Kicked OUT OF THE WATER TODAY **UPDATE** Post 66

Tom_in_CA said:

Nobody is doubting any part of your story. We're just saying that .... sometimes in this life, there comes a time when ... unfortunately .... you give lip service. Even if/when you "asked permission". Even if/when threatened, etc...

As for "bowing down", there is sometimes a fine line between explaining oneself, to arguing. Yes I know it's totally capricious and whimsical and "not fair". But sometimes life ISN'T fair.

And I say this with utmost respect, because I know you prevailed on a prior fabled experience. The stuff of legends in reading here.

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I won't argue. I was out. I did have my gear off and ready to pack in my truck. The officer didn't want to hear that I had ASKED and that is where one of the problems were. I won't mention the other problems as it isn't worth it. I will see tomorrow what I can do about it. Even if I file a lawsuit , folks won't agree with me. That is why it is useless to explain myself on here. Folks have opinions and they stick with them even without hearing everything. Peace!

Tom_in_CA said:

... when it comes to this hobby: Sometimes you have to pick your battles.
...

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Who are you and how did you hijack Tom's ID?

Go for it Scuba!!!!!!!!!!

Ran into many "types" of cops...… some listen some don't - some are laid back some are on a power trip - good mood some grumpy - some love their job some seem miserable...…….. but one thing is always (almost) consistent….. they all present themselves as being right... regardless of the situation. Even the best of the best aren't "all knowing" or 100% right all the time....

Some times they need to be reminded that they are public servants and threats aren't taken lightly...……


GL & HH

Well I got a call from my lawyer last night at 8PM. Not the news I wanted to hear but it is what it is.

I was going to write up what I was told and started it but I decided that was the wrong thing to do. With the folks on here that do not agree with me or don't like me, they would see an opportunity to give ammunition to the person harassing me.

So, I am going back. If the officer decides to carry out all his threats, I will have another day in court. I can't file a motion to have a judge make a ruling without a citation which I had hoped.

I also can't get damages if he confiscates all my gear. I will be a little inconvenienced but now I need to buy another BC as a backup so if it does happen I will still be diving.

It is what it is. No idea when it will happen but stay tuned.

They need a new book.

ScubaDetector said:

... or don't like me, ....

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No one on here dislikes you. Your posts are great reads, and your passion is bar none.

Sometimes "scram" (and even dire-sounding threats that accompany it) only mean "let it die down, and come back later when the singular griper is gone ". It doesn't mean dispute the scram.

And yes, I know we're probably not seeing eye-to-eye on the word "dispute". I know you're saying you were calm, smiling, "only explaining", etc... But this is where there's a fine-line going on. And .... cops have to be given latitude for the in-field quick-reaction edicts. Yes I know that sounds capricious and unfair. But if everyone was allowed to enter into technicalities discussions (whether or not another cop gave you permission, etc...), then imagine the chaos : The streets would be filled with people "having friendly discussions" with cops , that never end. At some point, there has to be some ability, on their part, to do what they think is best.

Might they be wrong ? SURE ! But here's a little secret: They're not there a week from now. I've been scrammed more times than I can remember (demolition sites, turfed parks, etc....) . I might meekly try to state my case. But then, If I'm not prevailing .... it's lip-service time. Then come back later when mister or misses lookie-lou is not around (chances are, they're mostly one-time flukes, if there's no actual law or rule).

Tom_in_CA said:

No one on here dislikes you. Your posts are great reads, and your passion is bar none.

Sometimes "scram" (and even dire-sounding threats that accompany it) only mean "let it die down, and come back later when the singular griper is gone ". It doesn't mean dispute the scram.

And yes, I know we're probably not seeing eye-to-eye on the word "dispute". I know you're saying you were calm, smiling, "only explaining", etc... But this is where there's a fine-line going on. And .... cops have to be given latitude for the in-field quick-reaction edicts. Yes I know that sounds capricious and unfair. But if everyone was allowed to enter into technicalities discussions (whether or not another cop gave you permission, etc...), then imagine the chaos : The streets would be filled with people "having friendly discussions" with cops , that never end. At some point, there has to be some ability, on their part, to do what they think is best.

Might they be wrong ? SURE ! But here's a little secret: They're not there a week from now. I've been scrammed more times than I can remember (demolition sites, turfed parks, etc....) . I might meekly try to state my case. But then, If I'm not prevailing .... it's lip-service time. Then come back later when mister or misses lookie-lou is not around (chances are, they're mostly one-time flukes, if there's no actual law or rule).

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Tom, unfortunately you are wrong on the second paragraph. They ARE there. In fact that is where they are stationed less than half a mile away. And the person in charge KNOWS I beat them two years ago. There really are some folks on here that might relay my thoughts or actions I am going to take.

The Detroit Police Harbormaster from what I have been told are officers that do not fit into the normal slots, or officers that have had problems. They are given essentially a desk job and a boat to play with. The person that belittled me and threatened me happens to be in charge of the whole operation. So this is why I have to do what I am doing. If I do not stand up for what is right, I tuck my tail and run. That will not happen as long as I know I am within my rights.

