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FBI Seizes 91 YO's Artifacts.

RyanChappell

RyanChappell

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Outrageous!

fbi-seizes-thousands-artifacts-at-indiana-property

INDIANAPOLIS – FBI agents seized thousands of artifacts Wednesday from a 91-year-old man’s private collection at his home in rural central Indiana and says it will return the items that were wrongfully in his possession

Donald Miller, from Waldorn, amassed the collection over eight decades, the FBI said. The items include artifacts from Native Americans, Russia, China, and other nations.

"The cultural value of these artifacts is immeasurable," FBI Special Agent Robert Jones said at a news conference. He refused to disclose details of any of the individual items taken from Miller's property.

Some items were acquired improperly, but Miller, who traveled extensively, obtained others legally or before laws affecting them were on the books, Jones said. Federal authorities will attempt to repatriate items with their rightful owners, he said...
 
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There's got to be more to that story. This does not bode poorly for those with stamp collections, coin-collections, arrowheads, etc... in their house. Even the article itself alludes to those things he got illegally spirited out of other countries, and so forth. I do not see any cross-over danger from something like this, to us and our coins, buttons, etc...

(unless of course you got them from Shiloh, Ghettysburg, Bodie, etc ... under the cover of darkness ?)
 
DAMN that is not GOOD for antique collectors. If I go to the flea market and buy a collection of rare native american artifacts for 5K

does the US government have the right to come take those possessions?

keith
 
This stinks and makes you wonder how far will our Government go. I am waiting for them to go after rare coins that where never meant to leave the mint but did and have been bought and sold many times. BUT the key is they where never to leave the mint there for STOLEN goods and they can take them.
 
NHKeith said:
does the US government have the right to come take those possessions?
Click to expand...

they can do whatever they want; they're the GUBMINT!

...and if they cannot; they will just make another law so they can.



The whole country's turning into a police state.
 
Both Egypt and Greece have been trying for years to repatriate national treasures taken from them and currently sitting in British museums.

The purchase of stolen goods remain the property of the original owner. It does not matter wether the purchaser knew they where stolen goods or not.

Note that the article clearly states that the FBI will return the items that were wrongfully in his possession. The government is not confiscating all the items.
 
Rudy said:
Both Egypt and Greece have been trying for years to repatriate national treasures taken from them and currently sitting in British museums.

The purchase of stolen goods remain the property of the original owner. It does not matter wether the purchaser knew they where stolen goods or not.

Note that the article clearly states that the FBI will return the items that were wrongfully in his possession. The government is not confiscating all the items.
Click to expand...

Agree
 
Rudy said:
Both Egypt and Greece have been trying for years to repatriate national treasures taken from them and currently sitting in British museums.

The purchase of stolen goods remain the property of the original owner. It does not matter wether the purchaser knew they where stolen goods or not.

Note that the article clearly states that the FBI will return the items that were wrongfully in his possession. The government is not confiscating all the items.
Click to expand...

They probably are confiscating it all now and the courtroom fight about whose is whose and what's what will probably being going on long after this guy is gone, or he will have use his life savings defending himself.


Now obviously if this guy was less than honest in how he came by something then regardless of age he is getting what was coming to him. Hopefully he held on to those receipts!
 
It must be Indiana Jones' house!!! I can't believe we missed that joke! The press should call him that!

Tom_in_CA said:
There's got to be more to that story. This does not bode poorly for those with stamp collections, coin-collections, arrowheads, etc... in their house. Even the article itself alludes to those things he got illegally spirited out of other countries, and so forth. I do not see any cross-over danger from something like this, to us and our coins, buttons, etc...
Click to expand...

80+ years ago rich tourists came back from Egypt with parts of mummies as souvenirs.

I don't think the government should waste their time entering your home and taking your ivory, that you got before it was illegal, just because you don't have any proof how old it is.

He must have had Indian burial items which make it obvious that he broke a law? But what if he did all this before it was illegal? I guess they don't necessarily grandfather in the legality of possession in every case, like drugs obviously.

