Will we soon have OK to detect Nat'l Pks?

Mud-puppy said:

... If I remember correctly, the only reason they caught him was somebody noticed an obviously fresh cut hole plug in the grass...then they sat back and waited......:.

Click to expand...

Ok, so what's the moral of that story ? : Cover your holes better

Also don't forget to scan the area with night vision before getting started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Midknight said:

....

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4038183/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/park-rangers-take-relic-hunters/#.WmAwi4WcHIU

...

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thanx for taking a stab at my challenge midknight. Yes, I was asking for examples of what you had written, for the consequence of md'ing.

In context, your original post had spoken of the immanency of 1) prison, 2) fines, and 3) banishing from all NPS. So with those 3 items in view, let's look at the link you gave:

I notice that no one got prison. The man "Lucien" was said to have "faced" possible jail time. But notice that part of the story was never followed through on. Does anyone know ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that ... like most such cattle-call things in court rooms, he got fines. Probation but probably no jail. If someone's got the end result of this fellow (ie.: did he go to jail) let's see it.

Another person in your link got "probation".

About the ONLY person in your link, that definitely sounded like they got jail, was a person doing indian stuff . On a grand scale , for sale on the open market. For purposes of the challenge, I had been referring to md'ing. So ... that indian example would not be md'ing.

Believe it or not (I know m'ding is "horrible" and we are all loathsome) but you'd be surprised at HOW MUCH WORSE the indian stuff is. I too can recall other such stiff fines, reprimands, confiscations, etc... ALL FROM INDIAN STUFF. Yet in the exact same spots as those scary stories, and mr's is merely given a "scram". NOT SAYING THAT MADE THE MD'ing "right". But just trying to point out, that for the purposes of my challenge, that the singular resulting "jail" in your link (which was for indian stuff) did not answer my challenge.

So unless I missed it, there was not a case of jail there for md'ing in a national park. And unless I missed it, I did not see the consequence of "banishment from all NPS parks". But yes, I did see the "fines" consequence.

LET'S LOOK AT THAT:, re.: the fines. Here's the exact quote:

"Federal prosecutors this month charged Lucien, 70, of New York, with illegally unearthing artifacts during his family outing 3½ years ago at Valley Forge, about 15 miles (24 kilometesr) west of Philadelphia. He faces fines and possible jail time if convicted....."

A few things stand out at me: Notice he was on "a family outing". What does that tell you ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this guy was simply oblivious to any prohibitions. Ie.: the type of guy who would just pull out his bounty hunter that he just got from Radio Shack, and start waltzing around during an archie convention there. Ie.: right on the front lawns next to the ranger station, etc... IN OTHER WORDS: This is a case of someone who .... with any degree of common sense, "could have known better".

I can think of a similar link for a state park in CA. They "threw the book" at a fellow who .... just like in your link .... simply didn't know any better. He showed up at sensitive historic ruins (which had been exposed by the receding waters of a reservoir during the drought). The place was CRAWLING with rangers and their archies, who were there for the news bruhaha . (and ... no ... he didn't "go to jail" for it). But sure, he got a fine, and it made the news as a "dire warning" to other scofflaws who might dare to think they could pick up old items from state parks, blah blah.

But the truth is: Metal detecting at state parks and state beaches here in common place all the time. Even at the very park /reservoir this fellow got his ticket at. But the DIFFERENCE was, this guy (a rogue beginner who's not aware of not swatting hornet's nests) simply walked right out during the worst possible time. So .... they made an example of him.

YES THERE WILL ALWAYS BE FLUKE EXAMPLES OF persons being "roughed up" for offenses. I have a newspaper clipping of a fellow who got a traffic ticket for eating a hamburger while driving (cop called it "distracted driving"). Ok, let's take a show of hands: Will readers here ever eat while driving again ? And I have no doubt that if you scoured the news links long enough, you'd find an example of someone pulled over, car confiscated, arrested, jailed and fined by an over zealous cop. ..... for nothing but a tail-light out. Could it happen ? Sure.

But as imminent as these fears we are all supposed to have is, yet ... when it comes right down to it, you see very few examples. And most (jail for example) just fall apart and no such examples exist. And in each and every case, it's typically a person who .... with any common sense, could have avoided it.

AM NOT SAYING TO THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND.

Tom_in_CA said:

Ok, so what's the moral of that story ? : Cover your holes better

Click to expand...

