Excal II soon, so I have no idea how whispers will pan out with that machine, but I am anxious to find out!

Porsche914 · Feb 21, 2013

You are spot on.... In all metal mode with my old Whites classic sl, I could find both small items and deep items just like you described. I do this dirt digging once everything else has been pulled in discrimination mode. Just flip the switch and listen for the change in tone.

OBN · Feb 21, 2013

Since I've retired, I've had a heck of alot of time to finally do what I've wanted to do for a long time....

Amen, 10 days into mine....A Dream come true...

Some real good tips cdv.......
One of the very first hunters to comeup with this discovery of AM/PP hunting was Govner on FM with the sovereign...Many years ago...

ME, I'm not to up on discriminate whispers with the excal, since I hunt in PP 95% of the time....Only in the PP mode can I say that I'm well versed. Reason, Doc's Treasure Amp. Whispers are no longer whispers...like nugget hunters with the amps on the GPX one can seperate the volume from the threshold.

For me, All metal is a Deeper, Diffused field reaching out from the circumference of the coil..And with the amp there is a unstable area far below everyones hearing abilities, in this unstable area there are dropouts, lots of chatter, interference.......first time I used the Df the threshold of the Df's was just like the Excaliburs, with Doc's Amp.

Over the past 5 years I've been working on the weak link of the excalibur, the koss headphones. And final have come up with a better way. Skullies Speakered headphones, by using the same speakers as the Blackwidows, jolly rodgers, Killer bees, and the Sunray gold pro's, audiosears 2463, the frequency range of these allow for fainter targets to be hear. Along with placement and mounting of the speakers they are a 100% improvement. All 10 sets are sold and I do hope they can hold up to the harsh envorment of saltwater. The first two sets went to a diver..diggingrings..these will be the true test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMnO2JL3VHY

Marty115 · Feb 21, 2013

Cfmct said:
Whispers for the most part are deep targets... sure sneaker eyelets can give you a quieter tone but I classify whispers are the deep targets... also what I call a threshold drop out or silence spot should be investigated as it could be a super deep target.

Ok .. I have had the GT for about 1 year now and only hunt in disc mode, but use PP for targeting only. Talk a little more about threshold drop out and if you could explain what takes place in that. I assume a person is hunting in PP when this happens although I am sure it can happen in disc. I don't want to miss a deep ring! Thanks in advance. Marty

Cfmct · Feb 21, 2013

rbdigger said:
With the Sand Shark I have found that what I call whisper hits are almost always deep targets, unless like you have stated, the item is just off to the edge of the coil. A hit can be very soft then as well. However, I always check a whisper by widening my search area first. If I don't get a stronger signal I know it is a deep target.

I will be getting an Excal II soon, so I have no idea how whispers will pan out with that machine, but I am anxious to find out!

The whispers will be the same...

Cfmct · Feb 21, 2013

Marty115 said:
Ok .. I have had the GT for about 1 year now and only hunt in disc mode, but use PP for targeting only. Talk a little more about threshold drop out and if you could explain what takes place in that. I assume a person is hunting in PP when this happens although I am sure it can happen in disc. I don't want to miss a deep ring! Thanks in advance. Marty

Just like a PI the deepest whispers are a break in the threshold (silence) that are repeatable. Marty... I also only hunt in disc... up here I found disc to be deeper than PP mode.

Franz · Feb 21, 2013

cdv said:
(You can laugh but that is why at night I carry my Pinpointer to find those darn little things in the sand)

Half of Cliff Squared
HH
Cliff

Almost every night hunt, I curse myself for not bringing my pinpointer. And the little light that clips on the brim of my hat is GREEN, so it's he-double hockey sticks trying to find stuff. So I'm definitely not laughing at you.

Marty115 · Feb 21, 2013

Cfmct said:
Just like a PI the deepest whispers are a break in the threshold (silence) that are repeatable. Marty... I also only hunt in disc... up here I found disc to be deeper than PP mode.

