Myers Depot Metal Detectors

solid brass shotgun shell

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bugman

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found these shells in the same area i found an eagle button i know the shotgun shell is later than civil war .does anyone know the time period these were used? any idea on the othe casing?
 

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I saw 3 of those at an estate sale today. they say #12 on them.

Not sure of the age
 
I believe these came out mid 1800s because the paper shells would get wet. They’re still used by a few hard core reloaders for black powder so while not common they’ve been around all the while. Without markings it's hard to tell.
 
there are companys still manufacturing all brass shells, they are not nessasarily military, you can still buy them, loaded with modern smokeless powder. Alot of these were used very early on, a hunter might only own 4 of these shells and would handload them in the feild(the old blackpower type) they would make their shot, reload, then stop and reload the shells from supplies carried with them. these real early shells were not just tossed away and would be a rare find, I think yours are probably early to mid 1900's, but without more ID marking they could be from a vast time range. I just bought some .410 all brass shells at the gun show the other day, they were made in russia, new manufacture, not old stuff. the #10 most likely stands for 10 gauge a popular chambering.I would go so far to say it is probably from the earlier 1900's as it is a 2 1/2 inch shell which was common then and not the more recent 2 3/4 inch shell that is still used today.

the smaller shell looks like it could be a early .44 long colt or similar, non-reloadable as there is no primer, really can't tell from the pic. don't see much of a rim though could be an old battery casing?
 
The one on the left has me stumped a bit. It doesn't look like a "regular" shotshell. It might be the camera angle though. The one on the right is a nice find!

As for the age, without knowing the company, it is impossible to tell, but it is old. I know that technically, you can still buy all brass shells today, but yours is old. After literally pouring over hundreds and hundreds of dug shotshell heads and all brass shells one gets a feel for age by looking at them.

All brass shotshells started being manufactured in the USA in the mid 1870's. Their popularity waned when the paper shells became more popular. Paper shells started being manufactured in the 1860's, believe it or not. By 1900 loaded paper shells were starting to lead the way as the shells to be had.

If No 10 is all that is on it, my guess is that it has a good chance of being a very early UMC 10ga. There are a lot of UMC all brass shells that only have the gauge on them. I also feel that 1870's-1890's is a very fair date range for your find.

Nice going!
Doug

If you could post (or PM) a few more pics of the other shell, I might be able to help. I also need the diameter and length, if possible.
 
Brass cartridge

Shotgun cartridges were invented in the 1860s. Most early shotgun cartridges had a brass case. Early in the war Confederates would use civilian arms including shotguns.
 
I stll had several as late as the 70's. I filled one with lead and placed it into the butt stock of a muzzle heavy High Standard shotgun. Although heavier, it balanced out and felt lighter. It was still there when I sold it (Wish I still had it). I doubt if the one who has it now even knows that it's there.
 
decatur digger said:
Shotgun cartridges were invented in the 1860s. Most early shotgun cartridges had a brass case. Early in the war Confederates would use civilian arms including shotguns.
Click to expand...

I am in no way an expert on anything, but I thought the majority of the shotguns used in the Civil War were either muzzleloaders or pinfires. I know that CD Leet made some very early paper shells (1860's) and one source states UMC made all brass shells as early as 1868. I cannot find a date when the Eley Brothers, out of the UK started manufacturing shotshells. I do know that a lot of Eley Brother's pinfire shotshells are found in Confederate areas

RaylandRat said:
Would the type of primer used be a way to date it?
Click to expand...

Primers can help in dating to a degree, especially in more modern ones (1910's-1950's). The one problem with using primer data in dating an all brass shell especially, is they were reloaded, sometimes for years. Any information off of a primer would only help to determine the last time the shell was reloaded before it was lost.
 
turtlefoot said:
I cannot find a date when the Eley Brothers, out of the UK started manufacturing shotshells.
Click to expand...

Eley started making them in 1882.

"and thin-brass totally waterproof shotshell cartridges, in 1882."

http://www.eley.co.uk/about-eley.aspx

"Winchester first sold brass shotshells in 1877. Loaded brass shotshells were not sold until 1934, and then only as special orders."

"Before the 1870s, nearly all breechloading shotguns were produced by European gunsmiths and priced beyond the reach of the average American sportsman. Parker Brothers began producing shotguns in the U.S. in 1867 to make use of overstocked rifle parts left in warehouses when the Civil War ended."

"UMC was probably the first U.S. company to produce and market all-brass shotshells in about 1868."

http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/nebland/articles/history/shotshells.asp
 
RaylandRat said:
I see your point about reloading, but when were the reloadable cartridge/primer invented?
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I know, for the most part, the all brass shells started out being sold as empties, for hunters to load as they wanted.

The two following pics are from the 1895 Montgomery Wards catalogue. They show some of the "empties" in the first and a selection of primers and caps in the second.

picture.php

picture.php


Below is an ad from 1883 showing the items that US Cartridge Co. sold. It lists primers for all sorts of cartridges. This seems to indicate that the re-loadable cartridge has been around for a long time.

picture.php


Doug
 
Thats some great information Kenosha! Thanks for posting it. I didn't have the Eley Brothers link...now I do. :yes:

Nice research.

Doug
 
turtlefoot said:
That's a good question. I know, for the most part, the all brass shells started out being sold as empties, for hunters to load as they wanted.

The two following pics are from the 1895 Montgomery Wards catalogue. They show some of the "empties" in the first and a selection of primers and caps in the second.

Below is an ad from 1883 showing the items that US Cartridge Co. sold. It lists primers for all sorts of cartridges. This seems to indicate that the re-loadable cartridge has been around for a long time.

Doug
Click to expand...

The oldest catalogue I have is the Sears 1897, so it's great to see ads from something older. Thanks!

To add to your info above, I've had this bookmarked ~

"On August 9, 1867, the Union Metallic Cartridge Company was incorporated. It was particularly noted for its development of metallic cartridges. It and its successor company subsequently developed the first paper shotshells successfully manufactured in the United States, the first primer adapted to smokeless powder..."

http://www.remington.com/Pages/Our-Company/Company-History.aspx
 
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