Yeah, thats the moral actually, "If a tree falls in the Forest and nobody hears it" doctrine........I suppose after 7+yrs of no trouble, he just got sloppy on a errant and obvious plug stomp performed in a High Vis area...

Most Govt Rangers, CO's, whatnot...they work a shift perfunctory, drinking coffee with vodka at the boatramp, looking for easy pickings, harmless mostly...they simply put in the time and go home....Unless they are like Dwight Schrute!

I did get to know one aggressive and committed 'Dwight Schrute' CO once...New guy, recently transferred into my Northern MN AO to clean up some heavy poaching activity that went unenforced by the former 'Officer Friendly' ..This new damn guy was out at night, all seasons, all weather!...For some strange reason, He seemed intent on actually doing his job! Really put the fear of the Lord into all the local prolifics!...

Anyway, he checked me fishing, he checked me in Bow season, he checked me during duck season, small game, and then in deer Rifle, and again during December Black powder!....No small talk chit chat! Dude was relentless! Your permits and papers and gear better be in order!...

Then, in Jan, I was out in the middle of nowhere checking my beaver sets...way out in nowhere, in a MN swamp, I'll never forget it, no Human had any reason to be outdoors at all...Out in the gray foreboding swamp, attending to a set, Underneath my parka hood, the hair on the back of my neck suddenly sprang to attention!

DANGER! In an instant, I thought, "Its too cold for bears, gotta be a big damn moose about ready to stomp me!" Turned around there stood the Game Warden! Well, I was of course completely Legal once again, as is my nature, albiet an aberration in this lawless area, and we finally got to talking...

He needed an informant trusted by the 'MN Muskrat Mafia', running poached and pilfered NA furbearing quadruped pleus into Asia W/O paying tariffs......Operating out of Bemidji...and I of course, was his humble Huckleberry...It was in all the papers...

He offered me a job as his assistant, and I accepted!!...We had a wonderful relationship there on out! I learned a whole lot, made some money, got to trap 'Damage Control' beaver year round even! Last I heard, I saw him being filmed on the Discovery Channel...no joke...he had retired and was committed to hunting for Bigfoots as a relaxing retirement hobby!....

I'll say, if anybody is ever gonna find a Bigfoot, it would be This guy! He'd do a live capture even! Big furry smelly 7' tall angry b'tard? Howling and pounding on a tree trunk with a stick alla the damn time?...My CO Guy could and would catch him!...He was THAT good!.

Problem is, all Bigfoots closely resemble about any old standard Northern MN Swede! Without the 'Uffda' chitchat or wearing a flannel checkity asst shirt of course, still..the guy snuck up on me plenty of times, and to sneak up on a little Hobbit like me? With my magic invisible ring even? Thats really saying something!.....

Great writing skills once again puppy-mud

Mud-puppy said:

Yeah, thats the moral actually, "If a tree falls in the Forest and nobody hears it" doctrine........I suppose after 7+yrs of no trouble, he just got sloppy on a errant and obvious plug stomp performed in a High Vis area.....

Click to expand...

Re.: the above quote: You're right: Whenever an example IS forthcoming, of someone got their chops busted for md'ing (fines, etc...) it is invariably someone who ... with any common sense ... could have avoided it.

Like speeding in a motor vehicle: IF YOU PULL OUT in front a cop, start spinning donuts, go 30 MPH over the limit, etc... and BAM he pulls you over and writes you a ticket. You can put the "horrible fine" link that this driver got into a news link. And the inescapable message will be: Don't DARE exceed the speed limit, or make an erratic lane change, lest "Look what could befall you" ! Yet when you look closer at the link , you see it was someone who just didn't have a lick of sense.

NOT SAYING THIS EXPLAINS EVERY SINGLE CONSEQUENCE . But ... just saying, that every single time I hear of an md'r *truly* getting some book thrown at him, it's invariably someone being obnoxious, or swatting hornets nests (when, with a little bit of research, he could have known better). Or someone who is leaving obvious signs of their activity.

Example: I knew of a guy who got legal hassled for md'ing in NFS here in CA. The "link" made the rounds. And now we're supposed to be in "fear and trembling" and avoid NFS, right ? BUT WAIT ! The rest of the story was that this guy had made a video, or posted pictures , of himself detecting and posing RIGHT NEXT TO THE SIGN of "such & such national forest". He was making a joke of it, and posted it on an md'ing forum. Brilliant, right ?