Thanks,

I only dug faint whispers (sounds) never the silent areas that are repeatable. That is an important bit of information for me. Always dug the threshold rises or changes in tone never the dropouts. I will incorporate this knowledge on my next outing and hopefully can post the results of digging silence!
Marty

swingin'1266x · Feb 21, 2013

I just checked my book on the Sov GT and it says that "if you search in PP that the ground balance is disabled and the detector can become erratic." That being said how do you guys search in PP without any problem.

Also, it said that "if the target signal seems to have "blanked", but the threshold hasn't changed to a different tone (assuming the threshold switch is selected) it may in fact be a very deep target on the edge of the detection depth."

So far I haven't had this happen because all my targets have responded as should be. However, I have found good targets next to a disc target which is great. I always dig if the signal sounds different than normal. I actually dig all targets because you never know. I hunt in disc because I don't see any reason to hunt in all metal. I don't think I am loosing that much depth. The few times that I have hunted in all metal I just dug more trash and not more good targets.

All the info you guys are saying is great to me since I just received my Sov GT recently and still learning. Thanks for that.

Gold Digger 2 · Feb 21, 2013

all those "iffy", and nulls, run back and forth a time or two,,,,especially when your threshold is running stready and changes,,,,I have gotten some deep targets that way, and some have been good targets,,, :yes:

Ra1der5 · Feb 21, 2013

Great post

THIS post is why I am on this board.

Tell me and I forget.
Teach me and I remember.
Involve me and I learn.

Thank You!

imalookin2 · Feb 22, 2013

swingin'1266x said:
I just checked my book on the Sov GT and it says that "if you search in PP that the ground balance is disabled and the detector can become erratic." That being said how do you guys search in PP without any problem.

If you hunt in DISC mode the ground balance is automatic. If you hunt all metal you must ground balance after you get to the beach zone you want to hunt (wet, water or dry). What they mean is you need to ground balance the AM mode to read the soil or salt or the detector will act erratic. The "Accutrak" all metal (AM) system needs to be balanced so you bob the coil up and down in AM on track until the tone smooths out then switch to fixed if you desire. You can leave it set to track for about 20 feet and switching back to fixed at that time. Fixed they say will get more depth but leaving it in tracked is better if you go in and out of the dry or the water. If you hunt in AM mode you must balance, that is the key. If you hunt in DISC mode you do not.

swingin'1266x · Feb 22, 2013

Thanks, I understand that but what about hunting in pinpoint? I always ground balance when in all metal. How are you able to hunt in pinpoint?

IntoIt · Feb 22, 2013

Cfmct said:
Just like a PI the deepest whispers are a break in the threshold (silence) that are repeatable. Marty... I also only hunt in disc... up here I found disc to be deeper than PP mode.

Maybe that`s the difference in the GT to Excalibur..From what I understand the Excalibur is locked into salt settings on disc. The GT does not have that restriction so sensitivity would be higher in disc..Just a thought.

Terry Soloman · Feb 22, 2013

Fantastic thread! Negative breaks in the threshold (threshold goes silent) are always a deep target with the Sand Shark - in my experience. Targets off to the side of the coil are usually a soft or whisper Positive break.

cdv · Feb 22, 2013

Terry Soloman said:
Fantastic thread! Negative breaks in the threshold (threshold goes silent) are always a deep target with the Sand Shark - in my experience. Targets off to the side of the coil are usually a soft or whisper Positive break.

Terry, I've only been at this for just under 2 years now but until just recently, I could never really afford the time to slow down enough and take the time necessary to really learn what the machine was telling me... I was a weekend warrior and drove 1-2 hours to the nearest good freshwater beach. I wanted signals and couldn't get enough of them. After the first month of retirement and realizing that the vacation wasn't going to end plus the fact there really is an off season not to mention we have an abundance of sand right now too, I have been able to take the time to finally listen to what the machines are telling me. The amazing thing to me is, I can remember hearing these types of signals on the Sand Shark thinking interference or maybe a quirk in the threshold....I just never took the time to investigate!

After all that yada yada yada..... bottom line is the Forum is a great place to learn from others and being winter time, more people have the time to add to it. I have pick pieces of gems from this thread that I plan to check out today.

Cliff

Whisper signals (What I think I've learned)

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