Big Boys Hobbies

Coil decision

K

Knottyoak

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
173
Location
SE Missouri
I am going to buy a coil for my f-44 for a relic site full of square nails, and an empty town lot that is real trashy. It will be either a 4” round concentric, or an 11” DD elliptic. Which, in your opinion, would be best?:?:
 
I don't think there is a 4" round concentric for the F44. I used to own an F2 and there is a 4" coil for the F2/F4, however I don't think it is compatible with the F44. I believe the F44 is compatible with the Teknetics Greek series coils so the small compatible Fisher coil is the 5" DD.

I am using the 5"DD on my F75 and I really like it.

https://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2228807
 
http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/detector-searchcoils.htm

JimR_TN said:
I don't think there is a 4" round concentric for the F44. I used to own an F2 and there is a 4" coil for the F2/F4, however I don't think it is compatible with the F44. I believe the F44 is compatible with the Teknetics Greek series coils so the small compatible Fisher coil is the 5" DD.

I am using the 5"DD on my F75 and I really like it.

https://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2228807
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, Jim. The 5' DD sounds interesting. The Fisher Labs website shows a 4"concentric coil (4coil-FS) that works with f44, f22, and f11, but I haven't seen any for sale on MD store websites.
 
Knottyoak said:
http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/detector-searchcoils.htm



Thanks for the input, Jim. The 5' DD sounds interesting. The Fisher Labs website shows a 4"concentric coil (4coil-FS) that works with f44, f22, and f11, but I haven't seen any for sale on MD store websites.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. I liked the 4” concentric on my F2 when I had it so that may be way to go. Small coils look odd at first but they work great.
 
JimR_TN said:
Very interesting. I liked the 4” concentric on my F2 when I had it so that may be way to go. Small coils look odd at first but they work great.
Click to expand...

I think the 4" is what I'll go with, if I can find one for sale. The consensus seems to be that concentric is the best for my machine. Thanks again.
 
Knottyoak said:
I am going to buy a coil for my f-44 for a relic site full of square nails, and an empty town lot that is real trashy.
Click to expand...
First, if you don't mind, a few questions:

1.. Is the Fisher F-44 your only detector?

2.. If you have one or more other units, what are they?

3.. How long have you been detecting?

4.. What types of hunting do you usually do? Urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting or remote / rough terrain Relic Hunting where you encounter more iron?

5.. A "relic site full of square nails" and an empty town lot that is "real trashy"? Can you give us a description of how you would describe those two environments? How many iron nails might be in a typical 1 square foot or 1 square yard? And other obvious debris at the old site and what type? In the town lot, what type of trash? How dense or scattered, and is it ferrous or non-ferrous junk you'll be dealing with?


Knottyoak said:
It will be either a 4” round concentric, or an 11” DD elliptic. Which, in your opinion, would be best?:?:
Click to expand...
I've only been enjoying this great sport since March of '65, and been involved mainly in Coin & Jewelry Hunting since the first, and added Relic Hunting in n'69. Then while I still do both, I have concentrated on Relic Hunting ghost towns, pioneer and military encampments, homesteads, stage stops, RR depots and sidings, old picnic groves and carnival sites, dance hall and other recreation sites, picnic groves, logging camps and towns, mining camps and towns, etc., etc.

Additionally, most of the places I search are located in more iron mineralized locations in Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah and a few sites in Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona through the years. On a good day, a few locations I journey to have some good areas that have a limited amount of trash.

Most of the time, they are littered to terribly littered, with the majority of the trash being iron nails and similar wire-iron type junk like cut wire. Then there's all the other discarded ferrous debris such as iron washers and other ferrous stuff, and we can't forget the worst offender out there ... all the rusty tin. From complete cans and can lids down to small shards of decayed rusty tin. A few scattered nails are actually a joy to hunt in compared with most places I prefer to visit.

For best success in dense trash, specially ferrous debris, it takes a combination of the following three things:

► A very good detector that allows you to use a slow-and-methodical sweep speed, and one that can provide quick-response AND fast-recovery when using Discrimination to handle the rejection of unwanted trash AND recover fast while handling the rejected debris. NOT just capable of a quick-response when sweeping across a series of non-ferrous accepted targets that are close, but to respond well and recover well when taking on accepted non-ferrous targets AND quickly handle the rejection of ferrous trash in close proximity. That means have the circuitry to handle tough challenges and the adjustability to set it properly.