Well a fellow md'r on that forum (bless his little heart) didn't like that. So he took the post-link and showed it to the "proper authorities". The md'r therefore got the book thrown at him. Ok, is anyone here seeing that the original md'r didn't have a lick of common sense to not post such pictures ? And is anyone here seeing that this is NOT a case of "rangers waiting behind every tree to jump out and bust your chops?"

And again, NOT saying that "makes it right".

TwistedT said:

sure, just grab your detector and go to your closest CW battlefield.

I'm going to Gettysburg - wanna come with me???

Click to expand...

lol! I'm from Gettysburg! live just 8 miles away now. I also work for DoD. We were already told..... if they do close down, it won't effect us. Soooooo, i'm not sure who else it won't effect. lol. just be careful! FYI! The park service in Gettysburg uses drones, and also has a machine that can pin point you with in a couple of yards..... just buy the frequency that your detector gives off. I can detect properties right up against the park..... but we've heard the buzzing above already. we could hear it but not see it. i'm sure we were being watched. i'll soon be 48, I can't run as fast as I did when I was 18! lol

sweetinsanity said:

.... The park service in Gettysburg uses drones, and also has a machine that can pin point you with in a couple of yards.....

Click to expand...

Theoretically .... hypothetically .... IF someone were thinking of sneaking around gettysburg with a detector: The information you give COULD be sleuthed out. Right ? Someone hell-bent on md'ing there, could research ahead of time, find out what counter measures they employ, and .... wise up and call off his notions. Right ? Or employ measures to "know when the drone is above him" (and turn off his machine during those time-spells).

NATURALLY this is far-fetched. But the failures of people caught, that I see in links circulated, were far more stupid (ie.: lacking any research, etc...) than that.

Tom_in_CA said:

thanx for taking a stab at my challenge midknight. Yes, I was asking for examples of what you had written, for the consequence of md'ing.

In context, your original post had spoken of the immanency of 1) prison, 2) fines, and 3) banishing from all NPS. So with those 3 items in view, let's look at the link you gave:

I notice that no one got prison. The man "Lucien" was said to have "faced" possible jail time. But notice that part of the story was never followed through on. Does anyone know ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that ... like most such cattle-call things in court rooms, he got fines. Probation but probably no jail. If someone's got the end result of this fellow (ie.: did he go to jail) let's see it.

Another person in your link got "probation".

About the ONLY person in your link, that definitely sounded like they got jail, was a person doing indian stuff . On a grand scale , for sale on the open market. For purposes of the challenge, I had been referring to md'ing. So ... that indian example would not be md'ing.

Believe it or not (I know m'ding is "horrible" and we are all loathsome) but you'd be surprised at HOW MUCH WORSE the indian stuff is. I too can recall other such stiff fines, reprimands, confiscations, etc... ALL FROM INDIAN STUFF. Yet in the exact same spots as those scary stories, and mr's is merely given a "scram". NOT SAYING THAT MADE THE MD'ing "right". But just trying to point out, that for the purposes of my challenge, that the singular resulting "jail" in your link (which was for indian stuff) did not answer my challenge.

Click to expand...

To contradict your statement about Indian Stuff...

https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1563/two-men-jailed-for-looting-civil-war-artifacts-from-federal-lands.htm

This article could be considered a grand scale, but nevertheless, they went to prison. But what is a grand scale??? You added that in from your original challenge. The fact remains, you could take a three ringer from an NPS site and be punished for it. More than likely you would be given a "small" fine and a mark on your record. Maybe a small amount of community service. Nevertheless, I prefer a clean record over some artifacts. I have come across countless ways over the years to help NPS with their research/ excavations, and get my thrill of the hunt if I had participated in it.

As far as ignorance of the law goes, its not a valid defense in America... people have been trying it for centuries, and it usually causes an eye roll from the judge and a hearty chuckle from the spectators, then a short speech by the judge on why ignorance isn't a defense.

I should also point out that there is a common misunderstanding with the term and use of "jail". Going to jail doesn't mean you have been convicted of anything. I could be accused of stealing a wallet from someone, running away, and then being caught immediately by police with the wallet in my possession. I haven't been convicted of anything, but I have been accused of a crime. I will end up spending time in jail no matter what the outcome of that arrest, being that they can not simply take my word for not committing the crime while still on the scene. So I will unfortunately spend at least a night or so in jail, and at worst a whole weekend if I get caught on a Friday after hours. Come Monday, if I am lucky, I will either be let go if it was all some big mistake, or the criminal justice process will continue and I may get to be bailed out. Or I may be stuck there until my trail and verdict if I or no one I know has the money.