I doubt that word of his collection is just getting out. I am thinking that this is our government's new attitude toward our rights, that is making it a free for all for the Archies!
 
Ok, ok, everyone..... how do we know the 90 yr old guy isn't a guy who has illegally obtained his collection? Yall do realize that that type of stuff is a common occurrence??? Black market artifacts sound familiar????

Just cause its some poor, defenseless, old man doesn't mean he didn't knowingly get them through illegal means.
 
Midknight said:
Ok, ok, everyone..... how do we know the 90 yr old guy isn't a guy who has illegally obtained his collection? Yall do realize that that type of stuff is a common occurrence??? Black market artifacts sound familiar????

Just cause its some poor, defenseless, old man doesn't mean he didn't knowingly get them through illegal means.
Click to expand...

Oh, you mean how the U.S. government stole the Native Americans' lands...I guess all we European-Americans are going to have to move back to Europe and return the continent back to the Native Americans.

Please. Our government is so hypocritical it's ridiculous! How much land has our government taken (stolen) by force? How much tax money does it take in each year by coercion? Government prosecution of an old man for having artifacts "illegally" is the pot calling the kettle black!
 
Midknight said:
Ok, ok, everyone..... how do we know the 90 yr old guy isn't a guy who has illegally obtained his collection? Yall do realize that that type of stuff is a common occurrence??? Black market artifacts sound familiar????
Click to expand...

What does it matter? It wasn't killing anyone, and it was in the privacy of his home.

I guess if you have a bunch of stuff it should be considered stolen until the police can come in and decided who you stole it from? If he acquired it long enough ago, he is 90 after all, no laws were violated until the items were banned years later.
 
The guy has not been charged with a crime yet the feds are on his property and seizing things...don't worry be happy. The US Federal government is out of control.
 
Crackerjack said:
Oh, you mean how the U.S. government stole the Native Americans' lands...I guess all we European-Americans are going to have to move back to Europe and return the continent back to the Native Americans.

Please. Our government is so hypocritical it's ridiculous! How much land has our government taken (stolen) by force? How much tax money does it take in each year by coercion? Government prosecution of an old man for having artifacts "illegally" is the pot calling the kettle black!
Click to expand...

That is true
 
My only problem would be how the determination of wrongfully in possession is made. I know that ANYTHING that is a native american grave good is likely going to be confiscated under NAGPRA. International stuff has issues, too, and unfortunately, the determination can be made by an ignorant bureaucrat. Ancient coins can be a problem. I know that Cyprus provided a list of coins types, and at least one of the types was not minted in Cyprus, and can legitimately be found elsewhere. I think at least one government numismatist quit over State Department stupidity.

I have some rare coins, and because of our government's unpredictability, there is no way I would ever allow them out of the country (and to very few hands IN this country) for study. I simply have no way of making sure that I will definitely get them back if I do.

-- Tom
 
RyanChappell said:
What does it matter? It wasn't killing anyone, and it was in the privacy of his home.

I guess if you have a bunch of stuff it should be considered stolen until the police can come in and decided who you stole it from? If he acquired it long enough ago, he is 90 after all, no laws were violated until the items were banned years later.
Click to expand...

You do realize what the black market is right? What does it matter? Why, what does it matter if someone stole my 1969 camaro and it wasn't found with the guy until 2014 right?:lol:
 
Crackerjack said:
Oh, you mean how the U.S. government stole the Native Americans' lands...I guess all we European-Americans are going to have to move back to Europe and return the continent back to the Native Americans.

Please. Our government is so hypocritical it's ridiculous! How much land has our government taken (stolen) by force? How much tax money does it take in each year by coercion? Government prosecution of an old man for having artifacts "illegally" is the pot calling the kettle black!
Click to expand...

I'll tell ya what... if you don't like it, you can emigrate to another country... either that or stage a revolution. Fact is, your life revolves around the fact of the stuff you mentioned just like my life does. And guess what? I can think of many worse places to live with a heck of a lot more messed up stuff going on. So I will stay here.:cool:
 
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