New From Panama City fl

Tom_in_CA said:

JCinPC, curious how you determined that it's off-limits there ? Is there a specific rule there that says, explicitly "no md'ing" ?

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I determined it was prohibited by reading it in the TAFB Instruction with my own two eyes. It specifically states “metal detecting on Tyndall AFB is prohibited”. There are exceptions that require installation commander approval.
The paragraph is directive in nature and it’s not open to interpretation.

Tom_in_CA said:

I've hunted scores of military bases, no problem . Oh ... sure, you need to steer clear of obvious historic sensitive monuments. And ... sure ... the post-9/11 era has buttoned down bases (but nothing to do with md'ing.

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Because you didn’t have a problem, does not mean you did it legally. It could have just as easily gone south on you and especially for Dirty Nails since he might have had more to lose, and it’s clearly written. Not doom and gloom, just facts. Dirty Nails understands the implications of blatantly disregarding a command directive. He didn’t do that. He just didn’t know, but that doesn’t always matter in military circles. Military folks understand this.

Tom_in_CA said:

And you can be on a base as long as you have legit reason to be there in the first place).

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A few legit reasons are open houses, official business or seasonal hunting permissions. Way more details but you’re not getting through the gates by telling the gate guard you want to metal detect.
Besides native burial grounds, Tyndall AFB was a training grounds for aerial gunners. Jeeps would pull targets around a field, while live fire was used to shoot the targets. There is also a very large EOD range. So besides historical purposes, perhaps safety, liability, and even wildlife preservation have a play. Just speculation though.

Tom_in_CA said:

But no, I'm not aware of any rule that touches/affects all military bases that somehow makes them off limits.

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Just because you’re not aware doesn’t mean it’s not regulated.
I would suggest at least do the research for the particular installation before arbitrarily metal detecting assuming no consequences are in store. To answer your (really not so) sneaking suspicion, lest they make a rule, in the end that’s all you have, suspicion and speculation. Your guess is as good as mine.
Your remark about “someone coming along” blah blah blah, is condescending. This “someone” is very familiar with military instructions and manuals. 43 years military and federal service combined. Regs (AFIs on AF installations) are the first thing I look at if something is in question. It’s ingrained. If you’re gonna metal detect (or attempt anything questionable) on a military installation do your research first (or don’t, it’s your call). I did. I shared what I know. Ain’t allowed. Hope this clarified it for you.

I wouldn't step foot on tyndall with a metal detector myself and i don't even kno if its allowed or not . They are really finicky. Jcinpc I sent you a msg on your profile. DityNails I dont hunt the beaches much and wen i first started i went to under the oaks and found some older clad but no silver. Possibly there but I wasn't lucky i mite need to revisit soon .

Dirty Nails said:

CoinHunter,
I'm curious are you a local resident or a military member? I ask only because I was stationed at Tyndall AFB from Nov 2017 until October 2018 when Hurricane Michael arrived. I can tell you that I had cleaned out the Parker Sports Complex and the Under The Oaks Park. I also did real well on base. Out in Mexico Beach the used the be a restaurant, Tucan's, and I used to do real well there as well. Good luck. Dirty Nails

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There have been several people arrested for MD the damaged base housing and different buildings on base.

I also did very well on base over the years. Housing used to allow detecting of the vacant properties. Granted, this was before the privatization. They continued after the privatization but folks spoiled it with holes and wondering onto occupied residence. The base took a very hard line around 2010.

I agree, Mexico beach in the winter time was a great place to go. Very productive.

JCinPC said:

..... 43 years military and federal service combined...

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JC-in-PC : To start with : Thank you for your service to our country.

I can assure you that there is not comprehensive "no md'ing rule" on *all* military bases across the USA (specifically as-such). If there is something specific at *that* particular base, then I am guessing it came about as a result of : Someone(s), years ago, went asking "can I?" type questions. Hence some past-brass made a rule to "address the pressing issue".

The reason I cast doubt (questioned you) is that most of the times, when anyone says "Not allowed" at such-&-such places, then when you quiz them, they'll reply in one of the following ways :

a) "That's what I heard someone else say"

b) "I asked, and they told me no" (which could/might be nothing more than the 'no one cared till you asked' psychology at-play)

c) "I got scrammed" (which might be nothing more than a bored MP having a bad hair day)

d) "I saw something in the verbiage that addressed harvest & remove, Lost & found, etc...." (which ... if taken to mean no md'ing, then kills md'ing @ the entire USA)

So lots of times, when you hear/see such dire-sounding things, and say "says who ?", they oft-times fall apart.

Tom, thanks. I’m actually familiar with your passion over the topic of permissions and your reasons to not ask for them. Note I didn’t say “all”. I said “most” (I have my reasons and don’t care to write another book) and later clarified “do your research”. If nothing else, those who md on installations) should (<—- not directive in nature) check the regs.


