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  #21  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
I think that has to do with how fbs behaves in ground and not so much the halo but I might be wrong.. My deus air test at 12 to 14 inchs on some non ferrous coin sized targets ... if the halo theory is true why am I not digging 18 inch non ferrous coin sized targets on these ancient sites??? We have dug thousands upon thousands of non ferrous targets off these sites ... but non past air test capabilities. All I'm saying is on these old site I have never dug a target past what my detector will air test on and some of these sites date back to the early 1700s... It might happen but imo its not the norm.. BTW the deepest coin sized target ive ever dug was 13 inchs in the ground. It was a small oval colonial buckle..
I don't have an answer for you. The deepest coins I have dug in soil have been 12 inches (with the same detector). I wish I could get beach depths in the soil! Maybe my soil isn't wet enough. Maybe my ground is too mineralized. dunno!

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  #22  
Old 12-20-2017, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
My deus air test at 12 to 14 inchs on some non ferrous coin sized targets ... if the halo theory is true why am I not digging 18 inch non ferrous coin sized targets on these ancient sites???
Because halo effect/halo theory doesn’t say your detector will see objects deeper than they’ll air test - it just says your detector will see a target with a halo deeper than it would if the target didn’t have a halo.

Sure, you’ll probably never see a particular target type deeper than it air tests on a given machine - air offers minimal resistance compared to soil. Maybe a particular machine air tests a non-fe coin sized object at 13 inches. Freshly buried in the ground (no halo effect), maybe that machine only detects it down to 8 or 9 inches. Buried in the ground for 130 years (halo effect becomes a factor), the machine sees it down to 10 inches. Wet that ancient ground with a nice rainstorm, and maybe you’ll see that target as deep as 11 inches.

Originally Posted by calabash Digger View post
All I'm saying is on these old site I have never dug a target past what my detector will air test on and some of these sites date back to the early 1700s... It might happen but imo its not the norm.. BTW the deepest coin sized target ive ever dug was 13 inchs in the ground. It was a small oval colonial buckle..
That makes perfect sense...and I’m guessing that if we freshly buried that buckle 13 inches down and packed everything down to match the same soil density and compaction at the original site, your detector will probably miss the target because there’s no halo (or maybe more accurately, you’d choose to skip it). Come back in 100 years - you get your squeaker and dig.

All the above is just my opinion based on my understanding of the science behind the halo effect, and my understanding of air testing. My lowly Ace 400 air tests some coins down to 10-12”, but I’m definitely not finding anything that deep in the ground, nor do I expect to even with a halo! Deepest coin I’ve dug so far is an 8” Merc with an iffy, but interesting signal. Was I helped by a halo? Probably. Dug it on a day after a series of big rains. I had hunted the same spot previously in bone dry conditions and missed it.

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  #23  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:25 AM
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I have hunted the same sites when it was bone dry and when it was wet. Have seen the ground come alive when its wet and targets where flying out everywhere... Was that the halo? If you answer yes let me tell you my problem with that theory. I have freshly buried coins (silver and copper) in my test garden some have been there over a year.. what happens to machines in my test garden when its wet? They ALL smack the deep targets way better. So my findings are detectors perform better on deep stuff when the grounds wet BUT that cant be because of a halo because in my garden they havent been there long enough to form one.. Bury a coin at 8 inchs in dry ground test your machine on it and then wet the ground and test it again you will see what I mean. I don't mean to seem like the scourge about the halo effect but I would rather know facts and not think my detector doing something that its not really doing like seeing coin sized objects way deeper than it test. Does anybody know the science why detectors perform better in wet ground???

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  #24  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:47 AM
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Now I'm just guessing here Calabash but I'm thinking the wet ground is more conductive and allows the transmitted signal to penetrate slightly deep because the moisture in the ground has a connection from the surface to deep in the ground allowing the signal to go deeper. In return, the excited metal from the transmitted signal then reacts by putting off its own reaction, be it conductive or ferrous, and again the continuous conductor of the moisture to the surface allows a stronger signal to reach the receiver of the detector giving a better overall performance.

I have personally witnessed the "halo" effect many times over the years so I do believe there is some scientific reason behind it. What it is I don't know, I just know I have seen it. Not very often and only under special conditions. Not enough to rely on so I just call it getting lucky. Fact still remains my experience has been only under these far and few between conditions will a detector ever get better depth in the ground and in an air test.

I know it will rub some the wrong way, but, I just feel the air test is going to give you your best case depth. Of course with the rare exception of the right conditions, but if the air test is done correctly that will be your best dept.

