When to ask permission...

shedigz

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Joined
Jul 28, 2013
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754
Location
Pittsburgh PA Area
I was under the impression that on parks, schools and curb strips there was no need to ask permission because its public property. But others on other forums seem to disagree.
Do you or don't you need permission?
 
Generally with parks I don't ask for permission, but the term "parks" can have varying types - large public parks I don't feel the need to ask - small memorial parks I tend to inquire with the village or town police - usually I'm good to go.

Curb strips in front of peoples houses are technically public property - however, the right thing to do is let the homeowner know what you are doing - or at the very least see if they don't mind. Seeing someone randomly dig in front of my house would bother me, since although it may not be my property - it is front of my house, so politeness and logic should dictate in my opinion - however, there are some on this forum who will disagree.

I've found that if you ask the principal of a school they tend to be totally cool with it, and ask that you just don't leave holes - I've never had a school turn me away yet.

Everyone has different experiences, use your best judgment.
 
Our schools and parks in my town are all private, and require permission or accompany property owners to those spots.

Because of that, we have some of the nicest parks in the state, because those who use them, own them and take care of them as if they are our own, because they are. :)

Not all town parks are public.... as stated above. Likewise, not all parks are public during school hours... one school in a neighboring town butts up to a park and is school property until 5 pm through the week

Always best to find out first than to be in an awkward position due to "assuming" because not all town ordinances are the same across the board.

Some allow detecting with no digging, some dont allow detecting or digging the soil, some allow detecting but only with permission, etc... varies place to place.

Public doesn't mean we can have free reign to do anything there we decide to, although some seem to think it does...lol :)
 
I'm under the impression that city parks are wide open range unless posted.

I'm also under the impression that school's are more than likely to ask you to leave the property unless you are there in after hours or during the summer or holidays.

Curb strips are "supposedly" free range as well, but I have never tried that theory as of yet. I have heard that some home owners will claim to have ownership of them and it's best IMHO to leave without debating the issue.

I personally feel it's best to ask in an environment where you are not sure about whether or not MD'n is allowed.

HDD
 
Depends on the state laws and local ordinances at the location. Here in Massachusetts public parks are open to metal detecting, but not in certain towns (like Clinton) where they have local ordinances against it, and not in certain parks, where the individual park has a rule against it.

For public schools, it's a difficult question. It's public land, and on any given weekend you will find locals on public school grounds using the playground, or the basketball court, or playing frisbee or volleyball in the athletic field. It's a fair bet that none of those folks asked permission to use the facilities, and so in effect it's a lot like a public park. Most of the people I've talked to about detecting public schools suggest that if you aren't there during school hours, are respectful of the land and posted rules (like 'no trespassing after sunset' or whatever), then you don't need to ask permission.

For curb strips, again it is down to state and local laws in the area.
 
I was under the impression that on parks, schools and curb strips there was no need to ask permission because its public property. But others on other forums seem to disagree.
Do you or don't you need permission?

If there were a rule that said "no metal detecting", then yes. But if there's no rule saying that, why would you need permission ? Anymore so than you'd need permission to fly a frisbee, for instance.

I suppose if someone thinks that md'ing is inherently dangerous, damaging, evil, etc..., then sure: ask away. But since when is that a premise ?

The notion that you've read that you "need permission", is probably born out of experience md'rs had, that someone griped. (Let's face it, detecting in turf has connotations afterall :roll: ). But the fact that "someone might gripe", still does not mean that "therefore, you should ask permission", IMHO.

Reason is: That you risk a "no", where no such rule really exists. And perhaps they'd never even have given the matter a moment's thought ! (till you came in with your "pressing question", in need of their "princely blessing").

Also, even if you found someone in city hall to give you a "Yes", there is no shortage of stories of persons who STILL get accosted by some nosy-parker. The md'r proudly whips out their "permission", only to have it promptly revoked, when the griper gets on his cell-phone, calls to city-hall, and gripes that you're "tearing the place up" (which isn't true, of course).

Thus permission isn't necessary where not prohibited, nor is it the solve-all it seems to be. Your best bet is to avoid gripers, if you're going to hunt turf. Like nose-picking: not necessarily illegal, but you pick discreet times so as not to offend people.
 
.... I personally feel it's best to ask in an environment where you are not sure about whether or not MD'n is allowed....

