youngnewiowan21
Full Member
There is a couple of properties that my city own, not public like parks or anything, and I was wondering what department or who I would ask to get permission to detect them? Any Suggestions?
City Owned Property
- Thread starter youngnewiowan21
- Start date
gordonquixote
Elite Member
Fixed it for you.
If it's not posted, gated, or fenced, you will have to make a judgement call on whether or not to detect it. The worst that can happen is that you will be asked to leave. City property is legally no different than a curb strip.
I'm not a lawyer....proceed at your own risk.
Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 20,742
If they're city owned, and not fenced or posted, why would you need "permission", to begin with? All you need to do is make sure there's not a city-wide ban on detectors (where it is simply not allowed within the entire city, for instance). And if it's not prohibited, then .... so be it.
And rarely EVER is there a city-wide ban (I can't think of any, as a matter of fact), for just the "city in general". Oh sure there are some cities who might have such a rule for their PARKS. But .... as your post says, this is not parks. And a park rule (like "closed at sunset", etc...) doesn't necessarily apply to all city land (lest how would any of us drive, or walk our dogs after sunset, down city streets, doh!)
mountain digger
Elite Member
When you say "city owned" and "not public like parks or anything" confuses me. So, without further clarity on what type of city property you are talking about, I'd just ask you to remember the old saying: Seek advice but use your own common sense. Please also note that I'm not suggesting that you ask permission...just seek advice.
Not sure what everyone else is saying but I'm saying if it's city property, it's public. It doesn't matter if it's empty or not. Doesn't matter if it's 1/4 acre or 1,00 acres. Public means public. You pay taxes so you own every piece and so does everyone else. Go have fun, and find some goodies.
Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 20,742
I would agree with that. Unless there's a fence or sign prohibiting you from being there, or unless there's some city-wide rule forbidding detecting, then yes.
WildDigger
Elite Member
I know what you mean by city owned. We have some here and it is slated for future development. It is city so it is public owned and here it is ok to detect.
Iowa City you can hunt parks and other public areas. State Parks, read this:
http://www.iowadnr.gov/Recreation/CampingFacilityRentals/RulesRegulations/MetalDetectors.aspx
See ya out on the treasure hunts.
wilddigger that is the same page that I'm on.
It is a matter of law that 'governments' regardless of which must POST RESTRICTIONS OF USE publicly at the site. Failure to do so will negate penalty. In other words if the city owns a lot and does not post a no trespassing or no metal detecting or other such restrictions then you cant be fined or penalized for breaking any laws. They can only ask you to leave. Any attorney can tell you that. If you continue to go back to the property once warned you might have a problem depending on the judge and how good a lawyer you have. That will be $125 please.
Not public?
It would depend on what it is. What is it?
If the City uses the land to hold supplies ,equipment, plant trees, some type of unused land? Then you have to research the land history is it even worth your time.
Tom_in_CA has a very good example of this here:
Check this out:
http://beacon.schneidercorp.com/
Metal On
This is a example of City own "not parks" I would not step foot in here!
You may be familiar with this section to be located next to the Iowa River Power Company. If your not familiar you can search Google Maps for the Iowa River Power Company Iowa City, Iowa and zoom in to see for yourself what I am talking about.
You may be familiar with this section to be located next to the Iowa River Power Company. If your not familiar you can search Google Maps for the Iowa River Power Company Iowa City, Iowa and zoom in to see for yourself what I am talking about.
Attachments
ohiochris
Elite Member
Sometimes , if certain conditions are met , it actually can be better not to ask. But you have to be careful , if the right person comes along to make trouble there are usually little jewels they can use against you if they choose to. Here is an example from Ohio trespassing laws , there may or may not be similar ones in your respective state.
Ohio Trespassing Law
2911.21 Criminal trespass.
(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the
following:
(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard;
(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.
(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.
(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception.
(F) As used in this section:
(2) "Land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof.
Pay close attention to line 4 (B).........I tried to highlight it in red but apparently I dont know how.
Ohio Trespassing Law
2911.21 Criminal trespass.
(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the
following:
(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard;
(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.
(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.
(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception.
(F) As used in this section:
(2) "Land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof.
Pay close attention to line 4 (B).........I tried to highlight it in red but apparently I dont know how.
So, basically you can hunt, until you get caught, the first time is usually a 'freebie', but if you where careful, and 'ran silently' long enough, you probably were done with that piece of land, and ready to hit the one down the street a couple of blocks... Does the 'free-pass' only apply to an individual address, or would you get into the more serious, criminal trouble, if you get similar warnings throughout the city? City government, is a public agency, so you would be committing the same offense, against the same entity, just different locations. Think pushing the limits of the law, is the main reason why we get into so much trouble, and why it gets more clearly defined. If we want recognition as a serious, and harmless hobby, this isn't the best way to get attention, or a good way to get the rules changed, in our favor any way.