I realize the article does not specifically say if they were arrested, but in most cases they don't simply accuse you of the crime by showing up at your house, telling you of it, and them saying having a good day and going on their way.

Tom_in_CA said:

So unless I missed it, there was not a case of jail there for md'ing in a national park. And unless I missed it, I did not see the consequence of "banishment from all NPS parks". But yes, I did see the "fines" consequence.

LET'S LOOK AT THAT:, re.: the fines. Here's the exact quote:

"Federal prosecutors this month charged Lucien, 70, of New York, with illegally unearthing artifacts during his family outing 3½ years ago at Valley Forge, about 15 miles (24 kilometesr) west of Philadelphia. He faces fines and possible jail time if convicted....."

A few things stand out at me: Notice he was on "a family outing". What does that tell you ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this guy was simply oblivious to any prohibitions. Ie.: the type of guy who would just pull out his bounty hunter that he just got from Radio Shack, and start waltzing around during an archie convention there. Ie.: right on the front lawns next to the ranger station, etc... IN OTHER WORDS: This is a case of someone who .... with any degree of common sense, "could have known better".

I can think of a similar link for a state park in CA. They "threw the book" at a fellow who .... just like in your link .... simply didn't know any better. He showed up at sensitive historic ruins (which had been exposed by the receding waters of a reservoir during the drought). The place was CRAWLING with rangers and their archies, who were there for the news bruhaha . (and ... no ... he didn't "go to jail" for it). But sure, he got a fine, and it made the news as a "dire warning" to other scofflaws who might dare to think they could pick up old items from state parks, blah blah.

But the truth is: Metal detecting at state parks and state beaches here in common place all the time. Even at the very park /reservoir this fellow got his ticket at. But the DIFFERENCE was, this guy (a rogue beginner who's not aware of not swatting hornet's nests) simply walked right out during the worst possible time. So .... they made an example of him.

YES THERE WILL ALWAYS BE FLUKE EXAMPLES OF persons being "roughed up" for offenses. I have a newspaper clipping of a fellow who got a traffic ticket for eating a hamburger while driving (cop called it "distracted driving"). Ok, let's take a show of hands: Will readers here ever eat while driving again ? And I have no doubt that if you scoured the news links long enough, you'd find an example of someone pulled over, car confiscated, arrested, jailed and fined by an over zealous cop. ..... for nothing but a tail-light out. Could it happen ? Sure.

But as imminent as these fears we are all supposed to have is, yet ... when it comes right down to it, you see very few examples. And most (jail for example) just fall apart and no such examples exist. And in each and every case, it's typically a person who .... with any common sense, could have avoided it.

AM NOT SAYING TO THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND.

Click to expand...

You did miss the banishment part... the young lady who was painting rocks was put on probation, made to pay restitution, and also banned for 2 yrs from the national parks in concurrence with her probation.

As far as how often these sorts of things occur and someone is caught, google seems to think its more common than most tend to think. Articles go back years, as I have shown, with varying degrees of success in regards to people being caught. No law enforcement agency can convict or even an ID everyone of those who have committed a crime, but then again, what we find on google is just the surface, as with any other type of crime.

Midknight said:

.... https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1563/two-men-jailed-for-looting-civil-war-artifacts-from-federal-lands.htm....

Click to expand...

Good job. You got me Midknight Yes, there are examples of persons who "had the book thrown at them".

So when I've made this challenge, I am always painfully aware that ... yes... some examples could be found. The only thing I can say, is that ... so too, if you search the internet long enough, you will find a case of someone roughed up and car confiscated for a tail light out. Or jay-walking etc...

But yeah, you got me. And it seems like the persons in your particular post, were not numbskulls parading in front of archies (ie.: no common sense to be discreet). It seems, if I understand correctly, that they were polished. Would be interesting to know what brought the attention on them. Eg.: selling on Ebay and the notation "Dug at Shiloh" ? Or .... ?

I hope I'm not the only one that finds these threads and the ideas behind them revolting. You want to see more and more bans on detecting, just keep entertaining these thoughts and using those Lesche Sampsons in parks and none of us will have a hobby.

I can't believe I'm the only one to speak up about even starting a thread like this.

sumrtym said:

.... You want to see more and more bans on detecting, just keep entertaining these thoughts .....

Click to expand...