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  #25  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:05 AM
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IMO halo effect is BS.

So, if the halo effect was true, had weight.

This would mean a person should be able to take the same detector back in to a site say 30-50 years from now, after depleting the site originally, and pop these beyond airtest coins.
Or even pop some some below airtest depths.

I mean a tilted coin with "halo" should be seen better with time right??

Reports generally in the field, Injust don't see this being reported.

Now, remember I am not saying a detector won't alert on a metal object beyond air test distances, I'm just saying halo is not the reason IMO.

All IH buried should have halo effect right?
Where are the super deep ones being reported dug?

I ain't doing it or have done..(digging them).

Actually I could make a better case the halo effect has a negative affect for detecting.
And IMO fbs/fbs2 may be better at detecting these.
The supposed halo could be seen by a detector as a ground anomaly.
And fbs/fbs2 does a better job at thwarting (weeding out, not getting fooled) by this halo.

I mean, I had rather see a detector see a quick ramp up with conductivy.
Halo could if a detector will even see, could cause the ramp up to be more gradual, hence not alert.

Surely folks don't think the halo effect means detector actually sees a bigger target.

Also, halo effect (this decomposing) the coin in question has lost mass.
So in effect a smaller coin to detect.
Another way to say halo effect has a negative effect on detection.

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  #26  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:14 AM
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This would mean a person should be able to take the same detector back in to a site say 30-50 years from now, after depleting the site originally, and pop these beyond airtest coins.
Or even pop some some below airtest depths.
And they do! Why do you think I go back to sites year after year that I have hunted to death and search the same locations only to find a new keepers.

The "Halo effect" is simple to reproduce and scientifically sound. Take a piece of iron, since it will create halo much quicker that a coin, and put it in the ground for 50-100 years. What happens is each time the ground become wet the iron will begin to break down and leach out to the surrounding ground thus creating a bigger/halo of the original piece. All metal does this to varying degrees.

In fact I take advantage of this halo effect on iron to help minimize the amount of iron I dig. If I get an iffy at extreme depth on my E-Trac it will grunt. Hum, is it iron or is it conductive. Stomp the ground a few good hard time on the spot and check it again. Most of the time the vibration from the stomp will breakup the iron halo and cause it to now give a false. A conductive target will often not only remain good, but get even stronger if it was being slightly masked by the halo of a nearby piece of iron which is now broken up.

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  #27  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Detector View post
In fact I take advantage of this halo effect on iron to help minimize the amount of iron I dig. If I get an iffy at extreme depth on my E-Trac it will grunt. Hum, is it iron or is it conductive. Stomp the ground a few good hard time on the spot and check it again. Most of the time the vibration from the stomp will breakup the iron halo and cause it to now give a false. A conductive target will often not only remain good, but get even stronger if it was being slightly masked by the halo of a nearby piece of iron which is now broken up.
I predict a lot of people are going to give you !!!! about target stomping, but I've used it before and it does work some times!

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  #28  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:38 AM
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it does work some times!
I will agree. But it does. some times.

Normally I'd call BS myself, but I have used it many times and it does work. Some times. I freaked out first time I got a iffy and it just grunted on my E-Trac. I stomped the ground a couple times real hard and the signal went from a grunt to a nice solid tone. Popped out and Indian Head at a good 10". I'm a believer because I use it and it works for me.

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  #29  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:46 AM
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I get the iron decomposing but what about silver? My thing is I hunt OLD sites and this halo effect should be there on non ferrous targets and its just non exsistant where I'm at. I'm just not digging non ferrous targets deeper than my machine air test or the deep ones I have in my test garden.. yeah I dig super deep iron sometimes but I'm really talking about silver and copper...

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  #30  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:48 AM
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Isnt that just the opposite of what it should have done if the halo is true? Didn't you break the halo? Or was there iron in the hole too?
Originally Posted by Detector View post
I will agree. But it does. some times.

Normally I'd call BS myself, but I have used it many times and it does work. Some times. I freaked out first time I got a iffy and it just grunted on my E-Trac. I stomped the ground a couple times real hard and the signal went from a grunt to a nice solid tone. Popped out and Indian Head at a good 10". I'm a believer because I use it and it works for me.

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  #31  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
. I'm just not digging non ferrous targets deeper than my machine air test or the deep ones I have in my test garden.. yeah I dig super deep iron sometimes but I'm really talking about silver and copper...
Maybe you need a better detector! I hear the Minelab is releasing something new soon.

