metal detecting laws for different countries - making the map

here's what i could do so far:

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31592463/europemapblank.png.html
http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31592468/worldmapblank.png.html

and help, hints, ideas or corrections are welcome.

St.Mark

Problem is, laws change, ordinances change, rules change, cities get absorbed by other cities, land changes hands etc...

The map would require constant changing, fact checking, and, depending on who you ask many times depends on what is and isn't allowed here in the USA.

Wish you the best on your venture!

the US

Hello ! I agree with you. certainly true for the US, but also many other parts of the world. on the map the US however would be one entity, cause there already exists a map for it.

http://www.mdhtalk.org/maps/fp-map-regulations.htm

Hello St. Mark. To expand on what Nectar says:

Your intention in noble. Many people have tried to do what you are doing. On the surface, it makes absolute sense. Then md'rs can simply refer to the list, and know when/where/how, right ? Oh but if it were only that simple.

Unfortunately, you will get as many answers, as there people (authorities) you ask. Or if you choose the method of looking them up for yourself (so that you don't run afoul of silly arbitrary answers that aren't actually written as true laws), then you will forever be wondering if ancillary stuff doesn't apply.

What I mean by that is: You might not find anything that says "no detecting" or anything about permits. Yet you might find verbiage about cultural heritage. Or laws about disturbing vegatation. Or laws about "harvest and remove", etc... Ok, hmmm, does that mean "no detecting" or doesn't it ? And you know the drill: If you asked desk-bound bureaucrats, in order to compile your list, they will in turn pass the "pressing question" on to purist archies. Well gee, what do you think the answer will be ?

Such has been the dilemma forever when attempting to compile such lists. Someone passes back down a "no", where, quite frankly , it was never an issue or problem before. So long as you're not snooping around obvious historic sensitive monuments, being a nuisance, etc....

Also figure in that any laws you might admittedly find (that truly said "no detecting"), might only apply to federal land. Or to state land. Or to public lands of some level. And yet not apply to private land with permission (which is outside the scope of laws applying to public land afterall). Or you might find some scary verbiage, yet, upon closer scrutiny, once you find out its based in cultural heritage laws, then it logically doesn't apply to modern targets. And bear in mind that "modern" in some European countries can be 500 yr. or newer, doh!

So while your list sounds like a good idea, it will be fraught with problems. And if you go to try to "un-ravel" those problems by asking pencil-pushers on govt. staffs, you end up doing nothing but swatting hornet's nests, and getting a bunch of people with "BOL's" on their mind from then on out.

Tom perfectly outlined the difficulty with making a list or map outlining where you can or can't metal detect. I lived in Panama and Colombia and my understandings of the laws changed (and continue to change) constantly.

strange case, watson..

thanks everybody for the much appreciated input.

you are simply voicing what i also have observed. that metal detecting laws not only are hard to pin down. but are also enforced and interpreted differently at different times for different people in different situations.

i just thought it would be great to have such a map. but if nobody seems interested to have it let alone make it, i think i'm not gonna put more time into it.

i am also not gonna start taking on a hobby that involves confrontations with cops, foresters or guard rangers.i've had more than enough of this in the past. if i dig somewhere it'll probably be in the UK, norway or switzerland.

i have yet to dig out my first coin. never even held a detector in hand.

cheers and happy hunting to everybody.

St.Mark

Hope you do get into the hobby more and find some coins with your detector. Enjoy your hobby, learn local laws, and have fun bud!

http://www.denkmalpflege-bw.de/denk...kmalpflege/raubgraeber-und-sondengaenger.html

where I live detectorists are hunted like rabbits. i'm not gonna start this hobby in this ridiculous country. if you wanna call it that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygd41wO4-FY

St.Mark said:

.....i just thought it would be great to have such a map. but if nobody seems interested to have it let alone make it, i think i'm not gonna put more time into it....

Click to expand...

St. Mark, it's not that "nobody is interested in doing it". On the contrary, we'd ALL love to have a compendium quick reference guide like that . WHO WOULDN'T ? so it's not that it's not that "no one wants it", or that "it wouldn't be a great idea". It's that: It's impossible to make. As you will risk finding yourself at the psychology of "no one cared .... UNTIL you asked" phenomenon.

St.Mark said:

.... i am also not gonna start taking on a hobby that involves confrontations with cops, foresters or guard rangers...

Click to expand...

Two things to say about this:

1) For starters, how can this hobby be so "imminently dangerous" and "certain to involve confrontations with cops", if you say yourself:

St.Mark said:

..... officially, but there are people who detect anyway.......

Click to expand...

You're right. There's no shortage of md'rs there (in fact, they post a lot of FMDF). And they are not involved in "confrontations with cops, rangers, foresters, etc.... " So how can it be so hard to find places to safely go (and avoid such lookie-lou busy-bodies), if so many other Germans do it with ease ?

2) Admittedly there comes a point in this hobby, where you/we *do* have to realize that .... not every one is going to roll out the red carpets for you. Yes it's true that you can't go to a purist archie convention and waltz over their beach blankets with your detector.

Think of it a little like nose-picking: An activity that you ... uh ... use a little discretion in your timing, so as not to offend squeemish people. Ie.: Yes this hobby is a bit "odd" (a curiosity that draws admitted connotations). If it bothers you that not every last person on earth will hug you, then yes, this hobby is not for you.

