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Looters hit Lewis and Clark National Historical Park

The Traveler

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
321
Location
Pacific Northwest
I don't like the way National Park Service and archaeologists in general treat us like we are all a bunch of selfish criminals. Unfortunately, I can't blame them when there are a few detectorists like these: https://www.dailyastorian.com/news/local/looters-hit-lewis-and-clark-national-historical-park/article_7150c982-61e6-11e9-8ab3-63856463b6fe.html

Whoever you are, I hope you are caught and punished. Yes, it sucks there are places we can't hunt. But you are only making it worse. How many more places are going to be off-limits now because Joe Landowner heard this story about indiscriminate looters using metal detectors?

Thanks, way to give us all a bad name.
 
They were quick to point out metal detectors but failed to say what could have made a hole that size. A normal detecting digging tool would take a long time to disturb that much dirt.

The crime itself is not defensible and the perpetrators need to be found and prosecuted. The thing that bothers me with these archeological sites is that they know they are there but they have no plan to ever excavate them and still don't want anyone else to do so. In their opinion it is better to leave them lost in the dirt than for anyone to get any enjoyment from them. What a waste.

Cliff
 
Couple of things :

1) This obviously has nothing to do with metal detecting. No md'r made a hole size and mess like that .

2) I have seen FIRST HAND where a sensitive monument spot raised and alarm and issued a "B.O.L" for md'rs, d/t they thought they saw evidence of md'rs . The evidence they pointed to was little wire marker flags that were spotted hither and yonder. And what appeared to be divot marks.

Later, after the B.O.L. was issued and spread around, it was discovered that it was the result of nothing more than boyscouts that were doing their geocaching exercises in the area.

POINT BEING: A lot times md'rs or "looters" get storied like this. When there is other explanations, that have nothing to do with md'ing or looting.
 
I agree with Tom and Cliff that the hole in that pic looks suspicious. And you are right that MD'ing will get blamed despite whether one was actually used.
 
“Up to 100 years old”? Did I read that right? That whole thing wasnt made by any metal detectorist Ive ever seen. Just another blowhard blaming us for the woes of the world...”evidence that metal detectors were used”? Really? Such as....WHAT? Someone left their Equinox there?:lol:
 
Could have been someone who found a few arrow heads Or something and decided to dig.
Or this was where the dump was in the park. And a not so smart metal detectorist (if we can call them this) decided to have at it.

Wonder if they (park officials) had a worthy detectorist to sweep the area to see if any metal period existed in area?

Probably not. You reckon?

Some evidence may have been attained by detecting the area. Hence dna or fingerprints on items. You never know the dummies may have buried something Intentionally or accidentally. Maybe even a body. Who knows.
 
Some evidence may have been attained by detecting the area. Hence dna or fingerprints on items. You never know the dummies may have buried something Intentionally or accidentally. Maybe even a body. Who knows.

Wouldn't that change the focus of the story? You may be right. Just because it looks like something was taken out doesn't mean something wasn't added.


Cliff
 
Wouldn't that change the focus of the story? You may be right. Just because it looks like something was taken out doesn't mean something wasn't added.


Cliff

We may hear more on this. One of those cadaver dogs should have been brought in. And a Minelab GPX detector with a big coil put over.

Wonder if someone went to a civil war battlefield (park) and buried a body.
And the park officials saw the dirt the next day. What would they think right off the bat??
Metal detectorist, right?
But oh no it’s someone who has committed a murder and buried a body.

Actually this is really the only logical thing it could be. Unless someone was burying their stash they stole somewheres.
 
Wouldn't that change the focus of the story? You may be right. Just because it looks like something was taken out doesn't mean something wasn't added.


Cliff

Perfect cover up for a body, you know the archaeologists will never dig it up, and they'll obviously assume something was taken from the historical site..

<°)))>{
 
Couple of things :

1) This obviously has nothing to do with metal detecting. No md'r made a hole size and mess like that .

2) I have seen FIRST HAND where a sensitive monument spot raised and alarm and issued a "B.O.L" for md'rs, d/t they thought they saw evidence of md'rs . The evidence they pointed to was little wire marker flags that were spotted hither and yonder. And what appeared to be divot marks.

Later, after the B.O.L. was issued and spread around, it was discovered that it was the result of nothing more than boyscouts that were doing their geocaching exercises in the area.

POINT BEING: A lot times md'rs or "looters" get storied like this. When there is other explanations, that have nothing to do with md'ing or looting.

My dad told me a long time ago, it is the newspapers job to "make" a good story with good headlines and sell newspapers. Well that has not changed, it just gets worse every day.

I doubt if this was the work of real metal detectorists. Maybe a couple of yahoos with a Harbor Freight detector they just bought.
 
Last edited:
Couple of things :

1) This obviously has nothing to do with metal detecting. No md'r made a hole size and mess like that .

2) I have seen FIRST HAND where a sensitive monument spot raised and alarm and issued a "B.O.L" for md'rs, d/t they thought they saw evidence of md'rs . The evidence they pointed to was little wire marker flags that were spotted hither and yonder. And what appeared to be divot marks.

