Florida beach detecting question......

Paging Tom.

T-Man said:

Paging Tom.

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haha

John Madill said:

... to the high tide mark but detecting in the water is not allowed......

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"high tide mark" ? If that is to be taken literally, then that disqualifies the wet-sand inter-tidal zone. Ie.: Even if you're there at low tide, you have to stay above where the previous night's high-tide water mark came to. Eh ? Lest you be "below that high tide mark" ? I think they might have meant where the water is . So that you don't go "in the water". As if that's really a rule that anyone quibbles about. Ie.: heaven forbid the ebbing surf came up around your ankles

So this is a shout out to CFMCT : Seeing as how most all the coastline of FL (?) is state beaches (versus Fed or county or city, etc...) then do tell: Do all of you stay above this mark ?

I've seen videos of FL md'rs, and it does indeed seem that they are (gasp) on the inter-tidal zone of wet sand.

John : You might be fairly new to md'ing, so let me save you some time : You can search the web and no doubt find dire-sounding things for probably any patch of land anywhere. There are various websites that pop up, that no-doubt took their clues from archies and non-md'rs, who can make things sound very dire (like the stuff in there about turning in items, yada yada. ) But .... sometimes you have to read-between the lines and find out what the reality is.

Trust me, there's scores of md'r on FL beaches, and I'd venture that all of them are (gasp) going on the wet sand .

No ! No! No ! Say it ain't so ! This is fake news ! All you Floridians stay right where you are. You got the Treasure Coast , South Beach , all sorts of areas where Felix pennies abound. We don't need bus loads of you guys moving out here. And if you do , the central coast has lots of history...and gold ! Plus ,Tom's rates are reasonable. So.Cal rates will now be going up in price. Add to the fact that it's been hunted out , no history , poor tides and surf , and more importantly ; no eye candy. Stay away !

There's not a single Florida State Statute against Metal detecting for gold rings in Florida.

There are State Park rules, Federal Park rules, and National Park rules you should abide by when visiting those specific places though.

Ok..so I’m detecting a ripple trough and this guy comes over to tell me I can’t detect from the high tide line east to 3 miles. I ask where that is written and he doesn’t really say. But.. He says Trust me, I’m an archaeologist.

S1u2r3f4 said:

... But.. He says Trust me, I’m an archaeologist.

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Hey there S1u2r3fr : Is this a true story ? Or are you just joking around ? If this is a true story, then a few observations :

a) I don't doubt that an archie (or anyone for that matter), can scour rule books long and hard, and find SOMETHING that, in-their-mind , says what they're claiming. And this is true for ANY speck of land or ANY beach anywhere.

b) But let's be utterly honest : Archies (well, at least the purist type) HATE md'ers. Thus their opinions are going to be biased and colored, to say the least.

It would be a little like asking a P.E.T.A. offical (People for the Ethical Treatement of Animals, an animal rights wacko group) "Hi, Can I leave my pet bunny in the car while I go into 7-11 to get a soda ?" They would screech : "NOooo ! The bunny could suffer in the hot sun. You can be ticketed. Your car will be confiscated, blah blah ". And they might even be able to cite actual laws that appear to say such things. But seriously, what did you EXPECT to come from an animal rights wacko advocate ?

So too do I put little stock into what some archies say. And your odds of bumping into them anywhere are very very remote.

Tom_in_CA said:

Hey there S1u2r3fr : Is this a true story ? Or are you just joking around ? If this is a true story, then a few observations :

a) I don't doubt that an archie (or anyone for that matter), can scour rule books long and hard, and find SOMETHING that, in-their-mind , says what they're claiming. And this is true for ANY speck of land or ANY beach anywhere.

b) But let's be utterly honest : Archies (well, at least the purist type) HATE md'ers. Thus their opinions are going to be biased and colored, to say the least.

It would be a little like asking a P.E.T.A. offical (People for the Ethical Treatement of Animals, an animal rights wacko group) "Hi, Can I leave my pet bunny in the car while I go into 7-11 to get a soda ?" They would screech : "NOooo ! The bunny could suffer in the hot sun. You can be ticketed. Your car will be confiscated, blah blah ". And they might even be able to cite actual laws that appear to say such things. But seriously, what did you EXPECT to come from an animal rights wacko advocate ?

