Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Deus vs v3i

the deus was designed to hit SMALL tiny roman hammered coins you can set it up and dig bb s all day if that makes you happy. Ive been watching and
participating in the debate on detectors for awhile . I have got a question how many actually PERSONALLY have tested detectors side by side or are you just going on what your heard? As for testing detectors you can throw off on that if you want ,but if you lay a nail down and a coin beside it and your detector wont hit it do you think it will magically perform better in the field? I hear people throwing off on test gardens too ok they are not perfect but can give you a GOOD idea of a detectors performance capabilitys .I will say this about the deus it weighs 2 pounds think about swinging a detector that weighs half of what your swinging. Some people say deep when speaking of their detectors I can hit a 14 silver quarter in my soil and a 15 inch silver half with a nine inch coil in my soil thats deep. Ok a fancy id screen put some trash in that mix or iron and what do you have ? Ive not seen the v3i in action but have the ctx it changes a little with iron and trash in the mix. I can say this whatever you are comfortable with use . For relics I use a lighting fast deep seeking whipping stick it tells me dig or dont dig at a high rate of speed, the ctx you have to swing like granny and the v3 i I have no idea have the swing speed is but it weighs double the deus. So some days I dig upwartds of a 100 targets I just need to know quickly dig or dont. thats my style of hunting and thats WHY my machine fits me.
 
calabash digger said:
As for testing detectors you can throw off on that if you want ,but if you lay a nail down and a coin beside it and your detector wont hit it do you think it will magically perform better in the field?
Click to expand...
Tests like nail-coin-nail or nail board test are just tests for the type of a coil but not a detector itself. 80% of success in these tests is due to coil used :cool:

More over, Deus is running poor on low frequency it has on board. If I were an US detectorist my favorite frequency for relic hunting would be 3 kHz. Hunting for US targets with high frequency is a great mistake ;)
 
Relics here in the US vary in size and materials with many of them being small low conductors. 18K is going to hit those low conductors better than 4k. I run my Deus in 18k almost exclusively.


SuchMuch said:
This means Deus miss deep / tiny signals.
Click to expand...


Thats news to me because mine has found literally dozens of tiny relics and coins on edge that were missed by my other detectors (including the V3i). The Deus hits deep tiny targets better than any machine I've used, period.
 
Last edited:
SuchMuch said:
Sorry to say, but I rate US targets as middle/high conductors :yes:
Click to expand...


Most U.S. coins are high conductors, but you originally said:
SuchMuch said:
my favorite frequency for relic hunting would be 3 kHz.
Click to expand...

Relics read all over the place with a big portion being low to mid level conductors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
pewter buttons? gold coin? The guy commenting on U.S relics is from across the pond correct? Have you ever hunted in the states and if so what did you find?
 
Rattlehead said:
Most U.S. coins are high conductors, but you originally said:


Relics read all over the place with a big portion being low to mid level conductors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
3 kHz being a low frequency is the best to pick up US targets those are high conductors in majority of cases and sometimes are middle conductors.

Look at the pics already shared in this thread. If I were hunting for such coins, I would choose 3 kHz
 

Attachments

  • 1.jpg
    1.jpg
    149.2 KB · Views: 291
  • 2.jpg
    2.jpg
    153.1 KB · Views: 287
  • 3.jpg
    3.jpg
    66.4 KB · Views: 306
calabash digger said:
pewter buttons? gold coin?
Click to expand...
How thick gold coin is? What diameter this coin is? Have no idea what pewter button is.

calabash digger said:
pewter buttons? gold coin? The guy commenting on U.S relics is from across the pond correct?
Click to expand...
correct

calabash digger said:
Have you ever hunted in the states and if so what did you find?
Click to expand...
Never hunted :cool: So what? Understanding target parameters (dims, weight, material) detectorist can conclude how conductive target is and choose right frequency
 
Deus is no1 in the UK for tiny low conductors on on very busy sites, many of these fall into the foil range.
 
SuchMuch said:
3 kHz being a low frequency is the best to pick up US targets those are high conductors in majority of cases and sometimes are middle conductors.

Look at the pics already shared in this thread. If I were hunting for such coins, I would choose 3 kHz
Click to expand...

Again, those are coins my friend. You originally said relics. Yes most US coins are high conductors. Relics are all over the place with many being low/mid conductors.

I think maybe you are confusing coin shooting with relic hunting. May be different where you are, but here we classify those as two different types of hunting. You originally said 3 kHz is best for relic hunting, which isn't the case since many relics (small buttons, bullets, and other campsite/battlefield artifacts) are low/mid conductors.
 
