Think your sites are cleaned out (nonferrous) wise

tnsharpshooter

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Better think again.

I have been running a Nokta Impact detector and a Xp Deus version 4 lately.

Some folks here may have been reading,,where I mention my detector proving grounds.

A couple small sites,,loaded with nails and iron dating back to the 1700s.

These 2 sites do seem to paint a pretty good picture for me as far as how a detector unmask and separates when in and around ferrous materials.

So what is the why's behind these sites,,,and could these sites be like some others here in the good ole USA???

When it comes to detecting,,we don't know what we don't know,,,what is beneath our coils as we sweep. Sure sometime we get ideas because we successfully recover a target. But this only paints a very small portion of the true overall picture.

So are your sites cleaned out??
Remember there is no Vlf detector I know of that can tell (give ID/vdi) of a heavily masked target in ferrous materials. Now detectors,,some can give us clues by way of audio that a suspect nonferrous target actually exist when nestled in the ferrous materials.

Some detectors by engineering and design do do a better job here of alerting a detectorist of a nonferrous finds comingled with ferrous materials.

A little math here to suggest just how real,,and difficult it would be to say a site has been extinguished of nonferrous materials by way of detecting.

First let's assume we have Detector named X,,this baby is the holy grail when it comes to separation and unmasking.

Let's assume,,in order for this detector to unmask/separate in a site like I described above,,,,the center of the coil in order for a spot to be considered depleted of nonferrous has to come over just one square inch of ground above the nonferrous target in the site.

Note the following,,a parcel of land .05 acres or 2,178 square feet.
This equates to a parcel containing 313,632 square inches.

Now remember this excercise here not in a perfect sense,,but readers should get the idea.

Next,,what about approach to target,,this is important,,,as angular approach to a masked target is changed,,,a detector will have fewer and better chances of responding to a masked target.

Let's say there are in a perfect world (detecting) 8 different angles of approach.
So 8 times 313,632= a grand total of 2,509,056.

This is the total number of possibilities using the data we assume,,and using the parcel of land we used.
How long would it take to to actually place the coil on a detector to achieve all these 2,509,056 possibilities??

When you are out detecting,,think about this.

Detecting in old sites loaded with iron,,can be boring,,,tiring,,and also successful.
A 2,178 sq foot piece of land not that big either.

This little exercise here,,,I hope it puts things better into perspective for you.

The detectors that are genuinely the better separators and unmaskers,,,they do have their place.

The numbers above support.

And here is the BIGGY,,ever monitor how we as humans sweep metal detectors??
Not in a straight line,,right,,,more of an arc.
So,,this arc,,is it even consistent.
So more error,,with arc of sweep,,,as well as variations in distances of sweep, not to mention sweep speed variations.

Btw this 1 inch used in this example,,very conservative number,,,could be smaller like 1/2" square.

And to think if you do in fact answer the calling here covering all of these possibility using your detector. What happens when you get a better separating/unmasking detector,,,this would mean to be sure area is ideally depleted of nonferrous,,,you would have to hunt again,,and again answer all possibilities of coil position and angular approach.

I can relate very much to ALL of the above,,,very real here,,this is not fictional by no means.

What this post is talking about,,,we may see a detector manufacturer try and develop a means where a person could in fact know moreso if they have in fact covered a parcel of land,,,with some type of navigational electronic approach.
Some thing like Minelab CTX does but more exact/precise. Showing actual physical coil coverage,,and this coverage based off the center of coil,,with a circular radius factored in.

Sound far fetched ???
Be careful what you ask for.
 
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Hipocritical?

This from someone who finds a lone target where others have previously hunted and harps on his machines capibilitys ?
Hmmm
Talk about interesting!
 
Don't care

I've been reading these posts forever and detecting for more than 20 yrs!
I remember thing well and will let others think for themselves!
Read for yourselves!
I remember who hypes themselves/machines and won't never consider myself to be a expert at anything!
 
This from someone who finds a lone target where others have previously hunted and harps on his machines capibilitys ?
Hmmm
Talk about interesting!