So too do I put little stock into what some archies say. And your odds of bumping into them anywhere are very very remote.

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I'll answer for her Yes true story! And it happens more than people know.

What's happening Tom is in our city and county there's actual statutes on the books that say you can not metal detect FOR ARTIFACTS in the entire city and county. There's not a single law about detecting for coins or jewelry. At least one Archaeologists here harasses those of us that detect but MOST are very friendly.

When the shipwreck uncovered a couple weeks ago down at the southern end of Crescent beach a couple of us went there to detect, not because of the shipwreck but because of the erosion. We all know erosion = big chance for gold. I don't give a flying hoot about anything old or of historical significance and there's strict laws here about, well I'll just call it old stuff. The LAMP archaeologists asked one of us to help detect around it to see how far the wreck went under the sand which they did happily. Everyone was very friendly and not one of them said anything to any of us about detecting around it. Guess the mean one was not there that day.

A lot of people believe "The Secret by Byron Preiss" (A hidden Casque) is located in St. Augustine. I watched a boy dig in a park at a spot he thought the casque was buried. (within city limits) A policeman showed up and told the boys father it's illegal to dig in St. Augustine and asked nicely for the boy to fill the hole and go home or get a $200 ticket. There is not statute against digging here, there IS a statute against digging FOR ARTIFACTS. If you call the city or county and ask if you can metal detect a park they will say NO and they will then tell you that there's a law that you can not dig in the city or county, hence no detecting. They are wrong. There is no law against digging, there's a law against digging for ARTIFACTS.

(I answer this having read though the laws here to the best of my ability)

If anyone wants to come dig or detect here do so at your own risk I could be wrong.

Saint Augustine City
Sec. 6-7. - Excavations on public property.
No individual shall be allowed to use a probe, metal detector or any other device to search or excavate for artifacts on public property, nor can any individual remove artifacts from public property without the written permission of the city.

Kapi said:

I'll answer for her Yes true story! And it happens more than people know.

What's happening Tom is in our city and county there's actual statutes on the books that say you can not metal detect FOR ARTIFACTS in the entire city and county. There's not a single law about detecting for coins or jewelry. At least one Archaeologists here harasses those of us that detect but MOST are very friendly.

When the shipwreck uncovered a couple weeks ago down at the southern end of Crescent beach a couple of us went there to detect, not because of the shipwreck but because of the erosion. We all know erosion = big chance for gold. I don't give a flying hoot about anything old or of historical significance and there's strict laws here about, well I'll just call it old stuff. The LAMP archaeologists asked one of us to help detect around it to see how far the wreck went under the sand which they did happily. Everyone was very friendly and not one of them said anything to any of us about detecting around it. Guess the mean one was not there that day.

A lot of people believe "The Secret by Byron Preiss" (A hidden Casque) is located in St. Augustine. I watched a boy dig in a park at a spot he thought the casque was buried. (within city limits) A policeman showed up and told the boys father it's illegal to dig in St. Augustine and asked nicely for the boy to fill the hole and go home or get a $200 ticket. There is not statute against digging here, there IS a statute against digging FOR ARTIFACTS. If you call the city or county and ask if you can metal detect a park they will say NO and they will then tell you that there's a law that you can not dig in the city or county, hence no detecting. They are wrong. There is no law against digging, there's a law against digging for ARTIFACTS.

(I answer this having read though the laws here to the best of my ability)

If anyone wants to come dig or detect here do so at your own risk I could be wrong.

Saint Augustine City
Sec. 6-7. - Excavations on public property.
No individual shall be allowed to use a probe, metal detector or any other device to search or excavate for artifacts on public property, nor can any individual remove artifacts from public property without the written permission of the city.

