What detector to buy

george1971

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Hello all, I would like your suggestion about what metal detector to buy. I want an all-purpose metal detector for mineralized soil and beach. I am looking for coins and jewelry (gold and silver) mostly and sometimes relics. I want very good separation, very fast recovery speed and adjustable threshold if possible. Also, I have low budget, until 500 euros. I was thinking about Vanquish 540 (Multiple), B. H. Time Ranger Pro (19Khz), Simplex (12Khz) and Teknetics Patriot (13Khz). Would you choose one of these or something else and why. Thanks in advance.
 
Based on what you say you want, you want the Equinox 600. It might just barely be in your budget, but not sure based on your currency.

Assuming you can't afford the Equinox 600, the Simplex is probably your next best option of the models you listed.

The Vanquish 540 is definitely NOT an option for you given your need for very fast recovery speed and very fast target separation. It also has no ground balance (so bad for highly mineralized ground) and no adjustable threshold.
 
george1971: said:
Hello all, ...
Hello 'george1971' and Welcome to the Forum.


george1971: said:
I would like your suggestion about what metal detector to buy. I want an all-purpose metal detector for mineralized soil and beach. I am looking for coins and jewelry (gold and silver) mostly and sometimes relics.
An "All-Purpose" aka "General Purpose" detector should have a good broad-range of Discrimination capability, especially being able to adjust down on the lower-end. There are some very good "All-Purpose" detectors that work quite well but do not have a true, threshold-based All Metal mode. For some types of "All-Purpose" hunting, many Avid Detectorists like to have at least one model on-hand tht DOES have a true All Metal mode. Especially a model that features automated and/or manual Ground Balance capability .... in both modes, and not all detectors have direct user-GB control for the motion-based Discriminate mode.

Typical Coin & Jewelry Hunting can usually be accomplished with most average detectors, but if you get into some serious Relic Hunting environments, you need to know it will often include a lot of Iron Nails and other closely-positioned ferrous debris. For that you want to have a very good detector that can handle the rejected Iron and be able to recover-and-respond quickly to help unmask good non-ferrous targets in a dense Iron contaminated environment. Not all detectors can do that well, and it will also be important to have a smaller-size search coil to better handle high-trash conditions.


george1971: said:
I want very good separation, very fast recovery speed and adjustable threshold if possible.
"Separation" and "Fast Recovery Speed" kind of go hand-in-hand and the second is needed to achieve the first. However, thre is a catch in understanding 'recovery-Speed' because it makes a difference if you are hunting i amongst a lot of non-ferrous targets compred with a mix or ferrous and non-ferrous targets. Let me share an example:

Here in the USA most of our coinage is made of non-ferrous metal. You can randomly select five or six different US coins and lay them on the ground in a row where they are very close to each other. Then sweep a search coil along the 'row-of-coins' and listen for individual audio responses. That would indicate a hit=and-recovery rate or allowable 'speed' allowed for coil-sweep.

For example, one of my 'Test Scenario Samples' uses two 1-Foot or 12-Inch wooden paint sticks. The '0' line is half-way over a US 5¢ coin-size Trade Token. There is another token sandwiched between the two paint sticks at the 2", 4", 6", 8" 10" and then the 12" line also overlaps the center of the 7th Trade Token. They are all made out of Copper, Brass, or a mix with a lower reading close to the US 5¢ coin conductivity.

All 7 non-ferrous target can easily be swept at a reasonably good sweep speed with most Tesoro models and produce 7 very clean, individual target 'hits' using both my Tesoro's with a 7" coil. I can also get 7 clean hits with my Nokt CoRe and Relic w/5" DD coil, Simplex + w/5X9½ DD coil, Garrett Apex w/5X8 DD coil, and also when using a Teknetics T2+ w/5" DD coiland a few oher detector / coil combinations.

However, while those detectors and coils have a very good 'Response-and-Recovery' rate on those close non-ferrous targets, many of them do terrible or very poor when trying to deal with Iron Nails and a single Non-Ferrous Coin. For that 'Test Scenario' I use my Nail Board Performance Test to see how a detector can handle the negative influence of the Iron Nails from 8 different directions and still be able to respond to a US 1¢ coin in the centered #1 position.

