50 Thousand Dollar Ethics Question

BufordCityDawg said:

And this is how we got the real estate crash...

A friend of mine is a loan officer and I heard a LOT about this type of thing happening which is why people got loans that they couldn't really afford, or houses that they couldn't sell when their incomer changed for the worse.

On to the OP, I would totally take the truck back and make the dealership eat the loss. In this case you can afford the car, but what about the person who can't and they fudge their numbers?

BCD

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I think a lot of you folks are on the same page as I am on this. A person that really needs the vehicle will be glad they fudged the numbers. Then when they can't make the payments it gets repossessed, they lose all the money they made in payments and on top of that they get a judgement against them for the difference as to what the dealer sold it to them for and what the dealer got out of a repossession auction. And on top of that they are out every payment, deposit and accessory they added to the vehicle.

Now the person that got the vehicle has a repossession, a judgement and late payments on their credit and they have lost all the money they couldn't afford in the first place and they have NO CAR. What they did if they get away with it will only hurt others that really can't afford what they are getting into.

I am VERY UPSET they cheated supposedly on my behalf. If you look at it another way, they LIED TO GET A SALE and show the manufacturer they are selling trucks. AND the salesman and others get their commissions.

If I ask the credit union to decline the deal, I think they will have to pay me for the extra parts I bought for it. A tonneau cover and chrome side trim. And they will have to now sell the truck as used and take a 10 grand hit.

I have emailed two lawyers. I will wait till one calls me on Monday. However I think I know my plan of action. As I said, it is not like I needed it. I wanted it.

I want to thank everyone that replied and who might reply. As I said in the beginning, I know it is absolutely my choice. Not many are in a position to be able to walk away from a sale of this magnitude because they are desperate. Dealers do NOT have the right to commit FRAUD in order to sell vehicles. I am just glad I was reading what they were having me sign instead of the blind robot signs that probably a lot of folks do when excited to have a brand new vehicle.

I did fail to mention one thing. This would have been my very first brand new vehicle I have ever had in my life. I thought I should be allowed a little luxury. I do know there are many many brand new vehicles out there and another one will be made for 2018.

Hmmmm. When you get the chance to talk with an attorney, investigate the possibility of levying charges against the dealer for fraud. After all, the dealer not only defrauded the CU, but also the customer. Seems to me that there may be grounds for a judgement against the dealer for monetary damages, especially if this has a detrimental effect on your credit score.

Either that, or put a .22 caliber bullet into the finance manager's kneecap. (Ok, maybe a little over-the-top.)

Roger

I am not exactly sure how I would handle this, but I try to live life by the SWAN method (Sleep Well At Night). I agree with others' opinions regarding the bad experience and it bothering you enough to bring the topic to the forum. If it's bothering you that much, it will bother you from now on until you return the truck and take your business elsewhere. I believe you've already made your mind up that this deal is now about principle and not just about everybody being ok with fraudulent activity. You are not ok and you are now a man on a mission!!!

What a dilemma... It's disgusting that they lied to get a sale, and worse that they put you in a bad situation.

Having said that, there's probably not one single thing you can do that will guarantee any consequences for the dealer. At most, a complaint to the auto dealer oversight agency in your state may bring some sort of scrutiny. I would not hold my breath though, auto dealers seem prone to bad behaviors and I've personally never seen one disciplined in any way...

I can tell you for a fact that dealers very commonly put folks into brand new cars they can't afford, and after a week or two if they can't "shop" the loan they will call their customer and "take back" the new car. If they can do that, there must be some latitude on what they sell as new or used. They wouldn't do it if it hurt their bottom line...

I hope you figure out how you want to handle the situation. I don't have any advice for you on that either, except just do what you feel is right.

BBsGal said:

What a dilemma... It's disgusting that they lied to get a sale, and worse that they put you in a bad situation.

Having said that, there's probably not one single thing you can do that will guarantee any consequences for the dealer. At most, a complaint to the auto dealer oversight agency in your state may bring some sort of scrutiny. I would not hold my breath though, auto dealers seem prone to bad behaviors and I've personally never seen one disciplined in any way...

I can tell you for a fact that dealers very commonly put folks into brand new cars they can't afford, and after a week or two if they can't "shop" the loan they will call their customer and "take back" the new car. If they can do that, there must be some latitude on what they sell as new or used. They wouldn't do it if it hurt their bottom line...