Toasted said:
If anything, the Deus will up average deep coins so the VDI will be a bit higher than normal on a the deeper ones. Ive dug a lot of deep silver dimes that id in 18khz at 96-97 that shallower would be 92-93.

Good sounding tones that dont give a vdi are usually foil or other small trash. Those type of tones will be a little more broken anyway
Click to expand...

This is true for higher frequencies. If your machine does not normalize to a standard frequency (like Whites detectors do - all frequencies on the V3i for example normalize to 6.59khz), lower frequencies will produce lower VDIs than the same target does at a higher frequency. This is one of the reasons why you should use as low a frequency as possible when hunting for deep silver in ground where ground balance is -95. Higher frequencies can cause big silver to wrap and appear to be iron. Lower frequencies skew VDI lower, so there is not so much a risk for wrapping.
 
calabash digger said:
take a v3i ,f75,etrac deus lay a nail long ways put a coin at the end of it and sweep it one way going over the nail first let me know how far the coin has to be away from the nail before the detectors pick it up.
Click to expand...

This is a rather dubious test. Iron response is orientation dependent. Sweeping the length of the nail will produce a different response than it will sweeping across it perpendicular to the length. Change the angle of the nail by 90 degrees and put the coin next to it. How is it then?

When you encounter nails in the wild, the are not going to be in a perfect configuration. They are going to be at various orientations along all three axis of rotation - not to mention often bent, broken, and corroded to various degrees. Thoroughly corroded iron will appear as a good target.

Add to this that coins are seldom perfectly flat in the ground...

If you want a better test of how your detector response to nails/adjacent coins, it is best to test at various angles, straightness, and corrosion level. For an added twist, change the orientation of the coin - 30 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees, and 90 degrees. See how your machine response then. It is the better indicator of a machine's performance.

There are other factors that are very relevant to this test:

Recovery delay for the detector compared to sweep speed of the person swinging the detector - if you swing too slow for the recovery speed, you are going to get multiple hits on the same target, masking others. If you swing too fast, you are going to mask targets.

The operating frequency of the detector - iron responds stronger at higher frequencies, high conductors response stronger at lower frequencies

ground balance, etc.

I will do a very in depth test on the V3i once I have clear ground. I dig tons of targets that have a friendly neighborhood nail.
 
ok nice write up but how far does the coin have to be away from the nail before the v3i will pick it up ? sweeping the nail first 1 inch 2 inch 3 inch or 4? My point is this a machine that has to have the coin 3 or 4 inchs away from the nail before it will hit it is more handicapped by masking than a machine that can hit it on the end or a inch away from it.
BottleCapKing said:
This is a rather dubious test. Iron response is orientation dependent. Sweeping the length of the nail will produce a different response than it will sweeping across it perpendicular to the length. Change the angle of the nail by 90 degrees and put the coin next to it. How is it then?

When you encounter nails in the wild, the are not going to be in a perfect configuration. They are going to be at various orientations along all three axis of rotation - not to mention often bent, broken, and corroded to various degrees. Thoroughly corroded iron will appear as a good target.

Add to this that coins are seldom perfectly flat in the ground...

If you want a better test of how your detector response to nails/adjacent coins, it is best to test at various angles, straightness, and corrosion level. For an added twist, change the orientation of the coin - 30 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees, and 90 degrees. See how your machine response then. It is the better indicator of a machine's performance.

There are other factors that are very relevant to this test:

Recovery delay for the detector compared to sweep speed of the person swinging the detector - if you swing too slow for the recovery speed, you are going to get multiple hits on the same target, masking others. If you swing too fast, you are going to mask targets.

The operating frequency of the detector - iron responds stronger at higher frequencies, high conductors response stronger at lower frequencies

ground balance, etc.

I will do a very in depth test on the V3i once I have clear ground. I dig tons of targets that have a friendly neighborhood nail.
Click to expand...
 
BottleCapKing said:
The operating frequency of the detector - iron responds stronger at higher frequencies, high conductors response stronger at lower frequencies
Click to expand...
Low frequency identifies iron better than non ferrous metals. In addition to this, high conductors (copper coins, large silver coins) are very brief among iron and hunting with low frequency coil (3 khz) is preferable on trashy site, however any coil with frequency not higher than 7 kHz could be used. By the way, large copper coins produce signal 4 times stronger on low freq. coil than if it was high freq. coil

High frequency identifies non ferrous metals better than iron.
Low conductors produce signal several (I don't remember exact number) times stronger on high freq. coil than if it was low freq. coil
 
SuchMuch said:
Low frequency identifies iron better than non ferrous metals. In addition to this, high conductors (copper coins, large silver coins) are very brief among iron and hunting with low frequency coil (3 khz) is preferable on trashy site, however any coil with frequency not higher than 7 kHz could be used. By the way, large copper coins produce signal 4 times stronger on low freq. coil than if it was high freq. coil

High frequency identifies non ferrous metals better than iron.
Low conductors produce signal several (I don't remember exact number) times stronger on high freq. coil than if it was low freq. coil
Click to expand...