My Tesoro's, Core and Relic models will produce 8-out-of-8 audible 'hits' and my Apex or Simplex + respond with 7-out-of-8 good audible hits. Any detector & coil that provide me with 7 or 8 good hits out of 8 possible are good picks for me to Relic Hunt those very challenging old sites. There are many detector than handle the 7-Token strip well, but fail to do well in a more challenging unmasking type challenge. I only use detectors for serious Relic Hunting that produce at least 7 or 8 hits on my Nail Board. Anything less is for someone else to own and use in my opinion.


george1971: said:
Also, I have low budget, until 500 euros. I was thinking about Vanquish 540 (Multiple), B. H. Time Ranger Pro (19Khz), Simplex (12Khz) and Teknetics Patriot (13Khz). Would you choose one of these or something else and why. Thanks in advance.
Today, your 500 Euros would be about $580 in US money, and for that you can shop for a very clan-condition, gently-used detector or buy a brand new detector in that price range.

Of the modls you listed I oul only consider two of them. The Minelab vanquish 540 Pro pack, or a Nokta / Makro Simplex + and get the 5X9½ DD accessory coil for it. Personally, since you asked, I would not consider the other models.

For a different suggestion I will encourage you to look at the Garrett Apex. I have, in my personal detector group, a Tesoro Silver Sabre µMAX (pronounced microMAX) w/6' Concentric coil and a Bandido II µMAX, also w/6" coil. I have a Nokta FORS CoRe w/small 'OOR' DD and a FORS Relic w/5" DD and another Relic w/5X9½ DD. Then I have 3 of the Garrett Apex models because they work quite well and are very versatile. I keep a 5X8 DD 'Ripper' coil on my main-use unit, a 'Raider' 8½X11 DD on my 2nd Apex for open areas, and currently have a 5" NEL DD on my 3rd Apex. for trashier and brushier sites.

All of these work great and can be purchased used in fine condition or brand new and be in your price range.

I do not know how the dealer market is where you live, but here in the USA I purchased all three of my Apex devices (and a 4th I bought to use as a 'loaner-unit' for family and friends) for $385 to $425 .... and those included the Garrett MS-3 wireless Z-Lynk headphones as well.

Again, Welcome to the Forum and Welcome to this great outdoor sport. Best of success to you.

Monte
 
Monte: If the OP need very fast recovery speeds and separation why are you recommending the Vanquish? It's not slow, but if someone needs very fast recovery speeds, they need an Equinox, Deus or Fisher F75+.

Then tack on the fact that the OP will be hunting in potentially wet environments and (presumably) highly mineralized ground, it sounds like the Vanquish is a poor choice.

Or is your recommendation based, at least in part, by the perception that the OP is asking for too much given his budget?
 
mh9162013: said:
Monte: If the OP need very fast recovery speeds and separation why are you recommending the Vanquish? It's not slow, but if someone needs very fast recovery speeds, they need an Equinox, Deus or Fisher F75+.

Then tack on the fact that the OP will be hunting in potentially wet environments and (presumably) highly mineralized ground, it sounds like the Vanquish is a poor choice.

Or is your recommendation based, at least in part, by the perception that the OP is asking for too much given his budget?
Well, of the models he listed I narrowed a suggestion down to the V-540 Pro Pack and Simplex + w/extra coil. Those will handle a lot of his needs, but ....

I aolso pointed out that some detectors do have fast response-and-recovery time on good, non-ferrous targets, but fail miserably when they take on the challenges of Iron debris, such as Nails and other things. I had three V-50's and they worked 'OK' for a lot of average Coin & Jewelry Hunting, but they had some issues as well. And, as pointe out, they lack adjustable Ground Balance.

But the OP, like many just getting into this great sport, might not always understand 'Ground Balance' or many other things they read. It was just a suggestion based on the list the OP provided. My post, on the other hand, should point out that there are a lot of other choices, and maybe some comparison testing might be handy. Too bad we do not have a lot of local dealers or clubs or active people to lend local folks a hand.