I hope you figure out how you want to handle the situation. I don't have any advice for you on that either, except just do what you feel is right.

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One reason I am going to talk to a lawyer. The financing was approved with their deception. Not mine. If the credit union takes it back, what recourse if any do I have because they flat out lied. We all know that contracts protect the seller. I just don't know what avenues I can travel because of what they did.

Not a good situation at all. Yes you may have gotten the truck and the dealer sold one but it was because of false information. I wouldn't feel good about it and it doesn't seem like you do.

I'd wait for your attorney
He might be able to "convince" the dealer it would be in their best interest to either make a discounted settle on the truck rather than to be reported as fraud practices.
Seems to me you're in a strong bargaining position,

ScubaDetector said:

One reason I am going to talk to a lawyer. The financing was approved with their deception. Not mine. If the credit union takes it back, what recourse if any do I have because they flat out lied. We all know that contracts protect the seller. I just don't know what avenues I can travel because of what they did.

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I think that's a wise course.

I got married while I was in the Army. My new wife couldn't drive a stick shift so I decided to buy an automatic. I found a nice car that was in my budget. They wouldn't approve a loan on it but would on a deluxe model costing about a third more. If the dealer is crooked they probably wouldn't stand behind any warranty that the new truck would have either.

Well here is the scoop folks. I asked the credit union to decline funding the loan and they are.

So now I am waiting for the dealer to ask for the truck back. I did this out of principal and not remorse. People that need a vehicle but can't afford it don't need to be approved for a new one. They can find a used one.

The dealer will have a huge loss as they can't sell this truck as new anymore and all they can blame it on is their attempted deception.

I can sleep at night and still drive my Avalanche. I talked to a lawyer today. They owe me for the parts I bought and for putting the plates back on my Avalanche and I will drop it off and walk away.

I knew from the onset it was my decision. The fact that they changed the paperwork WITHOUT asking the credit union if they would still fund the loan proves it was fraud on their end not mine.

So next fall I will probably have a 2018 Laramie in my driveway. Stay tuned!!

Good for you Scuba !!!!!

......maybe that 2018 model will have even better features and be worth the wait !

ScubaDetector said:

Well here is the scoop folks.

The dealer will have a huge loss as they can't sell this truck as new anymore and all they can blame it on is their attempted deception.

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Unless you put a number of miles on it, as crooked as that dealer is he will probably still find a way to pass it off as new. i guess he could even roll the numbers back too.

Silversmith45 said:

Unless you put a number of miles on it, as crooked as that dealer is he will probably still find a way to pass it off as new. i guess he could even roll the numbers back too.

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Impossible. The state has it registered and plated in my name now. Carfax and others will have me as the first owner. No, they are stuck.

Oh and it has over 700 miles on it now and it will have more until they pay me and ask for it back. The credit union said it might take up to two weeks for them to get the paperwork and then decline it.

They just lost over 10 grand and I feel good.

If you're still in possession of the new truck, take all you're belongings out of it, as they're liable to repo it after funding was stopped.

Also, see how badly they want you to keep the truck, since they'll take a hit on it anyway, and maybe you're CU will finance the lower price.

A buddy of mine just bought a new car, and it had 700 miles on it. I think he got a little break. A lot of people wouldn't read the paperwork. My buddy didn't till he got home a few days later, that's when he found add ins , or upgrades, that he wasn't informed of. A lot of this happens when they make split decisions from the pressure of the salesman.
The dealer will bump the price up from the extras that you put on the truck.
Congrats on your decision, sleep well.

Gauntlet said:

If you're still in possession of the new truck, take all you're belongings out of it, as they're liable to repo it after funding was stopped.

Also, see how badly they want you to keep the truck, since they'll take a hit on it anyway, and maybe you're CU will finance the lower price.

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Still legally registered and titled in my name. My plates on it. A repossession without a court order is illegal here. I have missed no payments. Nobody to pay!

I wonder what they would say if you offered $30,000?
Show up at the dealer after a little 4 wheelin, with a load of manure in the back.

Sounds like you handled the situation pretty well and have it under control, just make sure when it gets returned you 'forget' one of those practice bombs under the seat.

I think this says a lot about you Scuba, a person who values ethical behavior and isn't afraid to stand up for it. Kudos to you

bbsgal said:

i think this says a lot about you scuba, a person who values ethical behavior and isn't afraid to stand up for it. Kudos to you

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