Would I have left if they were searching where I was? ABSOLUTELY. Even if they came to me and told me the officer made a mistake. NO PROBLEM. I do not deserve the harassment, or belittling of my company or my name by anyone with or without a badge. I have a LEGAL company. I have a LEGAL right to dive where I was. At that time is NOT AN ISSUE. The issue is all the threats and harassment he said he will give me if he sees me there again. And being his headquarters is so close, he or someone is there ALL THE TIME.

I know we don't always agree like I said before. Neither do Chuck or Ice agree with me and I know their are others. Maybe some on here think they would get brownie points if they relayed everything to the station. I have NO CLUE and I just don't want to give them the heads up.

Well if it were me, and if it was a turfed-park at issue, here's the common rejoinder for that: Night-time turf hunting is so peaceful & serene. But alas, nights are not an option for scuba diving.

I wish you the best bro !

Tom_in_CA said:

Well if it were me, and if it was a turfed-park at issue, here's the common rejoinder for that: Night-time turf hunting is so peaceful & serene. But alas, nights are not an option for scuba diving.

I wish you the best bro !

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I can dive at night. However it is a state park. Closed and patrolled by state police. Wish I could! The whole island is closed to anyone.

I don't know the laws in MI, but in my state you may secretly record any conversation that you are party to and video anything in plain sight where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. I'd do my best to capture any threatening words, actions, or postures for later use in court.

Well regardless of all the law and cop stuff I'm glad you're staying busy recovering items for people. Sounds like you're real busy. GL!

KinTN said:

I don't know the laws in MI, but in my state you may secretly record any conversation that you are party to and video anything in plain sight where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. I'd do my best to capture any threatening words, actions, or postures for later use in court.

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I can but my lawyer said there is no way you can collect anything from the Detroit Police unless you are physically attacked by one. They can take my truck, my gear, and make me find a ride home. Would it stick? Absolutely not. But he can inconvenience me and it happens all the time there. He would know.

So he can carry out all his threats. I only care about my vehicle. I am contemplating parking in Detroit and getting a cab. Putting my cell phone in a waterproof bag in my float so I have it to call the cab back.

ScubaDetector said:

I can but my lawyer said there is no way you can collect anything from the Detroit Police unless you are physically attacked by one. They can take my truck, my gear, and make me find a ride home. Would it stick? Absolutely not. But he can inconvenience me and it happens all the time there. He would know.

So he can carry out all his threats. I only care about my vehicle. I am contemplating parking in Detroit and getting a cab. Putting my cell phone in a waterproof bag in my float so I have it to call the cab back.

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Maybe just for self defense in court then. As others have said (and you know) there are some idiot LE out there who will lie.

Tom_in_CA said:

No one on here dislikes you. Your posts are great reads, and your passion is bar none.

Sometimes "scram" (and even dire-sounding threats that accompany it) only mean "let it die down, and come back later when the singular griper is gone ". It doesn't mean dispute the scram.

And yes, I know we're probably not seeing eye-to-eye on the word "dispute". I know you're saying you were calm, smiling, "only explaining", etc... But this is where there's a fine-line going on. And .... cops have to be given latitude for the in-field quick-reaction edicts. Yes I know that sounds capricious and unfair. But if everyone was allowed to enter into technicalities discussions (whether or not another cop gave you permission, etc...), then imagine the chaos : The streets would be filled with people "having friendly discussions" with cops , that never end. At some point, there has to be some ability, on their part, to do what they think is best.

Might they be wrong ? SURE ! But here's a little secret: They're not there a week from now. I've been scrammed more times than I can remember (demolition sites, turfed parks, etc....) . I might meekly try to state my case. But then, If I'm not prevailing .... it's lip-service time. Then come back later when mister or misses lookie-lou is not around (chances are, they're mostly one-time flukes, if there's no actual law or rule).

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Good post Tom, but I'm not sure why you're not being called out as a troll. Maybe it's because I'm in Idaho, but I've never had a run in with law enforcement.

Scooterjim said:

I believe the percentage of honest cops is the same as the percentage of honest employees in any field, but it only takes one crooked one to ruin your day. Look at Dixiedigger57's post, he got his ass chewed 30 years ago and he's still mad about it. If he wasn't a good guy who knows what he would do for revenge. I have personally witnessed bad cops in action, it's a shame the few bad ones sully the reputation of the good ones.

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I hope that your statement about honesty is wrong. I worked in the retail trade for 14 years and we lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to theft. Employees stole about the same amount as the general public. I would hope that there would be far less dishonest police officers.

georgeinsc said:

I hope that your statement about honesty is wrong. I worked in the retail trade for 14 years and we lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to theft. Employees stole about the same amount as the general public. I would hope that there would be far less dishonest police officers.