St.Mark said:

http://www.denkmalpflege-bw.de/denk...kmalpflege/raubgraeber-und-sondengaenger.html

where I live detectorists are hunted like rabbits....

Click to expand...

This link is in German. Mind telling us what it says ?

If this is some "scary link" you've found, hosted by archaeologist bureaucrats, then let me save you some time: There's not a country on the planet you can't go to, and find "scary links" that .... on the surface, .... will make an md'r feel like a "hunted rabbit". They can indeed pull verbiage out-of-a-hat that make it sound like you're in for big trouble if you dared metal detect.

We get that in the USA too, where .... some archie goes on the news, or makes a website, that totally lamblasts md'ing. Making it sound as if it's illegal, etc...

Example: Some purist archie got wind of a bottle digger in the state of Oregon years ago (d/t he was profiled on a news show, showing off his dug bottle collection). The archie went ballistic and published letters-to-the-editor lambasting this fellow for "destroying the past", etc... The curious part of the archie's rant, was that he said, in various terms and hints, that detecting and bottle digging was "illegal on all public land" . In that state, and perhaps he thinks across the entire USA too ?. How does he arrive at such a conclusion ? Simple: By "ARPA" . He incorrectly thinks it subrogates down to all levels of land. Ie.: since the state is a sub-part of the fed, then it subrogates down to that. And since cities are a sub-part of the state, then it subrogates down to city lands as well. And so forth. Obviously this is bullcr*p, and detecting goes on ALL THE THE TIME on public lands in the USA.

So I put very little stock into what some purist archie's say. When the reality is, no one else really cares less. If it means avoiding purist archie conventions? Fine, just avoid those lone individuals. If it bothers someone that these type folks won't "roll out the red carpets for you", then yes, detecting is not for you.

https://translate.google.de/transla...ber-und-sondengaenger.html&edit-text=&act=url

ok google translate can not just translate sentences, but also entire websites (more or less). so here's the link for you (above).

you don't understand. i've been in jail in the US and since i returned to germany i've had nothing but trouble with the german authorities. i hate the government and want as little as possible to do with them. in fact i try to eliminate all possible unpleasant "surprizes".. that's why I tick the way I tick. Even tho its probably out of touch for you or others its simply a reaction to the experiences I've had in the past.

St. Mark, thanx for the translation. As I expected, it's from archies. So too can there be scary websites and brochures they put out in the USA and Britain too, detailing "fines", "looting", etc.... But as you see, there's no shortage of places to detect in the USA and Britain, so long as you're not snooping on archaeological sites . Like in the USA for example, ARPA can sound pretty durned daunting ! But upon closer scrutiny, only applies to federal land. Not "all public land". And CERTAINLY not to private land. But the average purist archie, in creating a website, will, of course, make things sound as dire-as possible.

I haven't gone into detailed study of your link, to see exactly what type sites, finds, lands, etc... it applies to. And I do seem to recall that in the various German states, some lacked the more dire-sounding wording. While others had verbiage (perhaps your state) that does indeed seem to apply to all-public land.

So assume for the moment that you're in one-such state (for sake of argument): Then if you read closely:

a) it's for public land. Then presto, why not just go to private land (farmer fields with permission, where old villas once stood) ? Private land would be outside the scope of those laws. Why do you think that British hunters are doing 99% of their hunting on private land afterall ??

b) It's only for modern objects. Hence nothing to stop you from plying the beach for modern jewelry and coins ? But if you want to just keep it simple, just stick to private land.

As you've said yourself: There's no lack of md'ing in Germany. And those persons are within the scope of the law I would assume (lest they wouldn't be posting their show & tell items publicly on FMDF, eh ? Lest they be tracked down and arrested ??). Perhaps you are in a particularly special situation with your legal status . Like you have a record, and can't even risk a scram, or someone running your name into a data-base, or some sort of parole terms, or .... ? If so, then how about stick to private property with permission ?

St.Mark said:

I wanted to make two maps, one for europe, the other for the world, to show where MD is allowed, and where not.

Click to expand...

Tom_in_CA said:

And bear in mind that "modern" in some European countries can be 500 yr. or newer, doh!

Click to expand...

For Europe you can start with the Valletta Treaty St.Mark.
This one is basicly leading for all the EU countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valletta_Treaty

The problem with this Valletta Treaty is that each country makes it's own rules around it. But in the core it has to be within this VT.
This VT say's 50 years.

You're right Tom_in_CA.
In my country the rules are 50 years, as in the VT. But that isn't reasonable.
I myself in my hunting career found me many thousends of objects and coins of 50y and older. On each hunt i find myself at least 10+ recognizable finds older than 50y, and then the 50yo unrecognizable trash too. Regular hunts i find up to dozens. My top day was near 200 finds between 3000bc and 1500 ad. We are with about 10.000 hunters, so you can recone.
If we would all report all 50yo finds as the law wants, the archeologistst get themselves a thousand times more work, and get crazy. Or there should become hundreds to thousands more personal but for that there's no money available.

So we have to report 500 years and older, or less than 500 years old if archeological or historical interesting (like traces of battle, or gold hoards).
And in my case that are about 850 reported finds up to now (which is quite high).

Yours is a noble, but impossible goal, every city or county can make it's own rules and those can change with every new administraion who takes office...