HDD: Does metal detecting need an express "allowance" ? Eg.: a sign or rule that says "metal detecting allowed here" type-of-thing ? Why does something need an express allowance, in order to be able to do it ? For example: do we see signs saying "skipping stones on the pond allowed here?"

And what would the person you're asking, base his answer on ? His own person mood or opinion ? If so, would you consider that rather arbitrary? Or would they base their answer some actual ordinance, rule, or law? Because if it's true that you're asking them "what is the law" (versus "what is your feeling"), then why can't the md'r simply look up the laws for himself then ? Certainly municipal codes, charter, laws, rules, etc.... can be looked up for oneself, eh ?
 
Spent a lot of time detecting a small town park (been VERY good to me) and had one clown come up to me, tell me he was the town mayor and proceed to tell me they don't allow detecting there. Went to talk to city clerk and she said there is no ordinance against it and furthermore, they have no mayor. So sometimes people just want to be involved in things they have no business in. Have detected there since then and same guy keeps telling me I can't hunt there. I told him, "your honor, there is no ordinance against it." He hasn't bothered me since.
 
......, some dont allow ..... digging the soil .....
Hi Nectar: It's not "some" here that don't allow digging in the soil. It's ALL. I have no doubt that in every single park across the entire USA, that there is some form of fashion of verbage that will dis-allow digging. The word might be "deface", or "alter", or whatever, but .... trust me, it's there.

So if that is to necessarily mean "no detecting" (which I agree, it's difficult to wriggle out of), then let's all just save our time, and not md parks anywhere. Oh, and not even "permission" surmounts that. Because no public official can "allow" you break laws. For example: they can not authorize you to exceed speed limits, shoplift, cheat on your taxes, etc..... Right ?

.... Public doesn't mean we can have free reign to do anything there we decide to ....

Correct. That's why we look up rules and laws. And .. if they said "no md'ing", then you're right: we do not have free reign to do that then.
 
Spent a lot of time detecting a small town park (been VERY good to me) and had one clown come up to me, tell me he was the town mayor and proceed to tell me they don't allow detecting there. Went to talk to city clerk and she said there is no ordinance against it and furthermore, they have no mayor. So sometimes people just want to be involved in things they have no business in. Have detected there since then and same guy keeps telling me I can't hunt there. I told him, "your honor, there is no ordinance against it." He hasn't bothered me since.

Interesting story pastor Bob. Do you have any idea how many people would have taken your initial encounter, and just assumed "it's illegal" ?

We had a situation here, where word spread amongst club members that "such & such city is off-limits at all parks and schools there". No one seemed to question it. One day, I began to ask the persons who were saying that "where did you get that information?". I was able to trace it back to a single person who ...... 20+ yrs. earlier, had had a single busy-body tell him that. So he dutifully reported it to others, who in turn spread the word to others and ....... before you know it, it's just taken as gospel fact !

And like your situation, now ....... 20 yrs. later, (and 40 yrs. after the busy-body encounter), you can detect in that city's parks and ...... no problem. So not every single "scram" (even from someone in the color of authority) makes it absolute law. Nor does it mean you "need to go fight city hall now", etc... Sometimes it simply means "avoid that one busy-body in the future".
 
Hi Nectar: It's not "some" here that don't allow digging in the soil. It's ALL. I have no doubt that in every single park across the entire USA, that there is some form of fashion of verbage that will dis-allow digging. The word might be "deface", or "alter", or whatever, but .... trust me, it's there.

So if that is to necessarily mean "no detecting" (which I agree, it's difficult to wriggle out of), then let's all just save our time, and not md parks anywhere. Oh, and not even "permission" surmounts that. Because no public official can "allow" you break laws. For example: they can not authorize you to exceed speed limits, shoplift, cheat on your taxes, etc..... Right ?



Correct. That's why we look up rules and laws. And .. if they said "no md'ing", then you're right: we do not have free reign to do that then.

All laws and ordinances, rules means to you is a chance to figure out a way to skirt the rules, bend the wording until it's to your liking and then do things your way anyway. That's how you roll...