I never base a machine's capability on just one find,,,rather trends.
If the trend keeps repeating,,,bears some weight at least.

I spend a lot of time,,with certain models detectors,,,and I really pay close attention while using them.

If you disagree with me,,fine.

I think in time,,,what I have said here and other places,,,,will be bore out with time.
 
So Trashman,
Here's what I want to see from you.

Create your own thread,,,and tell us all what we should be doing,,when testing,,using,,and talking about detectors.

You seem quick to criticize,,,so give us all some thing to read from you to criticize.

If what you post makes sense and I agree,,,I will actually say so,,and not criticize.

You up for it??

Gives us some thing to show us how knowledgeable you really are.
 
I won't post B/S to run up a forum post count or to hear myself talk!
I have commented on stuff to be helpful to others concerning stuff that I'm sure of-- not speculation!
Nor will I post my opinions of things as absolutes concerning a hobby were the possibilities are limitless!
Narrow minded thinking accomplishes nothing except upon ones self!
 
I won't post B/S to run up a forum post count or to hear myself talk!
I have commented on stuff to be helpful to others concerning stuff that I'm sure of-- not speculation!
Nor will I post my opinions of things as absolutes concerning a hobby were the possibilities are limitless!
Narrow minded thinking accomplishes nothing except upon ones self!

Your response don't surprise me,,,this is some thing I am sure of,,not speculation.

Btw,,since we can't see under the ground with our own eyes,,detecting as far as speculation goes,,,does come with the territory moreso, vs other endeavors.
 
My personal experience has been less detector and more being adjusted to fit the need is what counts. I can take my 20+ year old Whites DFX and when adjusted properly for the conditions will match up to any of the so called unmasking machines. Now the DFX's depth is nowhere near the ability of say the Racer 2 or Deus, but just as good on the more shallow stuff. And the really deep stuff the other machine get fooled by iron to the point it's a guessing game no matter what detector you use.
 
My personal experience has been less detector and more being adjusted to fit the need is what counts. I can take my 20+ year old Whites DFX and when adjusted properly for the conditions will match up to any of the so called unmasking machines. Now the DFX's depth is nowhere near the ability of say the Racer 2 or Deus, but just as good on the more shallow stuff. And the really deep stuff the other machine get fooled by iron to the point it's a guessing game no matter what detector you use.

Well,,,you need to read what I have posted here on Deus V4.

Based on what Inhave witnessed using V4 so far,,,Deus V3.2,,,just won't see or alert user to some targets,,,9" coil to 9" coil.

So some thing has changed with V4,,,I have already proved this,,at least in my mind.

So even Deus can beat a Deus here.
Think about this.
So Deus,,from saying could likely beat another detector,,right??

A lot of these targets found with V4,,,3-5" deep,,a few a couple inches.
And a few at 8-9" deep.
Jaw dropping for me to see this.

Any old site,,V4 needs to be taken and rehunted where version 3.2 Deus has been previously,,,especially if 3.2 version made at least a few worthy finds.

Actually what I have witnessed from using V4,,, one of the reasons for this thread to begin with.
 
Now,,,after reading the first post here.
What can be said.

Here is where using the different better separators/unmaskers come into play.

Using one such detector,,,will be able on average to find a nonferrous without having subjected the coil to all the possible combinations.

An example,,,if we even say designed a site purposely for testing/comparing,,we would notice,,,some detectors even by just sweeping the 2178 sq ft site from one direction,,,would make some finds,,,where other detectors would take more hunts,,so more angular attacks could be accomplished,,,to make similar finds.

But,,,no matter which detector,,no matter how good at separating or unmasking ,,the example I first posted,,,this is the one-- that moreso exemplifies what will be witnessed in the field.

Now,,,remember not every square inch the center of the coil passes over,,,will a find be found,,,but one of these square inches,,,may indeed be packing a target,,,heavily crippled,,,and having to approach this target from many angles may be necessary to locate,,and recognize via audio,,,that it does exist.

Everyone swinging a coil,,,is walking by nonferrous in sites like this,,,even me.

