Does this constitute "No Metal Detecting"?

Geardaddy

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So I am looking to branch out a little to some parks in neighboring towns and was looking at a towns Ordinances. Here is what I found:

14.03 : Prohibited Conduct Generally.

It shall be unlawful for any person in a public park or recreation area to:

1.000

Mark, deface, disfigure, injure, tamper with or displace or remove any buildings, bridges, tables, benches, fireplaces, railings, pavings or paving materials, water lines or other public utilities or parts or appurtenances thereof, signs, notices or placards, whether temporary or permanent, monuments, stakes, posts, or other boundary markers, or other structures or equipment, facilities or park property or appurtenances whatsoever, either real or personal.
2.000

Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.
3.000


Would you say that this would include metal detecting? On first take, I thought this, but then I thought that maybe because I'm not removing any soil or the aforementioned items that maybe it would still be okay.

I don't have a lot of experience with these ordinances as of yet, so I thought I'd get some opinions from more experienced researchers.

Thanks!
 
Very good question. Sorry I can not answer. I can only suggest you to talk to someone at city hall or parks dept. Good Luck to you.
 
My guess is that if you ask, the answer will be that you can metal detect but you can't dig. Might be able to use a screw driver to "pop" the coins.
 
Just re-read the ordinance. I think the "no excavation by tool" part would probably mean that metal detecting probably isn't allowed. :(
 
theres an ordinance about no defacing/digging etc... at the city park where i use to live, i talked to Public Works Director and he said as long as i cover my holes and dont cause a disturbance i can MD. If you're going to talk to city hall, dont talk to some random clerk from what i hear they like to make up their own laws about metal detecting, best to talk to someone who is actually in charge. Such as the public works direct or the city manager.
 
I search a local park and usually stick to near surface finds. I was braced by the public works director once, showed my technique of unearthing finds just under the surface by hand. Showed my days take of pennies and scrap metal with no visible trail and got a pass to continue.
 
i would do it unless its on a historical park... untill your told to leave which probably wont happen... unless its federal then no digging... but useing a knife or something shouldnt be a problem to pull stuff out.
 
Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.

It sucks....but there's your keywords right there. They can easily say that means metal detecting and they'd be right...BUT go by in person or talk to some of the employees in the park.

Once they see we're not psychos they'll probably ease off and let you hunt. Good luck!
 
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Hey gear-daddy and everyone:

Every single one of those codes that gear-daddy cited ALL imply the end result. Right? In other words: If you leave no trace of your presence, then *technically*, you have not alterED, defaceED, or vandalizED anything, now have you? :shock: Sure someone might come up and take exception to your interpretation of the semantics of such phrases. Ok, then avoid such lookie-lous and go at lower traffic times. :roll:

That type verbage appears in ALL public laws, codes, rules, EVERYWHERE, at EVERY park, school, beach (every speck of public land) across the entire USA. I mean, think of it: do you know of any place that "allows" alterations, defacement, and vandalism? OR COURSE NOT. All such texts pre-date metal detecting. So that no one think he can shop down tree limbs for firewood. Or to dig up the roses in the park to sell at the flea market in flower boquets, etc... Or graffiti the park benches, etc.... Was it meant to stop your 10 yr. old daugher from digging a sand-castle on the beach? No. But I guarantee you that if you went to the entity that administers that beach, and said "Hi. Can I alter and deface the beach for my own enjoyment?" They would be obliged to tell you "no you can't" Or "can I harvest and take things from the beach for my own fun?", they would say no. However, as you can see, 10 yr. olds make sand castles, and take home seashells ALL THE TIME and no one cares less. Why? I guess they didn't ask enough questions, and morph those laws to themselves. (which indeed can be made to apply).

So too is it the same with texts like you cite. Can they be made to apply to our hobby? SURE! Just keep asking long enough and hard enough, and parade yourself in front of enough bored gardeners having a bad day, and eventually you will find a "no".

But oddly, you will find no lack of people posting finds made in public parks, schools, beaches, etc.... WHICH HAVE SUCH RULES. How then can they do it? Aren't they running afoul of those clauses? If... they ... gasp... "dig"? It's because no one cares. Just like sand castles and picking up seashells.

Naturally there's an endless curve of "types sites". Ie.: sandboxes vs highly manicured turf, etc.... And here is where a little common sense is in order. Ie.: just because semantics may lend themselves to referring to the "end result" , still doesn't mean you are wise to go parade yourself in front of persons who might disagree with that take. I mean, don't be in the middle of deep retrievals when nosy-parkers are watching you.

When it comes to nicely manicured turf, it's gotten to where I do most of my hunting at odd-ball off-times. Even night. So peaceful. So serene.
 