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So are these guys just harassing detectorists in and around St Augustine because of its historical significance? We visit Daytona Beach Shores every year. I've seen a fair amount of people detecting there. Seems like as long as you stay out of the dunes nobody is going to really say much beyond that which I get because of the wildlife, but cannot see any harm past that on the rest of the beach? I didn't get to go this year, but will be going in 2021 again and I plan on detecting.

Diabolik said:

So are these guys just harassing detectorists in and around St Augustine because of its historical significance? We visit Daytona Beach Shores every year. I've seen a fair amount of people detecting there. Seems like as long as you stay out of the dunes nobody is going to really say much beyond that which I get because of the wildlife, but cannot see any hard past that on the rest of the beach? I didn't get to go this year, but will be going in 2021 again and I plan on detecting.

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Yes.

Kapi said:

I'll answer for her Yes true story! And it happens more than people know. ....

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Re.: "frequency" of this : There could be a little selective memory bias going on here. Ie.: since we md'rs, of course, will get "rattled" by such a thing, then the mere fact of it happening 2 times in 5 yrs, could seem like "happening more than people know". And we therefore "project" that it must be happening all over the place. I could be wrong, but a simple test would be this : If you were to poll-the-panel of FL md'rs, and ask "how often have you been reprimanded by an archie that just happened to be waltzing down the beach ?" I'm willing to bet that it's quite rare.

Kapi said:

.... actual statutes on the books that say you can not metal detect FOR ARTIFACTS in the entire city and county.....

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Kapi said:

.... and they will then tell you that there's a law that you can not dig in the city or county, hence no detecting. They are wrong. There is no law against digging...

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This is where it gets dicey Kapi : There ARE in fact laws and rules, in EVERY park, beach, forest, desert, etc.... across the ENTIRE USA, that forbid those things. Oh sure, maybe not using those exact words, but some form or fashion of it.

For example : "artifacts" : That could fall under the verbiage of "remove" and "harvest" and "take", eh ? Also, if ANY ONE OF US calls their city parks dept. and asks "Hi, can I remove artifacts from the park please ?", I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you'll get a "no" (when in fact, no one cared less nor thought about it, till your pressing question).

And yes, there are laws forbidding digging at EVERY SINGLE park, school yard, forest, beach, desert , etc.... It might not use the word "dig", but can be some derivation like "alter", "deface", "destroy", etc..... Oh sure, you can dispute them and try to point out that if you leave no trace, that you haven't alterED anything, eh ? But seriously, you can be on the loosing end of that debate of semantics. So why even go there, when the reality is, that as long as you're not being a nuisance, and are being discreet (eg.: don't be in the middle of deep retrievals if busy-bodies are staring) then odds are, no one cares.

Kapi said:

...
Saint Augustine City
Sec. 6-7. - Excavations on public property.
No individual shall be allowed to use a probe, metal detector or any other device to search or excavate for artifacts on public property, nor can any individual remove artifacts from public property without the written permission of the city.

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I like how you've honed in on that word "artifacts". And I love your commentary on it. Because a lot of md'rs would read something like this, and just assume it means "no md'ing", eh ? But you're right : When read in context, it's only about ARTIFACTS ! So you and I can rationalize (and point out to any nosey-parker), that clad and modern jewelry are not "artifacts". Eh ?

But then the million dollar question could become "how is an artifact defined" ? (aka "cultural heritage object"). And most archies will fall back on a standard of 50 or 100 yrs, eh ? Ok, wonderful, I never find anything over 50 yrs old, do you ?

And the BEST WAY to keep this ambiguity from being defined, and the best way to keep an over-arching "no md'ing" rule from being imposed, is to create AS LITTLE WAVES AS POSSIBLE. Ie.: the less we are on their radar, as something that needs-to-be-clarified, the better.

Tom_in_CA said:

Ok, wonderful, I never find anything over 50 yrs old, do you ?

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I found Larry (Itsaring), does that count?

S1u2r3f4 said:

Ok..so I’m detecting a ripple trough and this guy comes over to tell me I can’t detect from the high tide line east to 3 miles. I ask where that is written and he doesn’t really say. But.. He says Trust me, I’m an archaeologist.