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All,
When I was at Tyndall (Nov 2017 to Oct 2018), MD'ing was not yet specifically listed on the prohibited activities list. I stayed mainly in what was the housing areas, sports fields, and playgrounds. Believe it or not, every Saturday morning Security Forces personnel would come over and ask if I had found anything cool. However, the weekend prior to Hurricane Michael (Columbus Day Weekend), a Game Warden approached and informed me that MD'ing was about to be added to the prohibited activities list due to possibility of detecting and digging up ancient unexploded ordnance. Anyway, that's how it was a couple years ago. We lost 2/3's of everything we owned, we lived in two hotel rooms for nine weeks at our evacuation area (NOT as fun as it sounds), and then we got relocated to SE Virginia. I hope the recovery and rebuilding is going well.

Dirty Nails, I read it in the TAFBI appx 2013-2014 timeframe. The TAFBI I’m referencing is a Wing level, not a Group level Security Forces AFI. To say that “MD-ing was not yet specifically listed” on the “prohibited activities” list might be true of your reference, but assuming my reference was still in effect, then it was prohibited during your entire service there. Unless they’re briefed, it’s doubtful SFS even knows about it, as evidenced by your encounter with them.
There is a good chance we’re referencing two different sources. I checked AF E-pubs but it’s not listed there. Also, it’s possible my reference was rescinded while under revision and now falls under a new series and POC, but highly doubtful. If so, then I stand corrected. No shame in not knowing everything all the time.
Sounds to me like the FWC was blowing smoke. While FWC might be cognizant of Florida law concerning MDing on Federal property, it’s obvious this individual was not aware Tyndall had an existing reference. If they had, you might be giving us a different take. Those folks are not smiling, asking questions and chatting you up because they want to be your friend. They’re at work. I’ll contact the POC but might take a minute to get an answer. I also have a question for you. Check your PM.

edited for further clarification.



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Welcome to the forum and the hobby!!

JCinPC said:

...cognizant of Florida law concerning MDing on Federal property,....

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J-in-PC, is your notion that md'ing is "specifically disallowed there", based on "MD'ing on federal property" ? Ie.: So : Not just "military bases", but essentially "all federal property" ? If so, then you must be alluding to ARPA type stuff. Right ? If so : That does not make specific reference to md'ing. It only applies to old stuff (variously interpretted as items over 50, or over 100 yrs. old). Ok , fine then, you're only looking for modern stuff . Eh ?

And despite what POC might say to someone's "pressing question", yet it is sort of ironic that dirty-nails could go there, and get nothing but a friendly wave and "good luck" and totally ignored.

Not saying to "throw caution to the wind", but just sayin' that, sometimes it's possible to over-think things.

Tom_in_CA said:

J-in-PC, is your notion that md'ing is...

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I suspect you misconstrued my silence as defeat. On the contrary. I researched, I’m correct, and preferred to leave it at that. Now, you compel me to reply.
Suffice it to say, my previous comments are correct, to include my comments regarding Dirty Nails’ brush with the authorities. The rule was in effect prior to, during, and remains the same to date. It was not in the process of being updated, or included; it was already there. FWC was blowing smoke, and SFS didn’t know either. They probably still don’t.
You could have just asked me if I made any progress. Seemed more like an attempt to either discredit my comments and/or prove you’re right. It’s become, in a word, tomfoolery.

JCinPC said:

.... The rule was ....

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Huh ? Please define "rule" here. Do/did you mean a specific "no md'ing" rule ? That is actually in print somewhere ? And not someone's "safe answer" to a "pressing question", yet-that-appears no-where in print.

Or were you referring to the catch-all cultural heritage federal ARPA type language ? Can you please be specific as to what you mean by "rule" ?

thanx.

Tom_in_CA said:

Huh ? Please define "rule" here. Do/did you mean a specific "no md'ing" rule ? That is actually in print somewhere ? And not someone's "safe answer" to a "pressing question", yet-that-appears no-where in print.

Or were you referring to the catch-all cultural heritage federal ARPA type language ? Can you please be specific as to what you mean by "rule" ?

thanx.

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Definition of the rule is a specific “no md-ing” rule, so yes.
Yes, it’s actually in print somewhere.
No, it’s not someone’s ”safe answer” to a “pressing question”
What is this “pressing question” you keep referring to?

Tom_in_CA said:

...yet-that-appears no-where in print.

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who said that and how did you come to this conclusion?

No, I am not referring to the catch-all cultural heritage federal ARPA type language.

Tom_in_CA;3257128Can you please be specific as to what you mean by "[B said:

rule[/B]" ?

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You already asked this. See first answer to first question.