There is one ironic feature of this statement. That : If someone goes to a place where md'ing is not allowed, it could lead to bans. BUT WAIT : If the location you're talking about ... is ALREADY NOT ALLOWED, then ... how is detecting there going to make it dis-allowed ? If it's ALREADY not allowed.

Example : Like exceeding the speed limits: Someone gets a speeding ticket. Does that "create speed limits" ? No. There was already a speed limit. And the scofflaws do not get speed limits invented. Nor do they lower the speed limit. They get a ticket for a law that is *already* there in place.

sumrtym said:

I hope I'm not the only one that finds these threads and the ideas behind them revolting. You want to see more and more bans on detecting, just keep entertaining these thoughts and using those Lesche Sampsons in parks and none of us will have a hobby.

I can't believe I'm the only one to speak up about even starting a thread like this.

Click to expand...

there is this thing called ------- SARCASM!!!!!!

Definition of sarcasm
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b : the use or language of sarcasm

Tom_in_CA said:

There is one ironic feature of this statement. That : If someone goes to a place where md'ing is not allowed, it could lead to bans. BUT WAIT : If the location you're talking about ... is ALREADY NOT ALLOWED, then ... how is detecting there going to make it dis-allowed ? If it's ALREADY not allowed.

Click to expand...

We're talking about further bans. Your posts majority seem to be about violating law detecting in National Parks, trespassing on private property (go at night), etc, and then joke about how metal detectorist hobby is seen as bad. IMHO YOU are the one giving it a bad name.

TwistedT said:

there is this thing called ------- SARCASM!!!!!!

Definition of sarcasm
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b : the use or language of sarcasm

Click to expand...

See above. It's a continuing theme, and it's not something to be making forum posts then just say, oh we're being sarcastic. I've seen numerous posts lately encouraging people to detect on private property without permission with the "you probably won't get caught" or "worst they'll probably just ask you to leave". This feeds every bad stereotype of detectorists and is ammunition for those that want bans on all detecting. Your internet posts don't disappear tomorrow....they are there forever.

Put your best foot forward, ask permission, and cover your holes. Ethics in detecting matters as do perceptions and carrying long-handle shovels in public parks is a great way to get them closed as well.

You'll notice there's a sticky on ETHICS in this very subsection of "getting permission". Since when did it become ok on this forum to recommend violating every ethic of the hobby and no one say boo about it???

If I was a city/town/federal official gunning to ban detecting, I'd just print off some of these recent threads as evidence of why detectors should be banned, period.

We

sumrtym said:

We're talking about further bans. Your posts majority seem to be about violating law detecting in National Parks, trespassing on private property (go at night), etc, and then joke about how metal detectorist hobby is seen as bad. IMHO YOU are the one giving it a bad name.

See above. It's a continuing theme, and it's not something to be making forum posts then just say, oh we're being sarcastic. I've seen numerous posts lately encouraging people to detect on private property without permission with the "you probably won't get caught" or "worst they'll probably just ask you to leave". This feeds every bad stereotype of detectorists and is ammunition for those that want bans on all detecting. Your internet posts don't disappear tomorrow....they are there forever.

Put your best foot forward, ask permission, and cover your holes. Ethics in detecting matters as do perceptions and carrying long-handle shovels in public parks is a great way to get them closed as well.

You'll notice there's a sticky on ETHICS in this very subsection of "getting permission". Since when did it become ok on this forum to recommend violating every ethic of the hobby and no one say boo about it???

If I was a city/town/federal official gunning to ban detecting, I'd just print off some of these recent threads as evidence of why detectors should be banned, period.

Click to expand...

Whoa!! - slow done there a bit bud.

We KNOW it is illegal and it will STILL BE ILLEGAL during a Fed shutdown.

We are making light of the situation of the gov't shutdown. It is a bad situation for the workers that are furloughed because of it.

It was a tongue in cheek question from the OP as it will never be LEGAL just because of the shutdown.

I see you havent been on here for a long time and you may not know some of us who are on this thread. I know most of the guys that have posted in this thread and they are law abiding detectorists. You are assuming a lot from people that you dont even know.

Most of the people reading this thread took it as a joke as it was meant.

And if a "city/town/federal official gunning to ban detecting" then they already have it in their mind to do it - most likely because from someone who left holes and trash at a park/playground, Not because someone from the interwebs said to heck with the laws go detect there!