Monte
 
Thanks all of you for your answers and especially Monte. I was a minelab Safari owner and I sell it because it had some technical problems with the detector. Safari was very good detector for silver, copper and brass but very bad at gold. Also, it was very good to identify euro coins vdi numbers and had characteristic sounds. Now, a friend of mine owns a Minelab Vanquish 540 and I have test it several times. What I like, is the sounds (reminds me a little bit of Safari) the better identification that has for gold in contrast with Safari and the faster recovery speed. What I do not like is the limited vdi scale, it has not very good separation when hunting in areas with a lot of trash and iron, no threshold button, no tone brake and also, I faced a problem when I used it. I am using the coin mode with discrimination from -1 to 0 and the jewelry mode. Iron bias low and sensitivity one or two bars down. When I am suspecting that I hit a coin and I want to know if it is trash or coin by using the all-metal mode, to hear if there is iron tone or it is clear nonferrous tone, the iron tone is very strong and confused me for the target. As a result, I missed the coin. I have to say that a strong iron tone is heard most of the times when using the all-metal mode. What is the mistake?
About the detectors that I mentioned, I thought that T.R. Pro because of the 19Khz would have better separation than the other detectors in the list. Right or wrong?
About Simplex I do not like the sounds and the single frequency, but it is cheap, waterproof and solid. Also, it has and threshold adjustment only in all metal mode if I am right.
I have seen a lot of comparison tests between Vanquish and Simplex I end up that the result depends on the company which finance the tester person.
Monte, do you believe that multifrequency is better than a medium frequency (12-14Khz) or it is a marketing trick for sales?
I insist in separation, correct and different vdi numbers for different targets. After that what is the final suggestion justified?
 
george1971: said:
Thanks all of you for your answers and especially Monte. I was a minelab Safari owner and I sell it because it had some technical problems with the detector. Safari was very good detector for silver, copper and brass but very bad at gold. Also, it was very good to identify euro coins vdi numbers and had characteristic sounds.
I owned nd used over six Explorer II's and an Explorer SE Pro, and I borrowed a Safari from a Minelab Dealer friend. Personally, I didn't care for the Safari, and I only used the Minelab FBS models for common city Coin Hunting. They were terrible to try and go after gold jewelry and other lower-conductive targets. Also, I have mainly Relic Hunted in very heavy Iron debris since mid-1985 and always used better detectors for those conditions.


george1971: said:
Now, a friend of mine owns a Minelab Vanquish 540 and I have test it several times. What I like, is the sounds (reminds me a little bit of Safari) the better identification that has for gold in contrast with Safari and the faster recovery speed.
I do like the V-540's audio tones and better TID read-out for most of the lower-conductive coins at varying depths. As for 'Recovery Speed', it might be faster than the Safari, yes, but by comparison it is nowhere as fast as a lot o the detectors on the market today.


george1971: said:
What I do not like is the limited vdi scale, it has not very good separation when hunting in areas with a lot of trash and iron, no threshold button, no tone brake and also, I faced a problem when I used it. I am using the coin mode with discrimination from -1 to 0 and the jewelry mode. Iron bias low and sensitivity one or two bars down. When I am suspecting that I hit a coin and I want to know if it is trash or coin by using the all-metal mode, to hear if there is iron tone or it is clear nonferrous tone, the iron tone is very strong and confused me for the target. As a result, I missed the coin. I have to say that a strong iron tone is heard most of the times when using the all-metal mode. What is the mistake?
What I don't care for is the limited VDI numeric range of the Vanquish and Equinox models.

The 'Separation' or 'Recovery Speed' is not as fast as the detectors I keep in my personal outfit because I want that performance capability.

Also, the V-540 lacks an operator-controlled Ground Balance and that creates a problem. Yes, it was a mistake because the Vanquish series rely on a controlled, circuitry designed preset GB, and it is different between the Relic mode and the other two, Coin & Jewelry. When you activate the All Metal function button, the detector, in most mineralized ground, is either going to behave with a too-positive GB or a too-negative GB and that will result in falsing as you describe. A lot of noisy behavior.