► A good search coil selection that can handle the challenges of assorted trash at a challenging site that also works well with the detector circuitry. The trashier the location is, the smaller search coils are going to usually be the better pick and NOT a standard-to-larger size search coil. Bigger coils will confront too much good-target masking at a well-littered site.

► Patience and detecting skills are the 3rd most necessary need. You have to be patient to deal with a lot of trashy targets. Skills necessary include using a shorter-length side-to-side sweep so as not to go too fast which causes problems. Using a smaller coil and overlapping well. Listening for the masking trash (generally iron) to try and hear a nearby non-ferrous desired target in the mixed-target audio.


The Fisher F-44: This is a good detector. If it wasn't it wouldn't have attracted my interest, and if you look at my Signature below, you will see that I list 1 Fisher detector. That happens to be my F-44. (I own two, but only 1 Fisher model.)

I have it in my Regular-Use Detector Team to use for some 'casual' or 'average' day-to-day urban Coin Hunting. Yes, I have used it for Relic Hunting a few places, but those were old-use sites that had much more open territory to search and did not suffer from a lot of nearby target masking. Why not? Because the response and recovery time in dense trash, especially iron contaminated sites, the F-44 is not the better choice for such conditions.

I also have it to use as a 'loaner unit' for folks who would like to check out this hobby, and to offer-up for use by a property owner to help gain access to private property.

F-44 Search Coils: I actually own two F-44's and had a back-up to them that I am selling. (Kind of have too many detectors.) I am not a fan of the new 'tear drop' looking Concentric coil nor the popular 11" BiAxial (means Double-D) DD coil. I ordered my last with that 11" DD coil, but my first two I got with the round 7" Concentric coil. That is my primary-use coil on the F-44. My 'back-up' or 2nd F-44 uses the round 5" Double-D.

I DO have the thin and tiny 4" Concentric coil in my Accessory Coil Tote but seldom use it. I did mount it up yesterday when I was demonstrating a few things about search coil performance to a fellow who is shopping for ideas on what detector to purchase to get into this hobby as well as accessory search coils. I do have an extra Brand new 4" Concentric coil I'd sell if you can't easily find one.

Otherwise, my coil selections for every detector I own and use, are all smaller-than-stock coils. I hunt very littered sites, to include urban renovation, sidewalk tear-ups, old vacant lots, and especially out-of-the-way old Relic Hunting places. I have an F-44 that I bought brand new with the 11" BiAxial DD coil, and the other two F-44's I bought with the 7" Concentric coil.

My primary-use F-44 keeps the 7" Concentric mounted and it works well for most places I use it. When trash levels increase, and/or the brush and rubble get challenging, I grab my 2nd F-44 that keeps the 5" DD coil attached.

Suggestions:My first and simplest suggestion is to use the 5" DD coil for the places you described.. Since you have the F-44, and if no other detector, the 5" DD would be my suggested coil choice. I have used both of the smaller-size coils on the F-44 in an assortment of more target-heavy sites, and the clear winner for me has been the 5" DD.

My 2nd suggestion is this: You have a birthday in what, about 15 days? So my best suggestion would be to treat yourself to a new and different detector and coil that, by design, can provide better performance for a heavy iron-contaminated site.

I've used my F-44 at some relic-type sites and it's done OK but not great because it really isn't made for more challenging debris locations. When I used it, I was mainly working more of the 'fringe' areas that were more open with well-spaced targets. My F-44's are part of my Urban Coin Hunting Team.

I have other detectors in my outfit that are my dedicated, serious Relic Hunting Team. Some, such as my Nokta FORS CoRe and FORS Relic with their 'OOR" DD (4.7X5.2) and 5" DD coils, the Makro Racer 2 w/5" DD, or Tesoro Bandido II microMAX w/6" Concentric coil, fill my needs and better handle a dense iron contaminated site. That's not just because of search coil size or type, but the way the circuitry was designed and how well they recover from ignoring and handling typical ferrous junk.

Monte

PS: Nokta / Makro never made a Concentric coil for the FORS series and those smaller DD coils are well proven. And most Tesoro models just do NOT work very well with a Double-D coil when compared with a similar-size Concentric. I don't use what I 'think' or 'guess' might work, but instead I use what has proven its abilities to me in a lot of in-the-field uses, time and time again.
 