So just take it as it was meant and have a great day.
Happy Hunting and Good Luck!!!

sumrtym said:

We're talking about further bans. ....

Click to expand...

Hmm, like this ? :

a) A park in city #1 has a rule that forbids metal detecting.

b) A park in city #2 has no rules that forbid metal detecting.

c) Someone goes and detects at #1 anyhow. He gets a scram, or a ticket.

d) Someone in city #2 hears about what happened in #1. They will decide: "Let's make a law for our parks which had nothing to do with theirs" ?

Hmmm. This is entirely possible. But ... Just as in the example of the speeding ticket, I don't think it makes any other city think of lowering speed limits, etc... I might be wrong though.

And yes, I am the first to admit that I do reach to the other extreme on these subjects. Guilty of locker room talk . I guess to bring balance to center, to the conservative extreme. that seems to think we need to grovel, get red carpets rolled out, etc... Thus perhaps something in the middle is correct.

I'm kind of sorry I started this thread as a fantasy and some thought I was serious. As in past gov't shutdowns, gates to Nat'l Parks are closed, and a NPS Police Officer is there to make sure we don't take any treasures like a zinc cent with pieces broken off.

I read of a person who detected a National Park that was a civil war battlefield. They got 6 bullets that had a commercial value of $3 but were said to have an archaeological value of $18,000. Their detectors were taken, had to spend $1,000s for full page ads in newspapers saying turn in looters stealing 1 of a kind priceless Nat'l treasures that belong to all.

So do others share my interpretation that the archaeologist gets $3K for each item dug as long as they create a map showing which square inch it was on, how deep, direction it was pointed?

Who would need to know that info, or even want to know it? Imagine tourists sleeping standing up, with the huge load of info that is more than they want to know.

$10-$20K to revise the area of a Civil War battle by 2"? Do they imagine themselves to be heroes? I really would like to know why they get away with putting maybe 99% of their finds underground where the public will never see them, while claiming these finds belong to all.

George (MN) said:

....I read of a person who detected a National Park that was a civil war battlefield. They got 6 bullets that had a commercial value of $3 but were said to have an archaeological value of $18,000. Their detectors were taken, had to spend $1,000s ....

Click to expand...

Whenever these type horror stories are floated on md'ing forums, I can't help but think that the underlying intention and take-away is: "Therefore all us md'rs should shudder in fear, and grovel where ever we come to "lest such a horrible thing happen to us".

But when you sleuth deeper into such stories:

a) they were invariably on a spot that ... with ANY degree of research, the md'r could have easily known better (ie.: some dork who wandered right on to Shiloh or Gettysburg, etc....)

b) or it was someone being obnoxious, who could not take a warning.

c) Let's be honest: There will ALWAYS be fluke news accounts, of persons roughed up by overzealous cops, for various things (tail-light out, jay-walking, etc...). I have a news link to a guy who got a traffic ticket for eating a hamburger while driving. Does anyone think for a moment that "oh no, I shall never eat and drive again?" Or do they recognize that as a fluke ?

NOT SAYING TO THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND (and yes, I realize the hamburger example was ... uh ... "lacking"). And, yes I agree that those $18,000 bullets would have rotted till eternity, and it does no one any good to read a 20 page study on how deep they were, what direction they were pointed, blah blah.

Tom_in_CA said:

Theoretically .... hypothetically .... IF someone were thinking of sneaking around gettysburg with a detector: The information you give COULD be sleuthed out. Right ? Someone hell-bent on md'ing there, could research ahead of time, find out what counter measures they employ, and .... wise up and call off his notions. Right ? Or employ measures to "know when the drone is above him" (and turn off his machine during those time-spells).

NATURALLY this is far-fetched. But the failures of people caught, that I see in links circulated, were far more stupid (ie.: lacking any research, etc...) than that.

Click to expand...

they also use thermal night vision. I've talked to guys who have been on the battlefield detecting at night...( pulled some great stuff ). they laugh and say no more... they don't run like they used to. in the 70's early 80's there were only 2 park rangers on duty at any given time. someone on one side of town would shoot.... they would respond while people on the other side of town was on the park pouch large buck. now they have a complete fleet! not to mention the park closes at dark. but! the friends of the battlefield donate their time and patrol the park all night long. we detect right up to the property line! its not worth it to me to lose my Gov. job and time in prison not to mention the fine. I know about the night vision, drones..... because my buddys uncle is a park ranger for Gettysburg. lol. I know people sneak in all the time. not me!