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As for those persons on this thread who answer the OP by stating that they, in their locale, got permission to dig (despite there, no doubt, being such laws forbidding "digging" and "altering", etc...), ask yourself this question:

Can a public official *really* give a person a green light to violate laws? I mean, could I go down to the local cops and see if they let me exceed the speed limit? Or get the ok from the IRS to cheat on my taxes? Of course not! So those people who "got the green light" to break the laws (assuming you believe these apply to md'ing, which is the point of the OP's question), then their "permission" merely backs up what I'm saying: THAT THEY APPLY TO THE END RESULT.
 
So I am looking to branch out a little to some parks in neighboring towns and was looking at a towns Ordinances. Here is what I found:

14.03 : Prohibited Conduct Generally.

It shall be unlawful for any person in a public park or recreation area to:

1.000

Mark, deface, disfigure, injure, tamper with or displace or remove any buildings, bridges, tables, benches, fireplaces, railings, pavings or paving materials, water lines or other public utilities or parts or appurtenances thereof, signs, notices or placards, whether temporary or permanent, monuments, stakes, posts, or other boundary markers, or other structures or equipment, facilities or park property or appurtenances whatsoever, either real or personal.
2.000

Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.
3.000


Would you say that this would include metal detecting?

I would say that pretty well says "NO METAL DETECTING" or maybe more appropriately it says "You can DETECT METAL, you just can't RECOVER OR REMOVE IT if it's beneath the ground".

But it sounds like you're thinkin' about it anyway, so Good Luck!


Do not Kill the hobby these are,
Good Rules to Follow When Detecting

- Never trespass. Always get permission to traverse private or restricted lands.
- Always respect private property and do no metal detecting without the owner's permission.
- Before searching public sites, always check laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern your hunt.
- Always leave gates as they are found whether open or closed.
- Never do anything that might contaminate wells, creeks or other water supplies.
- Never tamper with signs, maintenance facilities or equipment.
- Never damage or destroy property, buildings or what is left of ghost towns or deserted structures.
- Never spook, taunt, provoke or otherwise disturb wild or domestic animals.
- Never leave litter. Pack out any and all trash or debris you create or find.
- If necessary, clean up after a previous detectorist. Acting in spite of him or even just ignoring his trangressions will only hurt us all in the end.
- Always use the correct digging or probing equipment to make the least intrusion or marks.
- Never throw trash finds back in the hole.
- Leave as little sign of your passing as possible.
- Always fill in your holes, including plowed fields, sand pits, beaches and in water.
- Study, learn, appreciate and protect our heritage of natural resources, wildlife, and private property.
- Be thoughtful, considerate, courteous and respectful of others at all times.
- Protect the metal detecting hobby by being a good will ambassador at all times.
- Report the discovery of any items of possible significant historical value to a local historian or museum in accordance with the latest legislation of your area.
- Report any live ammunition or other potentially lethal or toxic objects you may find to authorities after carefully noting or marking the location.
- Report any criminal activities you see to proper authorities immediately. You are not a "snitch" or a "tattletale". You are a citizen with both rights, privileges AND duties. Respect them as they were hard-earned by many who came before you.

I did not make up these rules, just trying to save the hobby for newbie's to come.

ezdigger Stan
 
Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.
3.000

Well... So much for that new fancy TNT digger from ACME I was looking to purchase :( Guess I need to keep with the less invasive means of cutting plugs
 
I was very concerned about this when I first started detecting this past year. I sent out emails to four municipalities in my area asking if it was OK to metal detect in their city parks. I only heard back from one and they said no. Later I looked on their web site for the park rules and there was not anything vaguely stating that it was not allowed, so I detect anyway and have had no problems. I think Tom_in_CA has it right. These codes were not written with metal detecting in mind, but if you ask a bureaucrat “May I” then you give them something to think about like “ Do we want people doing this in our parks? I don't think so.” Just use common sense about where and when you detect and cover your tracks. The worst that could happen is you would be told it's not allowed.
 
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I was very concerned about this when I first started detecting this past year. I sent out emails to four municipalities in my area asking if it was OK to metal detect in their city parks. I only heard back from one and they said no. Later I looked on their web site for the park rules and there was not anything vaguely stating that it was not allowed, so I detect anyway and have had no problems. I think Tom_in_CA has it right. These codes were not written with metal detecting in mind, but if you ask a bureaucrat “May I” then you give them something to think about like “ Do we want people doing this in our parks? I don't think so.” Just use common sense about where and when you detect and cover your tracks. The worst that could happen is you would be told it's not allowed.


Mr Steve, thanx for your support of my stance. And as your "no one cared less" actual results showed, .. no one cared (presuming you weren't being a nusiance, and that there wasn't anything that actually said no md'ing).