Monte said:
First, if you don't mind, a few questions:

1.. Is the Fisher F-44 your only detector?

2.. If you have one or more other units, what are they?

3.. How long have you been detecting?

4.. What types of hunting do you usually do? Urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting or remote / rough terrain Relic Hunting where you encounter more iron?

5.. A "relic site full of square nails" and an empty town lot that is "real trashy"? Can you give us a description of how you would describe those two environments? How many iron nails might be in a typical 1 square foot or 1 square yard? And other obvious debris at the old site and what type? In the town lot, what type of trash? How dense or scattered, and is it ferrous or non-ferrous junk you'll be dealing with?


I've only been enjoying this great sport since March of '65, and been involved mainly in Coin & Jewelry Hunting since the first, and added Relic Hunting in n'69. Then while I still do both, I have concentrated on Relic Hunting ghost towns, pioneer and military encampments, homesteads, stage stops, RR depots and sidings, old picnic groves and carnival sites, dance hall and other recreation sites, picnic groves, logging camps and towns, mining camps and towns, etc., etc.

Additionally, most of the places I search are located in more iron mineralized locations in Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Utah and a few sites in Wyoming, Colorado and Arizona through the years. On a good day, a few locations I journey to have some good areas that have a limited amount of trash.

Most of the time, they are littered to terribly littered, with the majority of the trash being iron nails and similar wire-iron type junk like cut wire. Then there's all the other discarded ferrous debris such as iron washers and other ferrous stuff, and we can't forget the worst offender out there ... all the rusty tin. From complete cans and can lids down to small shards of decayed rusty tin. A few scattered nails are actually a joy to hunt in compared with most places I prefer to visit.

For best success in dense trash, specially ferrous debris, it takes a combination of the following three things:

► A very good detector that allows you to use a slow-and-methodical sweep speed, and one that can provide quick-response AND fast-recovery when using Discrimination to handle the rejection of unwanted trash AND recover fast while handling the rejected debris. NOT just capable of a quick-response when sweeping across a series of non-ferrous accepted targets that are close, but to respond well and recover well when taking on accepted non-ferrous targets AND quickly handle the rejection of ferrous trash in close proximity. That means have the circuitry to handle tough challenges and the adjustability to set it properly.

► A good search coil selection that can handle the challenges of assorted trash at a challenging site that also works well with the detector circuitry. The trashier the location is, the smaller search coils are going to usually be the better pick and NOT a standard-to-larger size search coil. Bigger coils will confront too much good-target masking at a well-littered site.

► Patience and detecting skills are the 3rd most necessary need. You have to be patient to deal with a lot of trashy targets. Skills necessary include using a shorter-length side-to-side sweep so as not to go too fast which causes problems. Using a smaller coil and overlapping well. Listening for the masking trash (generally iron) to try and hear a nearby non-ferrous desired target in the mixed-target audio.


The Fisher F-44: This is a good detector. If it wasn't it wouldn't have attracted my interest, and if you look at my Signature below, you will see that I list 1 Fisher detector. That happens to be my F-44. (I own two, but only 1 Fisher model.)

I have it in my Regular-Use Detector Team to use for some 'casual' or 'average' day-to-day urban Coin Hunting. Yes, I have used it for Relic Hunting a few places, but those were old-use sites that had much more open territory to search and did not suffer from a lot of nearby target masking. Why not? Because the response and recovery time in dense trash, especially iron contaminated sites, the F-44 is not the better choice for such conditions.

I also have it to use as a 'loaner unit' for folks who would like to check out this hobby, and to offer-up for use by a property owner to help gain access to private property.

F-44 Search Coils: I actually own two F-44's and had a back-up to them that I am selling. (Kind of have too many detectors.) I am not a fan of the new 'tear drop' looking Concentric coil nor the popular 11" BiAxial (means Double-D) DD coil. I ordered my last with that 11" DD coil, but my first two I got with the round 7" Concentric coil. That is my primary-use coil on the F-44. My 'back-up' or 2nd F-44 uses the round 5" Double-D.

I DO have the thin and tiny 4" Concentric coil in my Accessory Coil Tote but seldom use it. I did mount it up yesterday when I was demonstrating a few things about search coil performance to a fellow who is shopping for ideas on what detector to purchase to get into this hobby as well as accessory search coils. I do have an extra Brand new 4" Concentric coil I'd sell if you can't easily find one.

