Roadside easements?

Dont over think this...just wade the hell in there and have at it!...anybody asks, tell them to mind their own business!
Mud

To your first question, Re.: the dimensions of the road-right-of-way: It is measured from the center line of the road. As you surmise, the public property of the road does not end at the edge of the blacktop pavement. It includes the shoulder + a given distance beyond into the landscape.

If you were to see someone's fence or yard, well then obviously that would tell you where the public land ended, the private land started But assuming you see no such delineation, then it would be measured off the center line of the road. And that info would be at the public works or hwy. division. Or even on assessor's office's parcel maps would show this exact boundaries (in the same way they show the footprint of your house's property line).

But assuming there's no fence that obviously delineates the start of private property, and assuming no "private property" signs, then ...... if it were me, I wouldn't worry about it. Just as mud-puppy says. If there is some reason to think there were yesteryear fumble-finger's traffic there, then I'd hunt it.

As for the private property state signs, assuming it's just on naked road right-of-way land, I think you're looking at obligatory signage so no one thinks he can camp out and homestead it.

Not sure about the roadside easement, but doesn't sound like land that's really used for much. Worst case, you might get a warning, or simply educated, if it's not allowed. The clearly posted wooded areas, I'd respect the signs. Trespassing is illegal, a go to jail offense. Not like when we were kids, and warnings got lost in stacks of paper, filing cabinets. Everything goes on the computer. You won't get off easy too many times.

HarveyH48 said:

.... Trespassing is illegal, a go to jail offense....

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I can certainly imagine going-to-jail for a no-trespassing sign on private property.

But .... for the type obligatory signs put on road-right-of-way shoulders : Have you ever heard of anyone "going to jail" for walking or detecting there ? Perhaps if they camped out there and wouldn't leave, or some such obvious nuisance.

I work in road construction, and we are perpetually working on county and state roads. I see those obligatory signs all the time. Kind of like the signs at shopping center entrances that no one reads: "private property. Right to pass revokable", blah blah

Thanks guys. I see these pretty little areas just off the road all the time. 20 miles from my condo there's such little spots between a creek with small 4-5' old stone dams creating a retensoin pond. Looks like it could of been a small mill. Nothing there. No fenc, sign, ang right off the road. I just have to do it! Just to pretty to pass it up. Ground is stiff and the area is high elevation and got more snow than around me but soon, soon.

tinsmith said:

....Nothing there. No fenc, sign, ang right off the road. I just have to do it! Just to pretty to pass it up..

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Great. Harvey and I will bail you out of jail, in exchange for 50% of all your finds. JUST KIDDING HARVEY !

I don't know the easement on State CT roads, but my former "town" roads are 33 feet from center. But, in some older areas, you'd be on someone's lawn on a narrow road. A road easement is for future road space, not for allowing trespass/taking firewood, etc

Some CT State no trespass signs are at former DOT road-sand loading storage sites, old road picnic rest stops, etc, that have been abandoned for a long time.

On google maps, "legal/open" state forest is colored in green, but town open space is not.

I'd check your local towns websites for their walking trails/open spaces. My current town even lists historic features like dams, walls, and some mill locations

also, if you can think of any small traffic islands right next to a old town green, church, etc...that is where horse buggys/cars were parked. I found my first IH and buff, years ago, at a very tiny one. The green was cleaned out decades ago, but nobody walked over to that tiny strip

Good post CTwoods.

Some of the right-of-ways in the CA desert , for RR's or roads are IMMENSE. They go waaay out into the desert (since land was dirt-cheap and inhospitable I guess).

Have to ask why the state land has a no trespassing sign , are they useing for something ? If not I'd ask why , if it's not a hazardous dump site , think I'd take a stroll without the Md .
HH

Ricki7 said:

Have to ask why the state land has a no trespassing sign
HH

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Umm because they don't want people trespassing. .. usually what those signs mean...haha

Ricki7 said:

Have to ask why the state land has a no trespassing sign , are they useing for something ? If not I'd ask why , if it's not a hazardous dump site , think I'd take a stroll without the Md .
HH

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I certainly can't speak for all the areas (that have no buildings) that are marked by the State of CT, but the ones near me, are all former sites to harvest road sand, many many decades ago. I would think it's covering liability as these sites would be heavily used by off roaders, JMO

CT has quite a large amount of "open" forest, with legal access for foot travel. You'd need to check with each State Forest parcel, to see if it is legal to drive on the old fire roads. Some are gated/locked

There are many cellar sites in State Forests here.