Without GB control the AM button is useless and I simply selected the mode I preferred for the types of sites I planned to hunt, then Saved that program in the 'Custom' mode slot and Accepted ALL of the Disc. segments except the first two. That eliminated the unwanted noisy behavior.. Then I simply hunted inmy Custom mode, w/o noise, and could hear some of th unwanted Iron trash with a reduce Iron Volume


george1971: said:
About the detectors that I mentioned, I thought that T.R. Pro because of the 19Khz would have better separation than the other detectors in the list. Right or wrong?
Of the model you listed, the TB Pro, a 19 kHz copy of the Fisher F19 and Teknetics G2+, is a faster response & recovery model than the V-540 and many others, and so is the 12 kHz Simplex +. The problem I have with it, or at least one of the problems, is that it is a 2-Tone ONLY detector, if accepting some Iron trash.


george1971: said:
About Simplex I do not like the sounds and the single frequency, but it is cheap, waterproof and solid. Also, it has and threshold adjustment only in all metal mode if I am right.
I have seen a lot of comparison tests between Vanquish and Simplex I end up that the result depends on the company which finance the tester person.
Personally, I find the audio sounds to be 'OKAY' but not as good as what I get out of my Nokta, Tesoro and Garrett units. It is a fat recovering detector, however, so t can work well in that regard.


george1971: said:
Monte, do you believe that multifrequency is better than a medium frequency (12-14Khz) or it is a marketing trick for sales?
Hummmm, good question. I do NOT believe a Multi-Frequency detector, itself, is a 'marketing trick', but I do know that Minelab has done a lot in the pats with their BBS and FBS series models to try and 'trick' or 'fool' people into thinking they worked at a big number of frequencies all at the same time. They didn't and they don't.

Operating frequency is only part of the factors involved in engineering a functional detector. I have used SMF's from Fisher, Minelab, White's and now Garrett starting back in the '90s with a Sovereign. Some of them have and do work well for a lot of applications, but I also like to select a desired Single-Frequency with my Apex units or with the Equinox 800 I had, all based upon the particular site I am hunting.

Otherwise, other than a few exceptions in Single-Frequency, such as my two Nokta FORS Relic devices at 19 kHz, the vast majority of all my detecting, be it for coins and jewelry or at a beach or Relic Hunting, ever since 1977, has been with a detector operating in the 10 kHz to 15 kHz range.


george1971: said:
I insist in separation, correct and different vdi numbers for different targets. After that what is the final suggestion justified?
Well, I also like to have Quick-Response and Fast-Recovery to help 'Separate' good targets in a trashy environment. And I do use, or at least reference, a VDI read-out most of the time. However, since I am hunting in a trashier environment I know that the good-target masking also means a lot of the VDI responses are not going to be as accurate. Instead, they are more of a 'blended' reading between the two or three close-contact objects. That means I am going to recover more targets an more questionable r 'iffy' targets, but it also means I am going to end up with a lot of good targets that would have been (and have been) masked for quite some time.

I would take the Simplex + from those models you listed, but if shopping for a brand new detector that provides ample performance for 'General-Purpose' hunting, I still encourage you to check out a Garrett Apex. They work and it is within your budget.

Monte
 
Vanquish is a pretty good machine,but so is the simplex. If a guy could own both there’s really no need for anything else imo, the rest is just personal preference in control. I hunt a lot of fields,and I use a Deus but the truth is I know the simplex will find anything my Deus will in that scenario.
Same with the nox and the vanquish. I’m pretty confident the vanquish will find just about everything in my soil the nox will, might be a few the vanquish would miss but I doubt it would be many . Again I think the want or need for more control from the user is what really separated those two machines, not so much finds.
 
Vanquish is a pretty good machine,but so is the simplex. If a guy could own both there’s really no need for anything else imo, the rest is just personal preference in control. I hunt a lot of fields,and I use a Deus but the truth is I know the simplex will find anything my Deus will in that scenario.
Same with the nox and the vanquish. I’m pretty confident the vanquish will find just about everything in my soil the nox will, might be a few the vanquish would miss but I doubt it would be many . Again I think the want or need for more control from the user is what really separated those two machines, not so much finds.