JCinPC said:

.... No, I am not referring to the catch-all cultural heritage federal ARPA type language....

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In your post #27, it appeared that that was what you were relying on ("Florida law" and "federal property" in general) that led you to your conclusion

JCinPC said:

....What is this “pressing question” you keep referring to?....

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Also in your post #27, you allude to "asking the POC", right ? And by that I assume you meant that you ask them: "Hi, is md'ing allowed here ?". In which case there's been scores of examples of people doing this at various public places , and getting arbitrary "no's". Eg.: show up at city hall somewhere, and get a whimsical "no", at places that, quite frankly, were never an issue before to anyone else. So perhaps whomever desk-jockey you're asking has images of geeks with shovels. So he passes out a "safe" answer to this "pressing question". That's what I was referring to. [AKA: The old "no one cared till you asked" psychology ]

And actually, there'd be no reason to even ask, if, as you say, there's already a specific "no md'ing" rule there, eh ?

Tom_in_CA said:

In your post #27, it appeared that that was what you were relying on ("Florida law" and "federal property" in general) that led you to your conclusion



Also in your post #27, you allude to "asking the POC", right ? And by that I assume you meant that you ask them: "Hi, is md'ing allowed here ?". In which case there's been scores of examples of people doing this at various public places , and getting arbitrary "no's". Eg.: show up at city hall somewhere, and get a whimsical "no", at places that, quite frankly, were never an issue before to anyone else. So perhaps whomever desk-jockey you're asking has images of geeks with shovels. So he passes out a "safe" answer to this "pressing question". That's what I was referring to. [AKA: The old "no one cared till you asked" psychology ]

And actually, there'd be no reason to even ask, if, as you say, there's already a specific "no md'ing" rule there, eh ?

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Makes good sense to me. I dodge some public spots because of hearsay of "no detecting allowed" but seeing the actual rule in print is like 1 in 100. I understand both sides here though. I wimp out easily with one hint detecting isn't allowed, but most always...there was never any registered official print against it.

Tomfoolery !!! Kinda glad to see someone else sucked into Tom's permission vortex other than THE KOB. Trust me , he has all the answers. If you were to hit him over the head with a sign or showed him legit documentation about "No MDing" , he will say it's just a fluke. Tom is the most passionate there is about permissions. It took me along time to figure this cat out and what he's trying to get across. It can drive you crazy and in circles. But after his background of being in a club years ago , I totally get it.

Tom_in_CA said:

........show up at city hall somewhere, and get a whimsical "no", at places that, quite frankly, were never an issue before to anyone else. So perhaps whomever desk-jockey you're asking has images of geeks with shovels. So he passes out a "safe" answer to this "pressing question". That's what I was referring to. [AKA: The old "no one cared till you asked" psychology ]

And actually, there'd be no reason to even ask, if, as you say, there's already a specific "no md'ing" rule there, eh ?

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KOB said:

......Tom is the most passionate there is about permissions.....

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Hey, Tom might have learned the "no one cared till you asked" scenario from personal experience back when he was a noob at detecting and didn't realize there was no written rules against detecting in the parks he asked about, so there was no need to ask.

.......can you picture detecting noob Tom asking an official for permission way back when ?

GKL said:

Hey, Tom might have learned the "no one cared till you asked" scenario from personal experience back when he was a noob at detecting and didn't realize there was no written rules against detecting in the parks he asked about, so there was no need to ask.

.......can you picture detecting noob Tom asking an official for permission way back when ?
View attachment 472238

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But he's not in handcuffs

GKL said:

Hey, Tom might have learned the "no one cared till you asked" scenario from personal experience back when he was a noob at detecting and didn't realize there was no written rules against detecting in the parks he asked about, so there was no need to ask.

.......can you picture detecting noob Tom asking an official for permission way back when ?
View attachment 472238

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GKL, Can I have your permission to print this out and add it to my md'ing display cabinets ? Although .... this is gonna be hard to explain to the party guests !

Tom_in_CA said:

GKL, Can I have your permission to print this out and add it to my md'ing display cabinets ? Although .... this is gonna be hard to explain to the party guests !

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Sure you can print it out Tom, glad you enjoyed it that much to want to print it out !
......maybe explain to your guests they are seeing what a very naive detecting noob looks like

......especially walking in there with a shovel and a shirt with that graphic on the back and seeing someone who likely has no clue how a detectorist digs proper plugs (and no idea there is not any written rule against detecting there) to ask them about detecting in parks

GKL said:

......especially walking in there with a shovel and ....

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Well, YES OF COURSE : You need to walk in to their offices with a shovel. Lest they not get the full implication of the question. Right ?

And be sure to pepper the question with words like "dig", and "remove" and "take" and "treasure" and "Indian bones". Lest you be mincing words, and failing to be less than forthcoming. Right ?