Think about this,,,in a same plane test using a coin and 16 penny nail,,,what if a user gets something tonally while changing angular approach of coil,,,like if they see a 5 degree advantage using one detector vs another detector.
Don't sound like much does it??

Actually this is huge,,and when in the field this advantage will be duly noted while detecting.

Yes it will depend on the sites hunted,,,but will show itself with time.
 
This has been around since the 70's. I well remember folks like Karl Con Mueller saying it would sometimes take hours to scan a small
Search area.
 
This has been around since the 70's. I well remember folks like Karl Con Mueller saying it would sometimes take hours to scan a small
Search area.

I am sure it has.

The biggest thing here,,folks need to understand,,,for instance a 9" coil on Xp Deus detector is a fine separator and unmasker,,it didn't exist in the 1970s either.

But what folks have even if they have a Deus,,with 9" coil is a mirage.
What am I talking about???
As good as the Deus is,,,some highly mask targets,,the Deus coil has to be perfecto,,in both position and direction of sweep and coil height.
The almost exact center or the actual center of coil must pass over the target to get any intelligent audio exposing a nonferrous target.

When we swing our coils,,we usually can't see the actual center of coil,,,where exactly is it covering as far as exact spots on the ground,,,so we as detectorists are in the blind a whole lot here.

In hard hunted sites,,,usually what is left nonferrous wise,,,has some thing wrong with it,,it will likely not be a textbook signal,,and will take above average coil position and direction to ascertain.

Even for example,,a little spot of grass sitting just a smidge higher,,where a person would likely raise their coil a little more moreso,,this small addition coil height,,might just make the difference of a no go with signal in passing coil over.

Now some folks may read all this and say,,I don't sweat the small stuff,,and they can keep going to different sites and continue to make finds,,and if this suits them,,great.

But some folks may be site restricted,,or want to purse maybe some of their sites they have they think hunted hard,,or know of a site someone else has hunted a great deal and would like to try.
Some of these sites,, may have produced some mighty nice finds over the years.

To add here,,this forum has a large membership,,with varying levels of experience and equipment used.

It is a myth if anyone says a small coil is always better (meaning will see all things better) in very polluted sites of nails and iron. A stock sized coil can at times see nonferrous items,,the same detector with a smaller coil won't see.

But we can also say the thing,,vice versa,,,a small coil can see some things better than a bigger coil.

There will be even instances,,where neither a stock sized coil or a smaller coil will see,,,but a mid sized coil will see and this using the same detector.

And these differences here noted with coil size use,,,can be related to depth of target,,but can apply to even shallower targets as well.
 
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I've been reading these posts forever and detecting for more than 20 yrs!
I remember thing well and will let others think for themselves!
Read for yourselves!
I remember who hypes themselves/machines and won't never consider myself to be a expert at anything!

Maybe share your wisdom? Maybe? I'm sure you have learned something after "20 years" in this hobby.:D
 
I won't post B/S to run up a forum post count or to hear myself talk!
I have commented on stuff to be helpful to others concerning stuff that I'm sure of-- not speculation!
Nor will I post my opinions of things as absolutes concerning a hobby were the possibilities are limitless!
Narrow minded thinking accomplishes nothing except upon ones self!

So when your detecty thing goes beep. you are certain what caused it? Or is it just speculation?
 
It sure seems to be the social accepted approach, to jump in to someone else's business, throw out criticism, not back it up, and take off. If someone is doing better than yourself and attempting to enrich others, they just can't stand it.

I, for one, appreciate tnsharpshooter's threads. The man takes the time to put into text his observations, AND is open to criticism, provided you explain yourself (too much to ask sometimes apparently).

I hunt with tnsharpshooter as often as I can, so I know him fairly well.
 
It sure seems to be the social accepted approach, to jump in to someone else's business, throw out criticism, not back it up, and take off. If someone is doing better than yourself and attempting to enrich others, they just can't stand it.

I, for one, appreciate tnsharpshooter's threads. The man takes the time to put into text his observations, AND is open to criticism, provided you explain yourself (too much to ask sometimes apparently).

I hunt with tnsharpshooter as often as I can, so I know him fairly well.

Seconded.
 
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