You must hunt in some fairly mild soil, then.

In my soil, the Vanquish is sometimes borderline blind in my highly mineralized clay.
 
You must hunt in some fairly mild soil, then.

In my soil, the Vanquish is sometimes borderline blind in my highly mineralized clay.

I'm in western Pennsylvania, soils not too bad here. It's coal county and hot rocks,aka burned coal ashes people threw out everywhere is a problem tho for every machine except fbs. But the dirt is good, and honestly I can run a preset ground balance machine and still get deep. So yes, there's not much difference between the nox and the vanquish here
 
You must hunt in some fairly mild soil, then.

In my soil, the Vanquish is sometimes borderline blind in my highly mineralized clay.

in my experience, the vanquish in "LIGHT TO MODERATE MINERALIZED SOIL"
is a "crackerjack" coin sniper.i have both the 12"and 8" coils.both are "some" deep, and separate well in my lightly mineralized soil!

(h.h.!)
j.t.
 
woodbutcher: said:
I'm in western Pennsylvania, soils not too bad here. --- But the dirt is good, and honestly I can run a preset ground balance machine and still get deep.
That kind of depends on how the preset Ground Balance detector is actually balanced. Some have a too positive or too negative preset GB and that can create issues.

I've owned three V-540's and hunted in Oregon, Idaho and Nevada in a wide variety of soils to include some very tough iron mineralized ground. The Vanquish can perform reasonably well, but does have a couple of design issues:

1.. Lacking adjustable GB, the 'Horseshoe' button to activate "All Metal" is not very functional. That isn't a conventional, Threshold-based All Metal mode, but simply a full-range Disc. Mode acceptance. As such, in the Coin and Jewelry mode the GB behavior is opposite that of the Relic mode. One is too positive a reaction and the other is too negative.

That results in a lot of annoying false signals when trying to hunt using that button function. The best way to counter that is to save any default mode you wish to use in the 'Custom' slot, then accept all Disc.segments except the first two so you do not hear the mis-behavior from an errant GB.

2.. I found the V-540 w/5X8 DD coil to not handle dense Iron Nails as well as many other detectors, and in some bad ground it didn't do well on deeper targets.

3.. When Coin Hunting high-loss areas, such as near some picnic boweries or heavy-use tot-lot playgrounds, the Vanquish models struggled to produce clean audio and visual responses when I encountered some 'coin-clusters' such as pocket spills with 3 or more coins together and some touching or on top of others.

When I encountered these conditions, I left them to grab 1 to 4 other detectors and coils to double-check the performance results. None of the other detectors & coils used had the same problems.

Monte
 
mh9162013: said:
You must hunt in some fairly mild soil, then.

In my soil, the Vanquish is sometimes borderline blind in my highly mineralized clay.
Yep, I experienced the same issues, yet in those challenging sites, other detectors I used handled things just fine, and that includes the very affordable Simplex +.

Monte
 
I have the Minelab Vanquish 540 pro pack and my brother has the Simplex. I am finding more deep silvers then he is with his Simplex. I have had zero issues not having GB and I'm consistently running it wide open or one notch down, maybe because it's a multi-frequeintcy it handles mineralized soil well, I dont know but I never had an issue. I love the Vanquish tones and it gives good readings at all depths which in my opinion is a good thing.
From the many videos I seen on the Apex, it really struggled in high iron areas and all the modes are only notches plus the Vanquish tones are much more pleasing to the ears.
 
when I purchased my 540 I already was aware that my ground was mild, lack of ability to ground balance was a moot issue. my results with it echos yours.i am finding deep silver with excellent id at "all depths" with both the 12 " and 8" coils. the tones are very descriptive and pleasing.i also run "gain" at 1 notch below highest setting, and seldom experience (e.m.i.) when I do occasionally experience interference I will "noise cancel" again, and it goes away.i have been hunting for over 35 years, and I gotta tell ya, the vanquish, in my view is a wonderful, enjoyable ,reasonably priced coin sniper.

(h.h.!)
j.t.
 
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