As to answer the question on going into a State posted NO area, I simply would not go there. I don't like looking over my shoulder, because it's a hobby....not a stressful one

As I posted, the State has so much open land, and the State owns a lot more that is not listed as Forest.

I'm not going to say much more, but "ownership" of a tasty looking spot can be checked by some towns websites "plat maps". Some towns don't have it online, so you go to the town office to look it up. That spot might be listed under a certain State Agency, or by simply "State of CT".

so, if a plot of undeveloped land is not posted, and owned by the taxpayers, then .....

end of conversation.

Pics are 10 to 15 years old..but all are State Forest, or Town Open Space.

None were posted as No Trespassing...and the one pic of the antique porcelain State Fishing sign is way off the beaten path, or someone would have stolen it. It may be gone by now, I have not been back

CTwoods said:

Pics are 10 to 15 years old..but all are State Forest, or Town Open Space.

None were posted as No Trespassing...and the one pic of the antique porcelain State Fishing sign is way off the beaten path, or someone would have stolen it. It may be gone by now, I have not been back

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My my, you've found some very nice places there CTwoods. Thanks for sharing and that extremely cool stone root celler/ancient man made cavern? Is way way cool there bud!
I once discoverd "Open Space" in towns online. I wrote down the addresses of some nice sounding ones in the small town I grew up in. Once there it was not there!!! That sounds dumb but I mean there was a house close next door and the road where online stated you park on was actually a long driveway to a house and its private property. The exact spot your supposed to be able to walk through was fenced with old wire n barb and had an aging Real Estate for sale sign. I double checked.
Drove to the next and saw fence and private property. Well!!! Maybe its changed but its the dang little towns current website. Also fence was old. Put there long before we all had PC's.
I would never name this little town but will say it reminds me of a cable show where certain Rocky Mountain treasure hunters dig for gem stones.
And thank you Ctwoods for such a great contribution to my dumb thread.
Oh of coarse--- you too Tom!!!

Don't forget to look for old rest stops on historic aerials along the old highways. They won't be obvious today as most have been closed and are grown over with trees/foliage. All the original old highways had them. They were used for quick pit stops as well as picnic and overnights. I'm sure a little "Friggin in the Riggin" went on at these spots as well as the usual calls of nature, resulting in the outhouse metric.

I know of NO state where trespassing is a go to jail offense. HOWEVER I certainly do not know the laws in most states. In Michigan and Utah it is the lowest misdemeanor you can be charged with. It was a 50.00 fine when I was a cop in Utah.

In Michigan, it has to be posted with the signs so many feet apart. If it isn't posted, you have to be told you are trespassing. IF you move off the property you can NOT get a citation. If you stand your ground and the police are called you can then get a citation. I guess if you are an idiot and you refuse to move off for the officer, you can get arrested.

Here is a loophole in Michigan. If you are in a private lake with an owners permission, you can hunt anywhere on his property in the water or his land if he lets you. His property is a pie shaped piece all the way to the center of the lake. Lets say you venture over to the neighbors property wading in the water. If the owner tells you to move off you had better. If you don't you are trespassing.

HOWEVER, you are allowed to boat, scuba dive, and anchor anywhere in the lake. You just can't physically touch the bottom on somebodies piece of pie. Now if you are diving and you touch the bottom and they tell you not to. They actually have to SEE you touch the bottom AGAIN before you can be sited for trespassing.

Laws vary from state to state on trespassing. LEARN your own laws and follow them.

ScubaDetector said:

..... Now if you are diving and you touch the bottom and they tell you not to. They actually have to SEE you touch the bottom AGAIN before you can be sited for trespassing.....