I never said anything about identification. I said RESPONSE. Ferrous materials generate a stronger induced field as the frequency increases (due in part to the fact iron is a poor conductor). The greater problem with iron is that It will produce a stronger induced field than a non-ferrous object with the exact same geometry, depth, orientation, and conductivity. That is just the nature of ferrous materials.

Iron is easy to identify at any frequency because it responds differently dependent upon its orientation. Going "with the grain" as it were will give you one response and it will seem like a good target. Rotate 90 degrees and you get an entirely different target that does not look good at all.

Small silver coins are just as conductive as large silver coins assuming they are made of the same alloy.

Using the term "several times stronger" is a poor choice of words. The reason low conductive materials response better at high frequencies than they do at low frequencies is the skin depth (how deep the eddy currents flow). In low conductive materials, the skin depth is greater a higher frequencies than it is at lower frequencies. The opposite is true of highly conductive materials - the skin depth decrease as the frequency increases. The greater the skin depth, the deeper the eddy currents, and the stronger the induced magnetic field will be. Of course there are other consideration - geometry, orientation with respect to the transmit field, depth, temperature, etc.
 
SuchMuch said:
Now it's clear :laughing: Relics in my understanding include coins as well
Click to expand...

I started to realize it was just a misunderstanding when I saw your pics. :cheers:

Here in the states coins haven't been in circulation nearly as long as those on the other side of the pond, so its pretty easy to narrow down a select range where coins will ring up. With this knowledge, we have a large group of hunters here who will only dig signals which fall into the coin range. Coin shooters. As relic hunters, we're looking for a wide variety of targets which read all over the scale.. Many being tiny low/mid level conductors.
 
calabash digger said:
ok nice write up but how far does the coin have to be away from the nail before the v3i will pick it up ? sweeping the nail first 1 inch 2 inch 3 inch or 4? My point is this a machine that has to have the coin 3 or 4 inchs away from the nail before it will hit it is more handicapped by masking than a machine that can hit it on the end or a inch away from it.
Click to expand...


As long as I use the right swing speed/recovery delay, I can detect a coin touching the point of the nail. It will be an odd signal, but, at depth, I will dig all "odd" signals. Odd signals in my experience occur when there are two different targets with widely different conductivity are under the coil. The oddity of the signal decreases as the size of the coin used in the test increases. I started out using a dime, because that is the most common silver coin I find is.

I tested this after I saw that video, using a straight, moderately corroded square nail, using both the 6x10DD and the stock 10DD. No discrimination. BCR of 4. Both 3-freq and 2.5khz. I have not tried this on the 950 mostly because I will get better separation using a DD.

The beauty of the V3i is the wealth of information you get dependent upon how you configure it. I plan on doing more testing in the future with various orientations and structural integrity of the nail. That is a better test. How good a high end detector is comes down to how well the user knows it and what information can be gleaned from what the machine is telling you.

A perfectly laid out, "incredibly unlikely to ever happen in the field" test is not a very good representation of anything. It is akin to "air testing", which I believe to be another over-rated test. Not to mention that you won't swing in one direction, across the nail and over the coin and just stop there. On the back swing, you are going to catch the coin first and then the nail. Recovery delay and swing speed...
 
Rattlehead said:
With this knowledge, we have a large group of hunters here who will only dig signals which fall into the coin range. Coin shooters.
Click to expand...
Don't they realize that deep targets (whatever conductive qualities they have) fall into hot rock zone/ground zone or iron zones? Shooting only brief signals in coin zone is the way to loose deep coins
 
Thing is the Deus has problems running in lower frequencies when around EMI. Running 12 and 18khz has produced plenty for me and will hit mid conducters better
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Minelab Sale
Replies
5
Views
139
SS_Wonder
S
J
Xcal coil question
Replies
0
Views
68
jimsvillage
J
Digging Prayers
Legend 1.14 Beast Mode Downgrad Problem.
Replies
4
Views
231
Digging Prayers
Digging Prayers
S
Excalibur II question - False signals in salt water waves
Replies
5
Views
115
jimsvillage
J
J
Does anyone know the frequencies used in the Nokta Score/Double Score?
Replies
2
Views
145
tnsharpshooter
T
Back
Top Bottom