Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Garrett sitting around doing what?

maxxkatt

maxxkatt

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Ok, first off this is NOT a thread about which make or model of a detector is better than another one. This starts to many verbal jousting matches.

It is a business and marketing question: Why Garrett is not responding with new detectors to counter the Equinox, Vanquish and Simplex+ which are threatening the heart of the lower to mid range of their detectors, ie ACE and AT series?

It does not seem logical to not be doing anything unless they really have some outstanding detectors in their RD pipeline.

But for the near future they are letting a sizable number of detectorists get established with the above mentioned new machines and out of the market for a new machine for a few years.
 
They likely don’t HAVE anything to counter with...there’s only so many times you can re-hash an ATPro and call it this or that. While it’s popular and has done many well, it’s out of date for today’s most difficult hunting conditions. It doesn’t appear that they’re ready to unveil anything earth shattering anytime soon, simply because the advancements that can be made have been made.
Whoever puts together an affordable hi res imager that will distinguish a coin from the ground matrix at 15” will be king. Don’t hold your breath...
 
I would ask the same thing about Whites. They were at one time the biggest USA manufactured detector companies. Other than the MX Sport I really have not seen anything exciting come from them (actually I think the MX Sport was not really that good of a unit) The overseas manufactures are the ones with their finger on the pulse of the metal detecting community, as for the USA guys, you cannot just live off a name without something to stir up a bit of excitement.
 
This isn't the 1970s, '80s and '90s. During those years, there was routine "upping of the anties" with detector manufacturers. Heck, if you had a detector that was a mere 5 yrs. old in those decades, you had a dinosaur .

In the last decade or two, it's only become "whistles and bells". There are machines now that are 10 or 20 yr. old technology, that are every-bit as competitive as today's current crop. This timeline was UNHEARD of back in the 1970s/80s/90s. That was when things moved from BFO, to VLF, to disc. VLF, to TID, to slowed to VLF disc. blah blah blah blah. It was never ending and exciting.

Notice that's not the case today. And it's NOT because various manufacturers (Garrett, for example, like you ask) are asleep at the wheel . It's because of the simple fact of: The laws of physics. There's only so much signal you can pump into the ground. And there's only so much information you can glean from that signal return. And NO AMOUNT OF SMALLER AND FASTER (ie.: computer revolution/speed) will change the laws-of-physics.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
This isn't the 1970s, '80s and '90s. During those years, there was routine "upping of the anties" with detector manufacturers. Heck, if you had a detector that was a mere 5 yrs. old in those decades, you had a dinosaur .

In the last decade or two, it's only become "whistles and bells". There are machines now that are 10 or 20 yr. old technology, that are every-bit as competitive as today's current crop. This timeline was UNHEARD of back in the 1970s/80s/90s. That was when things moved from BFO, to VLF, to disc. VLF, to TID, to slowed to VLF disc. blah blah blah blah. It was never ending and exciting.

Notice that's not the case today. And it's NOT because various manufacturers (Garrett, for example, like you ask) are asleep at the wheel . It's because of the simple fact of: The laws of physics. There's only so much signal you can pump into the ground. And there's only so much information you can glean from that signal return. And NO AMOUNT OF SMALLER AND FASTER (ie.: computer revolution/speed) will change the laws-of-physics.
Click to expand...

My personal situation makes me tend to agree with Tom. I have over the past month thought seriously of selling my Nox 800. It has a lot of whistles and bells. I am looking at something that is simpler and easy to use.

What started those thoughts? I borrowed my son's Ace 250 and hunted my trashy park. I was quite surprised at its ability to find coins and ID them correctly under their symbols. It was actually a pleasant hunt compared to the 800 where a lot of clad gets jammed up in the narrow TID range of 40.

I have decided to keep the Nox 800 but order the Simplex+ and give it a try $254 for just the detector without the headphones. I hope I can get my Miccus SR-71's to pair up with the Simplex+.

Some early users reports in the field mode the Simplex+ punches fairly deep at 12Khz.
 
maxxkatt said:
My personal situation makes me tend to agree with Tom. I have over the past month thought seriously of selling my Nox 800. It has a lot of whistles and bells. I am looking at something that is simpler and easy to use.



What started those thoughts? I borrowed my son's Ace 250 and hunted my trashy park. I was quite surprised at its ability to find coins and ID them correctly under their symbols. It was actually a pleasant hunt compared to the 800 where a lot of clad gets jammed up in the narrow TID range of 40.



I have decided to keep the Nox 800 but order the Simplex+ and give it a try $254 for just the detector without the headphones. I hope I can get my Miccus SR-71's to pair up with the Simplex+.



Some early users reports in the field mode the Simplex+ punches fairly deep at 12Khz.
Click to expand...



I agree with your thoughts around the 800 and how impressive the simplex will be in that price range. I had an Anfibio and I still will say it probably would it could out perform the 800 but just not the same hype as the minelab. Now at 500 dollars less this simplex will be something to watch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
How many threads are you going to start trashing Garrett and expounding on the virtues of Minelab? Give it a rest, dude.
 