This is where we need to be careful to not go off the subject that youngnewiowan21 started. not public like parks
Because the question was asked we all can assume some confidence needs to be reassured.
It's safe to say everyone here is a good metal detector. We all fill our holes back in, try to stay out of others way, detect during low traffic times. And, if anyone is uncomfortable we are polite pack up and just leave.
Which brings up, this does not mean we have been giving the warning and our one time free pass is up. Just means you need to ask yourself what cause the lady across the street or the grounds keeper to feel uncomfortable with you? Learn from it. Let's hope they talked to you in person without calling for backup.
Really you did nothing wrong.
Now if someone with authority kicks your but out, this means you really may need to take a step back and understand what just happen. Sorry, you just did yourself no favors on this one. No fault of your own. If I was this person in this situation I would make sure the person with authority is okay with me being there. If not you best do as your told.
Maybe it was because you took the guys parking spot or the mom has kids playing she does not want strangers to be around, who knows? Someone called in a complaint.
Let's hope this does not happen but if it does its good to be prepared. Keep your maps and copy of rules with you. Do your research. Join a local metal detecting club and learn the sport form others that have been doing it for years. (That would not be me).
HH
http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-...llinfo&service=IowaCode&ga=83&input=716#716.7
This will come up so I will say it here. Just because a http://www.geocaching.com/ is placed on city, state or private property does not automatically mean you can metal detect. It is a tool to use however to show "as the two examples above highlight" where you should not even step foot.
Because the question was asked we all can assume some confidence needs to be reassured.
It's safe to say everyone here is a good metal detector. We all fill our holes back in, try to stay out of others way, detect during low traffic times. And, if anyone is uncomfortable we are polite pack up and just leave.
Which brings up, this does not mean we have been giving the warning and our one time free pass is up. Just means you need to ask yourself what cause the lady across the street or the grounds keeper to feel uncomfortable with you? Learn from it. Let's hope they talked to you in person without calling for backup.
Really you did nothing wrong.
Now if someone with authority kicks your but out, this means you really may need to take a step back and understand what just happen. Sorry, you just did yourself no favors on this one. No fault of your own. If I was this person in this situation I would make sure the person with authority is okay with me being there. If not you best do as your told.
Maybe it was because you took the guys parking spot or the mom has kids playing she does not want strangers to be around, who knows? Someone called in a complaint.
Let's hope this does not happen but if it does its good to be prepared. Keep your maps and copy of rules with you. Do your research. Join a local metal detecting club and learn the sport form others that have been doing it for years. (That would not be me).
HH
http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-...llinfo&service=IowaCode&ga=83&input=716#716.7
This will come up so I will say it here. Just because a http://www.geocaching.com/ is placed on city, state or private property does not automatically mean you can metal detect. It is a tool to use however to show "as the two examples above highlight" where you should not even step foot.
mountain digger
Elite Member
So, is MDing a harmless hobby, or in the alternative...is it a harmful hobby? Would probably think that most (but not all) who use metal detectors in public places in pursuit of their hobby actually think the hobby is not harmful, not destructive, non-defacing, etc. These are good people who adhere to a MD code of ethics. Just my opinion stated in a straightforward manner.
Rules, laws, and ordinances will be different from on city to the next. Sure, some simply copy from what other cities have done, saves time and money, researching and wording them just right. What works in one city, may not be the same in the next town over. Some areas are a little more relaxed and tolerant, some will follow the laws to the letter. It really is a 'grey' area, and there is really no way of know, other than asking, or trial-and-error. Public, means you have a vote, a voice in how the public land in your area is used. It doesn't give you a personal right to use at as you want. That right was given to those charged with managing and maintaining it. Do you volunteer your free time picking up trash (beyond the treasure we dig)? Do you mow the grass, trim the trees? Probably not, our tax dollars pay people to take care of those things.
No one here can really give an accurate advice on what is legal, or tolerated, in very town and city, mostly just the area we live and hunt in. Personally, I don't want the question hanging over me, just not much of a gambling man. I don't want to rely on what is tolerated, or what I can get away with. I just want to have a little fun hunting, not test the local laws.
No one here can really give an accurate advice on what is legal, or tolerated, in very town and city, mostly just the area we live and hunt in. Personally, I don't want the question hanging over me, just not much of a gambling man. I don't want to rely on what is tolerated, or what I can get away with. I just want to have a little fun hunting, not test the local laws.