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I've only scuba'd a half-dozen times. So maybe I'm not envisioning this correctly: Someone needs to "see you touch the lake-bottom" (versus merely swimming around @ mid-water depths). But .... wait ... maybe this is silly, but .... wouldn't they like-wise need-to-be scuba diving as well, to discern whether or not you "touched the bottom" , in order for you to be in some sort of "imminent legal trouble" ? Obviously if they're in their home or on the beach, this seems implausible.

Yet despite this, no doubt, underwater md'rs will "knock themselves silly with fear" and splitting hairs ?

Hey Tom, Scubadee's got some stories about that! pist off property people calling the cops on him and all...I remember hes never had any REAL trouble though...him being a LEO he can talk 'right' to the Man...

I doubt anything would scare off a dedicated scuba induced detector...except maybe a $10 ramp fee!

Funny to think of the conversation though..."But Officer, he's geezling around by my swim raft and muddying up the place"!
Mud

Tom_in_CA said:

I've only scuba'd a half-dozen times. So maybe I'm not envisioning this correctly: Someone needs to "see you touch the lake-bottom" (versus merely swimming around @ mid-water depths). But .... wait ... maybe this is silly, but .... wouldn't they like-wise need-to-be scuba diving as well, to discern whether or not you "touched the bottom" , in order for you to be in some sort of "imminent legal trouble" ? Obviously if they're in their home or on the beach, this seems implausible.

Yet despite this, no doubt, underwater md'rs will "knock themselves silly with fear" and splitting hairs ?

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They would have to see you touch somehow. Either by diving, snorkeling or something. And if you get a citation the officer isn't the complainant the homeowner has to testify.

And as I said, if they see you touch the first time, they have to tell you, you are trespassing. Kind of impossible if you never surface!

Another law I FORGOT to mention is, IF the lake has ANY KIND of public access AT ALL, NO homeowner owns ANY part of the bottom. They own only to the high water mark. So if the lake has a public beach, a public boat ramp, or a public stream or river going into it. The homeowners rights STOP DEAD when you reach the high water mark.

And as Mud stated, I have had the police called on me way over 20 times. I told one very rich jerk to leave me alone and go play with himself. The three officers that showed up couldn't stop laughing. The sgt called him a pompous jerk. Not to his face but when they came and talked to me.

Oh, yes, I have tons of stories. I have not seen the inside of a jail cell yet and yes I really have pushed the envelope. One officer got so mad, he said he was going to tow my truck. I said go ahead. I will sit here on the log till after it is gone. He got in his car and slammed the door. A couple of minutes later he rolled down the window, called me over APOLOGIZED and said I was right.

Would I suggest this to anybody? OF COURSE NOT. if you do NOT KNOW THE LAWS and you are intimidated, NO HARM in leaving to find out before you find yourself in jail.

I know what officers have to do. You have homeowners and very rich ones at that on lakes with waterfront and you have an outsider that lives hours away. The homeowners in the area are paying your salary. Who do you want to appease?? A stranger or the people that called.

In SLC a homeowner went to jail after confronting me. I was an off duty state cop and armed. He went WAY TO FAR by trying to kick me off a parking strip. Had a badge on his belt and said he was a cop. I went to reach for my wallet and he said to keep my hands where he could see them. I did, told him I wasn't moving and went back to detecting. He yelled someone is going to jail. He was right. About a half hour later two SLC police officers showed up. I put my detector down, raised my hands and said I am armed I am a state officer. One asked for my ID. I told them the story and he was arrested without any problems. He had a security guard badge on his belt and I knew it.

Last year I only had the police called once. I will educate them and I talk very civilly to them. One year 9 times in one lake alone.

Handle yourself in a professional way, if you don't know you are right, LEAVE. If you know you are right and you have the laws with you, argue politely if you want. BUT there is no harm in appeasing the people that believe the world is all theirs and come back another day.

I will say one more thing. IF you KNOW you are breaking the law but still want to steal someone elses money in the ground. YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

Mud, one lake it was worse than that. One suggested I was a child molester and I was diving under the kids to watch them. Rich folks have an easy life. SOME really think they own everything. That is a fact.

I have my drivers license number memorized. They ask my name and I just give them my number and say now you have all my information. You have no idea how many officers that impresses. Since I am diving, all my ID is in my truck anyway.