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I knew Costanza was an Architect and a Marine Biologist , but an Archaeologist ?

KOB said:

I knew Costanza was an Architect and a Marine Biologist , but an Archaeologist ?

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The golf ball episode was awesome!

All beaches ?

John Madill said:

While surfing the web i found a site with some info on detecting Florida beaches.

The article said Florida state regulations allow you to detect from the edge of the dunes to the high tide mark but detecting in the water is not allowed.

I was surprised to read that. So that means keeping your detector bone dry and also not detecting below the high tide mark when the tide is out?

The article said Vero Beach is a great spot for detecting and i have been there a few times before taking up this great hobby and would like to go again with a detector.

below is the link and the quote:

https://traveltips.usatoday.com/gold-florida-beaches-107761.html


Regulations and Laws
In most cases, discovering ancient gold on a public beach in Florida is a lucky windfall to the finder. In the United States., finders are keepers when it comes to old coins and other antiquated "treasure trove" items. Additionally, under Florida state regulations, metal detecting and other forms of searching are allowed between the edge of the dunes and the high tide mark on public beaches. Searching the dunes and the water is prohibited, however. On beaches that belong to state or federal parks, sanctuaries, preserves or military installations, check with the park rangers or property managers before searching the sand. At the same time, ask who keeps any items found in case removing them isn't allowed. On private property, always ask permission of the owner before entering the land, or trespass laws apply.

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Is that the law on all beaches or just in Florida ? I have watched videos of guys detecting in the water. Not sure what beach he was at. Why no hunting past the high tide mark ? Is it dangerous or what ? I know nothing about water hunting, help me out here. Thanks Mark

markinswpa said:

Is that the law on all beaches or just in Florida ? I have watched videos of guys detecting in the water. Not sure what beach he was at. Why no hunting past the high tide mark ? Is it dangerous or what ? I know nothing about water hunting, help me out here. Thanks Mark

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Mark, your post shows an interesting phenomenon :

Have you ever noticed how often the subject of Florida comes up, for this beach md'ing question ? Even though there's tons of other states that have ocean beaches. Yet you hardly EVER see someone posting this type question (like yours here) for any other state except Florida.

So why aren't md'rs in all our other states LIKEWISE "checking in" ? To make sure they're on the up-&-up ? After all, I'll bet I can find some beaches in those states where some rule applies. Or where someone got an attempted "scram", etc....

So why only Florida ? Here's why :

The mere fact that ANY such question gets posed for a certain location/state, (ie.: the mere post title, or the mere suggestion of issues), causes the next guys to simply repeat the question later on, "to get it clarified". Then people see that (again, with the word "Florida" and "law" and "beach" attached), so guess what they do ? They too start a post. And it just feeds off of itself.

The trouble THEN becomes that : Guess what all these decades of people are going to do, to get-to-the-bottom of this (eg.: put a notion to rest, or make-sure-they're ok) ? OF COURSE they're going to go ask the powers-that-be in that vicinity. Who then need to make even more rules and policies to address the pressing issue .

So for example : I'll bet you that the high ranking people in FL that deal with this (nautical archies, state park top-dogs, rank-&-file ranger lifeguards) have fielded these questions there 100 times each. Yet I'll bet if you asked those SAME type of people in CA (archies, state park people, etc...) that they can not recall having fielded such a question before.

I don't doubt that at SOME time in the past , since FL has some glamorous shipwreck stuff (and diving/salvage rights stuff), that ... sure, perhaps something decades ago was rooted in a legitimate rule or law, for an isolated stretch. BUT THAT'S ALL IT TOOK to get the avalanche ball rolling.

I think many of you guys are confusing 1715 Treasure Coast leases with other Florida beaches. On the TC, the land is leased from mean hi tide to whatever point offshore by the state to a treasure hunting/salvage company. Hunting inside the lease boundaries is no different than claim jumping out west. There are many maps online showing where the leases are.

Tom_in_CA said:

haha
Seeing as how most all the coastline of FL (?) is state beaches (versus Fed or county or city, etc...) then do tell: Do all of you stay above this mark ?

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most are county beaches