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I stand by my statement, most of the big retailers have a background check almost as restrictive as the ones to be a cop, I also think there is a level of honesty, the truly corrupt cops are rare, but most have probably broke a rule or two, My favorite cop used to look for underage drinkers, very few, maybe none were arrested but their alcohol would get confiscated, sometimes, depending on age parents were called or car keys were taken and your dad could pick them up in the morning. He would take kegs and taps back to the liquor store for the $75 dollar deposit. I think he may have crossed the line with a cooler of steaks, but they were excellent steaks. He threw some great parties even had the cops called a time or two.

georgeinsc said:

I hope that your statement about honesty is wrong. I worked in the retail trade for 14 years and we lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to theft. Employees stole about the same amount as the general public. I would hope that there would be far less dishonest police officers.

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I was loss prevention supervisor for a small group of stores in Utah and Wyoming. Smiths Food King. During my almost 5 years of employment I arrested two police officers and a member of the Utah House of Representatives. I arrested way more employees. But that was my experience. While I was a cop I met crooked cops. Will cops lie on the witness stand. Absolutely.

A LOT of cops just want to help others and keep their jurisdiction safe. There are others that feel they can push folks around because they have a badge. MY feeling is the latter with the harbormaster. We have butted heads from the first day I met him. He has authority, I am a pain.

We all know there are folks we will never get along with. No matter how many white flags we put in front of them. We won't fit in. I have tried to talk to him but I have got nowhere. This will take a judge to decide I am afraid and maybe a big inconvenience to me but it has to be done.

Did I cause it? Possibly and probably. I did not turn tail and run from the Wayne County Sheriff. So now I have to finish it and see if I am within my rights or if I am wrong.

Tom-in-CA is a great guy. He doesn't ALWAYS agree with me but he respects me. That is what we need on here. Respect to and from each other.

I asked the mods to delete my last thread and they did. I don't need a can of worms opened up on here nor do I need folks bashing my decisions or my actions.

We all have reasons why we do the things we do when we are confronted. I have absolutely no criminal record nor do I try to break laws. I make mistakes. I state my position when confronted and some in authority appreciate it but others do not. Like the 9 times the police were called on me in one lake. The first 6 times I stated the law and I gave them all the information they wanted. The officers made sure I was right, were polite and left. The 7th time the officer wouldn't budge, neither would his supervisor and I demanded a citation. I got it and it was dismissed.

It is what it is. I am going back. If the Sgt makes good on his threats we will see what the judge says in the final decision. In my opinion and in my lawyers opinion, I am being harassed now but there is nothing I can do about it.

ScubaDetector said:

.... The 7th time the officer wouldn't budge, neither would his supervisor and I demanded a citation. I got it and it was dismissed....

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Regarding that past thread : As one who is intrigued by the legal angles of our hobby : That was an unforgettable cliff-hanger.

As far as your current situation : Equally as intriguing. But I'm glad it's more-to-do with "diving" than "md'ing" (since the fact of your md'ing doesn't appear to have been his gripe, right ?). And will appear to have only-to-do with *just* that singular LEO, and *just* that singular lake, and *just* scuba diving.

Keep us tuned. Keep calm. We wish you the best.

I agree

ScubaDetector said:

I was loss prevention supervisor for a small group of stores in Utah and Wyoming. Smiths Food King. During my almost 5 years of employment I arrested two police officers and a member of the Utah House of Representatives. I arrested way more employees. But that was my experience. While I was a cop I met crooked cops. Will cops lie on the witness stand. Absolutely.

A LOT of cops just want to help others and keep their jurisdiction safe. There are others that feel they can push folks around because they have a badge. MY feeling is the latter with the harbormaster. We have butted heads from the first day I met him. He has authority, I am a pain.

We all know there are folks we will never get along with. No matter how many white flags we put in front of them. We won't fit in. I have tried to talk to him but I have got nowhere. This will take a judge to decide I am afraid and maybe a big inconvenience to me but it has to be done.

Did I cause it? Possibly and probably. I did not turn tail and run from the Wayne County Sheriff. So now I have to finish it and see if I am within my rights or if I am wrong.

Tom-in-CA is a great guy. He doesn't agree with me but he respects me. That is what we need on here. Respect to and from each other.

I asked the mods to delete my last thread and they did. I don't need a can of worms opened up on here nor do I need folks bashing my decisions or my actions.

We all have reasons why we do the things we do when we are confronted. I have absolutely no criminal record nor do I try to break laws. I make mistakes. I state my position when confronted and some in authority appreciate it but others do not. Like the 9 times the police were called on me in one lake. The first 6 times I stated the law and I gave them all the information they wanted. The officers made sure I was right, were polite and left. The 7th time the officer wouldn't budge, neither would his supervisor and I demanded a citation. I got it and it was dismissed.

It is what it is. I am going back. If the Sgt makes good on his threats we will see what the judge says in the final decision. In my opinion and in my lawyers opinion, I am being harassed now but there is nothing I can do about it.

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Go back and if you get a citation, work it out with the judge.
Chuck

Chuck-N-Detroit said:

Go back and if you get a citation, work it out with the judge.
Chuck

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Thanks Chuck and Tom. I did repair the statement I made about you not agreeing with me Tom. I changed it to you don't ALWAYS agree with me instead of leaving folks to believe we are always at odds with each other