Some people may think: "well... I just feel better by asking. Eg. safer, etc... And so, what harm does it do to ask? If they say no, I simply go somewhere else instead. So why should that be anyone else's problem except mine?"

Here's the problem: There's been cases where that very same person who told you "no", whom perhaps would never have given matter to the thought, nor given you a second glance... well guess what's going to happen when that person is driving past the park a week later, and sees another md'r out there? He'll remember the earlier inquiry, and think "aha! there's one of *them*." And start booting others. I've seen this psychology happen multiple times. Therefore it does affect more than just the person asking. It can have ripple effects, as seen by my "true story #2", for example.
 
Those rules don't prohibit metal detecting. They are there to prevent people from digging up the landscaping to take home. It's basically stating that you can't take home or kill any of the shrubs and trees and that you can't destroy or remove benches, playground equipment, etc.
 
We sometimes see signage like this, advising those recreating to basically...not fold, tear, spindle or mutilate the woods, more or less:lol:...if the mountainbikers can make new trails...some up over and even thru stone walls...remove the flat rocks to fill muddy areas, chop down trees to make ramps, dig grave size pits to build jumps...we can metal detect if we want.
 
We sometimes see signage like this, advising those recreating to basically...not fold, tear, spindle or mutilate the woods, more or less:lol:...if the mountainbikers can make new trails...some up over and even thru stone walls...remove the flat rocks to fill muddy areas, chop down trees to make ramps, dig grave size pits to build jumps...we can metal detect if we want.

captain silver: this has been a common lament that people can go "let their dogs poop without cleaning it up". Or "cleats hurt turf too". Or "kids dig sand-castles" and so forth. The obvious point being "why are we being singled out?"

The answer is simple: Those persons didn't go ask permission to do those things. If they had, then they too would get a "no". We md'rs, on the other hand, have felt that we need to ask "can I?". Because if all those other park and beach users had inquired ahead asking "can I leave my dogs poop there?" and "can I tear up the grass [with my cleats]", and "can I alter and deface the beach [with sand castles]?". Then they too would have gotten a "no". And then they too could start forums lamenting their lack of ability to walk their dog, run with cleats, and dig sand castles.
 
We sometimes see signage like this, advising those recreating to basically...not fold, tear, spindle or mutilate the woods, more or less:lol:...if the mountainbikers can make new trails...some up over and even thru stone walls...remove the flat rocks to fill muddy areas, chop down trees to make ramps, dig grave size pits to build jumps...we can metal detect if we want.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but here in CA, depending on what land exactly you're on, trail building is illegal with fines possible up to $10K. It is also generally frowned upon by the mountain biking community. People do it anyway and it is incredibly selfish and destructive.

You have presented a faulty analogy, at least as it applies in CA.
 
I guess for sure you can't use dynamite or a bulldozer, but probing with a screwdriver is so much less. If you check under city code & under park rules & it doesn't mention metal detecting, show up at park & check for no detecting signs. If you can remove coins without doing damage, you're probably OK to detect, or will just be asked to leave. I think the police are the only ones that could maybe fine detectorists, so you could call them & ask if you could be fined for detecting. If they say no fine, go detect.

I was at a park that said $50 fine for defacing, got scared & left. Thought about the Indian Head pennies we found, so finally sent letter a few years later. They said as long as it is a hobby & not a business, it is OK. Businesses may be prohibited in a park & some think we do this for a living.

People can be thrown out if not fined for noise ordinance, so headphones best in parks.

A school my dad & I found silver at, we came back to see new signs "non-school use of property prohibited" So I called school & spoke to liason officer if we could detect. He said OK, that they were just concerned about what some in the parking lot were doing after dark.

Was in an old small town, said something like $300 fine for defacing, so left. Then a couple years or so later, I read about a kid in the newspaper that lives near their large old park & it says metal detecting is his favorite hobby.

Was visiting a park for a group picnic & saw signs saying no defacing, etc. Asked park worker if I could use my metal detector there & he said I don't see why not!

Heard they don't allow detecting in St. Paul, so called desk-bound bureaucrat & it said no digging. I asked if my screwdriver was considered the same as a shvel. She said it also says no disturbing the soil. She suggested I call the police & I did. I asked if I could be fined for detecting city parks & was told maybe I could be if I left a big hole that could injure someone. So guess they were mostly worried about injury/lawsuit.

Ask someone besides a desk-bound bureaucrat if you think there is a strong reason to believe detecting is not allowed. Often the police will side with us when someone complains about digging in *their* park. But if they're too nutty & won't shut up, the police could ask the detectorist to leave so the complaint is resolved. HH, George (MN)
 
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