Otherwise, my coil selections for every detector I own and use, are all smaller-than-stock coils. I hunt very littered sites, to include urban renovation, sidewalk tear-ups, old vacant lots, and especially out-of-the-way old Relic Hunting places. I have an F-44 that I bought brand new with the 11" BiAxial DD coil, and the other two F-44's I bought with the 7" Concentric coil.

My primary-use F-44 keeps the 7" Concentric mounted and it works well for most places I use it. When trash levels increase, and/or the brush and rubble get challenging, I grab my 2nd F-44 that keeps the 5" DD coil attached.

Suggestions:My first and simplest suggestion is to use the 5" DD coil for the places you described.. Since you have the F-44, and if no other detector, the 5" DD would be my suggested coil choice. I have used both of the smaller-size coils on the F-44 in an assortment of more target-heavy sites, and the clear winner for me has been the 5" DD.

My 2nd suggestion is this: You have a birthday in what, about 15 days? So my best suggestion would be to treat yourself to a new and different detector and coil that, by design, can provide better performance for a heavy iron-contaminated site.

I've used my F-44 at some relic-type sites and it's done OK but not great because it really isn't made for more challenging debris locations. When I used it, I was mainly working more of the 'fringe' areas that were more open with well-spaced targets. My F-44's are part of my Urban Coin Hunting Team.

I have other detectors in my outfit that are my dedicated, serious Relic Hunting Team. Some, such as my Nokta FORS CoRe and FORS Relic with their 'OOR" DD (4.7X5.2) and 5" DD coils, the Makro Racer 2 w/5" DD, or Tesoro Bandido II microMAX w/6" Concentric coil, fill my needs and better handle a dense iron contaminated site. That's not just because of search coil size or type, but the way the circuitry was designed and how well they recover from ignoring and handling typical ferrous junk.

Monte

PS: Nokta / Makro never made a Concentric coil for the FORS series and those smaller DD coils are well proven. And most Tesoro models just do NOT work very well with a Double-D coil when compared with a similar-size Concentric. I don't use what I 'think' or 'guess' might work, but instead I use what has proven its abilities to me in a lot of in-the-field uses, time and time again.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, Monte.
In answer to your questions;
1) The F-44 is my only detector.
3) I've been detecting for a year, but only have time on the weekends, and not always then.
4) I enjoy relic hunting best, but do urban hunting when I don't have time or don't feel well enough to go to the woods.
5) At the relic site, in the forested areas that have never been plowed, there are building sites with as many as 6 or 8 nails per sq. ft., maybe more. I find relics in the vicinity of those places, along with those pesky rusted can shards and bits of wire, but I'd like to "see" under those nail carpets.
The town site is several adjoining lots that have had the buildings demolished, and the trash is a mixed bag of ferrous and non-ferrous house debris, along with can slaw. The building sites are worst, parts of it aren't too bad.

I'd like to get a new detector for my birthday, but I'm going to have to settle for a small coil for now.

Which 5"DD do you use on your F-44?
 
Knottyoak: said:

Thanks for the input, Monte.
In answer to your questions;
1) The F-44 is my only detector.
3) I've been detecting for a year, but only have time on the weekends, and not always then.
4) I enjoy relic hunting best, but do urban hunting when I don't have time or don't feel well enough to go to the woods.
5) At the relic site, in the forested areas that have never been plowed, there are building sites with as many as 6 or 8 nails per sq. ft., maybe more. I find relics in the vicinity of those places, along with those pesky rusted can shards and bits of wire, but I'd like to "see" under those nail carpets.
The town site is several adjoining lots that have had the buildings demolished, and the trash is a mixed bag of ferrous and non-ferrous house debris, along with can slaw. The building sites are worst, parts of it aren't too bad.

I'd like to get a new detector for my birthday, but I'm going to have to settle for a small coil for now.

Which 5"DD do you use on your F-44?
Click to expand...
I actually have two 5" DD coils. I ordered one with the last F44 I purchased, and I have also been using the 5" DD that I have had since 2010 and used on my Teknetics Omega's, G2's, Euro-Tek Pro and Fisher 19's etc. Same coil except the newer version has the 'improved' style rod-mount 'ears' on the coil top.

Monte
 
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