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  #32  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:09 AM
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yeah I'm only hitting 10 1/2 inch silver dimes in my soil might need a better one

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  #33  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:37 AM
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Isnt that just the opposite of what it should have done if the halo is true? Didn't you break the halo? Or was there iron in the hole too?
Yes on both. It is backwards of what I would have expected but I'm guessing there must have been an iron halo that had leached from a piece of iron nearby that once broke up allowed the better conductive signal.

All I can say is to try it. No it isn't 100% but it has become a common process for me on those really deep iffy's that could be iron or coin. More often than not it will change once you stomp it. Trust the stomp LOL.

As far as silver and gold they won't halo as much as copper, but the stomp will change the ground matrix and in doing so change the returned signal.

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  #34  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:13 AM
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If you seen my videos then you have seen my the ground I hunt in very easy to dig so I just dig the iffys and I will leave the stomping up to you guys ....

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  #35  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:10 AM
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Its a good Winter Discussion! So I'll jump in with my infield observations...Y'all know I run a set of rigs, the F70 and the AtPro...I hardly ever Ground balance, maybe these two do it automatically? I dont know...anyway, I do know this, on damp or wet clean sand, Both will hit targets a lot deeper than on an Air test...

When I first fire up my rigs for a hunt, I wave my wedding ring hand over the top of the coil to see if my settings are depth capable to the situation and my interests...OK, so on wet sand, Man, even running half strength, air test of my ring at about 6", I'm pulling similar targets a lot deeper than that!...crazy stupid deep!

When I'm hunting on the dirt, I'm after shallow jewelry and clad, and want to quick broom...I will stomp deeper targets to crispen up the signal, or flatten the grass, it does work or I wouldnt do it...on the same place with the same settings I've hunted hundreds of times, somedays a guy is pulling real deep pings...on account of the dirt moisture balance or a host of other reasons..Somedays, its just alive with signals....

On the snow sled hills, which I assume would be similar to an air test...I gotta really jack up my settings to get in an effective hunt to hit targets at 8"...same with dry wood chips in the totters...wet chips really add a few inches of depth and are a joy to hunt like wet sand...

Ground Moisture Conditions seems to be a determining factor...a wet surface of fresh rain or frost on top of dry dirt/sand really hampers depth and crisp signals I've noticed.....thats like the worst conditions for me! As opposed to a evenly saturated base, or one that gets gradually damper on the way down.......I think a 'surface damp over dry base' abrupt change in an inverted 'dampness thermal incline' really confuses a rig...I do know I dont like it, its so obviously a hindrance...and I have to slow way down to make pay in those conditions....

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  #36  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:18 AM
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I popped a half dollar at like 16ish inches once... The halo on it was HUGE, like 3 or 4 times the size of the coin in the white clay like soil. That soil was very mean to the coin, First time I have seen silver corroded like that.
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  #37  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
Ground Moisture Conditions seems to be a determining factor...a wet surface of fresh rain or frost on top of dry dirt/sand really hampers depth and crisp signals I've noticed.....thats like the worst conditions for me!
While I havent seen that happen with my minelabs, I have heard the exact same from other AT-Pro users. Thats one of those things where it pays to know the intricacies of your machine!

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  #38  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:48 AM
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You guys are so discouraging. I guess my hopes of finding haloed 10 inch dimes with my Amigo II was just a pipe dream.

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  #39  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by calabash digger View post
I think that has to do with how fbs behaves in ground and not so much the halo but I might be wrong.. My deus air test at 12 to 14 inchs on some non ferrous coin sized targets ... if the halo theory is true why am I not digging 18 inch non ferrous coin sized targets on these ancient sites??? We have dug thousands upon thousands of non ferrous targets off these sites ... but non past air test capabilities. All I'm saying is on these old site I have never dug a target past what my detector will air test on and some of these sites date back to the early 1700s... It might happen but imo its not the norm.. BTW the deepest coin sized target ive ever dug was 13 inchs in the ground. It was a small oval colonial buckle..


Probably because the laws of physics give a natural limit to how far that detection field is capable of returning the signal under any circumstances. Depth potential is not unlimited....at some point you come to the end At 12 to 14 inches you are likely already pushing the limits of whats even possible...halo or not. Much past that depth , even the halo effect is not gonna make much difference. Now try a less capable detector not known for depth , add the halo and the right set of soil variables with a target at 8 to 10 inches maybe 12 , ......in that scenerio , the target is not so deep to be outside the realm of possibility with a properly formed halo.

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  #40  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:13 PM
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Only a Minelab FBS can see the halo affect of a coin.
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