Like you wouldn't squeeze through the fence to detect regardless of rules anyway, right.:roll:
 
.... Like you wouldn't squeeze through the fence to detect regardless of rules anyway, right.:roll:

Well the question wasn't about demolition sites with the obligatory fences around them, was it ? If the question is about THAT different topic, then sure: No one should do old-town urban demolition sites with fences (or even orange ribbon too I suppose) around them. Nor should you exceed the speed limit, etc.... Sure. But this question was not about that. Nice try :cool:
 
I have hunted neighborhood curb strips in my town and rarely have a problem. Here the curb strip is not public property but an easement is given to the utility companies to dig, run wires or erect poles and such. The property still belongs to the owner. I ask permission in front of residences but have hunted some strips in front of businesses that are closed in the evenings or on Sundays. I have never had a problem and rarely get turned down for permission on the curb strip. Check your local ordinances and it will probably be more defined. I have never had a problem hunting schools in my area. I do not cross fenced areas without permission though. I never hunt when school is in session and usually will wait until the weekend or school vacations. Our parks do not have ordinances specifically addressing metal detecting but the city does have ordinances against defacing or disturbing plants or grassy areas. I have been told by the parks director, after him watching me detect for a while, that he didn't mind because I was not damaging anything but that the police might stop me and tell me that I was violating the ordinance. I haven't had a problem to this point. Local laws and ordinances vary so you need to just check the area where you detect and see what they say.
 
HDD: Does metal detecting need an express "allowance" ? Eg.: a sign or rule that says "metal detecting allowed here" type-of-thing ? Why does something need an express allowance, in order to be able to do it ? For example: do we see signs saying "skipping stones on the pond allowed here?"

And what would the person you're asking, base his answer on ? His own person mood or opinion ? If so, would you consider that rather arbitrary? Or would they base their answer some actual ordinance, rule, or law? Because if it's true that you're asking them "what is the law" (versus "what is your feeling"), then why can't the md'r simply look up the laws for himself then ? Certainly municipal codes, charter, laws, rules, etc.... can be looked up for oneself, eh ?

I'd like to see one of them "metal detecting allowed here" signs. :p

I believe I answered her question in relationship to all three areas, parks, schools and curb strips.

My final comment was meant to cover any other environment where there might be a question about ownership.

As a representative of the MD hobby, I want to leave a positive impression where ever and when ever I can.

HDD
 
If the school is open to the public after school hours, I don't ask permission. I feel that I have just as much right to be there as the next guy, as long as I follow the "leave no trace" rule. Often if you ask someone for permission to detect a place and they don't know if it's allowed, they will err on the side of caution and tell you it isn't, even when no such rule exists. Your best bet is to check town ordinances and park rules for yourself. I have detected public schools right in front of school officials and police officers without a problem.

A tip: carry trash like rusty nails you find with you so if anyone is skeptical you can show them that by detecting you are helping to keep their kids safe. I have had many parents thank me for detecting once they see the kind of trash I pick up.
 
I call the City Parks Administration and ask them in any new town I go to...so far all I have got is approval as long as you don't "tear the place up". Curb strips I do without asking as long as they are not obviously planted with flowers or otherwise decorated by the homeowner. If someone comes out and says to stop, I stop and move on down the road. So far, no one has confronted me or called the police. Since I do not leave a mess and you rarely can tell where I have even been, I expect if the police were called they would just tell me to move along as well.
 
Use common sense, be polite, and realize, you have an inherit ability to use anything "Public", in one way or another, you are helping fund it.

I.E, I will hunt public schools, curb strips and such without asking.

If anyone questions me I am very polite and explain how serious of a point I make to clean up after my holes, and remove hazardous materials. Take a risk if you must, clean up your holes, be polite, and quit worrying.

I've had cops show up, they are always cool, never freak out, if you're polite and explain what you do, and that it is a hobby.

Tom In CA has added lots of useful insight on this one,

Thanks Tom
 
I was under the impression that on parks, schools and curb strips there was no need to ask permission because its public property. But others on other forums seem to disagree.
Do you or don't you need permission?

- Always respect private property and do no metal detecting without the owner's permission.
- Before searching public sites, always check laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern your hunt.


This is from the MDer code of ethics. Here is the link:
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=639
 
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- Before searching public sites, always check laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern your hunt.
...

Ok. And some people have made the mis-interpretation of that to mean: "Ask someone in authority 'can I?' " Or, go as "what are the laws ?", or "go ask permission from someone", etc...

But if you read it closely, it only says to check (to know) the laws and regulations. And note that you & I can do that, by looking up said laws/rules for ourselves.
 
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