Later, after the B.O.L. was issued and spread around, it was discovered that it was the result of nothing more than boyscouts that were doing their geocaching exercises in the area.

POINT BEING: A lot times md'rs or "looters" get storied like this. When there is other explanations, that have nothing to do with md'ing or looting.

I agree with you. Just last year here some neighborhood goof called the DNR police to say the that a guy with a metal detector(me) was digging up the park field and the holes were still their so he could prove it. Every hole was dug by a ground hog, But you couldn't tell this guy nothing. Even the DNR police told him it was a critter and he was dead set it was a person with a metal detector.
 
I agree with you. Just last year here some neighborhood goof called the DNR police to say the that a guy with a metal detector(me) was digging up the park field and the holes were still their so he could prove it. Every hole was dug by a ground hog, But you couldn't tell this guy nothing. Even the DNR police told him it was a critter and he was dead set it was a person with a metal detector.

Wow. People are so narrow minded!:lol:

This reminds me of the time I asked to detect a large field at the church I got married at, where my ex is even employed at, and they told me no because they said they couldn't have anyone leaving big holes out in the field that is used for absolutely NOTHING. When I pointed to the 20 or so groundhogs gorging themselves out there on clover, and the mounds of dirt from their holes, I was told that those critters holes are easier to fix than all of the "holes" I would be digging. Really???:roll:
 
... and they told me no because they said they couldn't have anyone leaving big holes out in the field ....

This is a perfect example of the mental image that some people have (understandably so) when confronted with the image of a "man with a metal detector". The immediate connotation is: "holes".

And .... of course , ...we won't leave holes. We'll cover, stomp, and fluff up our spots. Right ? But the only image that a passing busy-body has, is "A man digging holes".

You can knock yourself silly trying to convince them that this isn't the case. Or .... simply go when said-busy-body isn't present.
 
I had just unloaded my equipment from my car when a woman yelled at me about digging holes all over the park. Mind you I hadn't even started detecting yet. I looked behind her and told her to yell at the one doing it. A squirrel was looking for nuts.
 
I've often wondered why the US refuses to take a lesson from the UK government regarding artifact recovery? The UK has found a way to work in harmony with detectorists....

Normx2, this is a common misconception by USA md'rs. Who think there is some sort of great system in the UK, that "opens up sensitive sites to md'ing" and allows "carte blanche to sites", blah blah. As if there's a harmonious hand-holding of archies and md'rs.

But it's not . Look closer at the UK system you allude to, and you'll see it does NOT "open up sensitive sites" to md'ing. You have to bear in mind that in the UK, the "crown" owns all the resources under the ground. So that if you find oil on your farm-land, it's not going to be like the Beverly hillbillies and you're rich now. Instead, the "crown" owns any wealth under the ground . EVEN ON PRIVATE LAND. But here in the USA, if you find a cache, or oil, or treasure on your land, it's TOTALLY BETWEEN YOU AND FARMER BOB what you guys want to do with it, how you split it, how much you can sell it for, etc....

Why oh why oh why would anyone want it any differently ? Trust me: You do NOT want Uncle Sam meddling into what you find on private land, here in the USA.

And those UK laws do not open up sensitive public historic spots to md'ing. They too have oodles of sensitive spots that you can't detect at. And their laws do NOT "open up" those spots. Why do you think that 99% of UK hunting is done @ private land ?

So to think for a moment of trying to incorporate any such UK system to us, will immediately devolve into MORE regulations against us. Not for us. Nor will it "open up" places like this threads "Lewis & Clark Park" to md'ing. Just as in the UK: All such sensitive monument spots are NOT going to be a free-for-all nilly willy open detector season.
 
Don't remember indicating that the U.K. was all rainbows and unicorns, I just didn't realize how great we have it here??? I worked in London for 7 yrs and as I recall it seemed to work.

"Work" on/in what ? Private land finds, right ? (which is where 99% of all the UK md'ing occurs at, right ?).

Ok, then how isn't that "working" here in the USA ? You and I can hunt farmer Bob's field (just like they do in the UK) and keep and share and sell anything we find on Farmer Bob's land. Right ? Why oh why would you want a 3rd party meddling into that affair as to set/announce a value ? Or simply keep it and not sell at all. Why oh why would I want to give up that option ?

And we agree that they too have off-limits sites (Stonehenge, etc...) in the UK. That are just-as-much off-limits, as our NPS, etc.. is here in the USA. Right ? Ie.: their system that you say "works" has not opened up their sensitive historic monuments, any-more-so than our restrictions are here. Right ?

So what is there to be gained ? :?: As I say: This UK system is often mid-understood as a hand-holding of archies and md'rs, that somehow magically opens up off-limits sites. Nothing could be further from the truth. And look closely at UK archies comments, and you'll see that they too hate md'rs, just as much as the purist-archie-sector of the USA.
 
Don't remember indicating that the U.K. was all rainbows and unicorns, ....

Unless I mis-interpreted post # 14 here : It seemed that you were saluting the UK system, as somehow able to solve this thread's topic of the Lewis & Clark off-limits site.
 
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