I'm thinking Garrett is still reaping the financial benefits of the At Pro, and probably doesn't see a need to get in the rat race
Like Ricky Bobby said, if you ain't first your last.lol
 
AIRFORCEMIKE said:
I agree with your thoughts around the 800 and how impressive the simplex will be in that price range. I had an Anfibio and I still will say it probably would it could out perform the 800 but just not the same hype as the minelab. Now at 500 dollars less this simplex will be something to watch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Actually $254 for Simplex+ without the head phones $339 with the wireless headphones.

Will be buying one for a backup and to keep in car for those spur of the moment hunts. But keeping my 800, way too much learning curve time invested in the 800.

Yeah, if we ask the question about which is the most hyped detector, the Equinox would win that poll hands down. Darn good detector, but won't make every other detector obsolete.
 
FreeBirdTim said:
How many threads are you going to start trashing Garrett and expounding on the virtues of Minelab? Give it a rest, dude.
Click to expand...

Hi Free,

I owned an AT pro for 3 years, and one other garrett detectors and loved them all and including a fisher gold bug back in 1987.

The question is just my wondering what Garrett is or is not up to in relation to the technology of metal detectors moving forward.

I wish garrett would come out with one that would out perform the 800 or the XP Deus.

I have absolutely no grudges at all against garrett or garrett users. If fact I complain more about the 800 than the AT Pro. The only complaint about the AT Pro I have ever made on this forum or other forums is the crappy cable connector that is very time consuming to line up, lest you hurry and bend a pin which I have done before.

I personally think garrett makes more profits off of their industrial products than their hobby division and this is where their focus in located in terms of R&D and marketing.

I dislike the 40 segment TID of the 800 and loved the 99 on the AT Pro. That is why my second machine will be the Simplex due to it having a 99 Segment VDI instead of the Vanquish (when it arrives) with the 40 TID.
 
Regarding Garrett...After the amazing success of the AtPro series....All they would have to do is make some coils with a much longer coil wire so a guy could hip or chest mount the brain box....Maybe 2' or so longer than stock... Thats it...

Thank you Garrett!!...You may send the "My Idea" royalties to Mud-Puppy Enterprises...:laughing:

In fact, NEL could easily do this! Especially with those Thunder coils! I'd pay a $50 premium for a longer coil cable! Just make that cable 2' longer! The AtPro is a real gold slammer, but not ergo at all, not with that brainbox screwed to the shaft..:?:
 
Mud-puppy said:
Regarding Garrett...After the amazing success of the AtPro series....All they would have to do is make some coils with a much longer coil wire so a guy could hip or chest mount the brain box....Maybe 2' or so longer than stock... Thats it...

Thank you Garrett!!...You may send the "My Idea" royalties to Mud-Puppy Enterprises...:laughing:

In fact, NEL could easily do this! Especially with those Thunder coils! I'd pay a $50 premium for a longer coil cable! Just make that cable 2' longer! The AtPro is a real gold slammer, but not ergo at all, not with that brainbox screwed to the shaft..:?:
Click to expand...

Lol, you'll be rolling in dough in no time:laughing:
Great thought though Mud, the at pro does take a toll on the wrist after a few hours.
 
maxxkatt said:
My personal situation makes me tend to agree with Tom. I have over the past month thought seriously of selling my Nox 800. It has a lot of whistles and bells. I am looking at something that is simpler and easy to use.

What started those thoughts? I borrowed my son's Ace 250 and hunted my trashy park. I was quite surprised at its ability to find coins and ID them correctly under their symbols. It was actually a pleasant hunt compared to the 800 where a lot of clad gets jammed up in the narrow TID range of 40.

I have decided to keep the Nox 800 but order the Simplex+ and give it a try $254 for just the detector without the headphones. I hope I can get my Miccus SR-71's to pair up with the Simplex+.

Some early users reports in the field mode the Simplex+ punches fairly deep at 12Khz.
Click to expand...

Right! people get so caught up in the "I need the best" syndrome that they feel anything less than that is unusable. Not true! I hunted with a Fisher F2 for many years and loooooved the thing. I had dreams of the Fisher F5, and didn’t stop until I finally got one. mmmmmm, knobs! More options! Costs more so must be better, right? jury is still out on that one. often times I miss the simplicity of my neat F2.

And, as woodbutcher said, I'm sure Garrett isn’t hurting from the sales of the AT Pro, and their pinpointer, so why fix what ain't broken?
 
choppadude said:
I would ask the same thing about Whites.
Click to expand...

And I would ask the same thing about First Texas/Fisher/Teknetics. I have had a Fisher F2 and now own a Fisher F75. I really like the machine and recently broke it and the service from First Texas was FANTASTIC. I would love for my next detector to be from them but they don't seem to be putting out anything new. I don't understand why Fisher, Garrett and Whites don't have new machines to be competitive with all these recent machines.
 
maxxkatt said:
I dislike the 40 segment TID of the 800 and loved the 99 on the AT Pro. That is why my second machine will be the Simplex due to it having a 99 Segment VDI instead of the Vanquish (when it arrives) with the 40 TID.
Click to expand...

If you're going to say the AT Pro has 99 segments then you have to say the Nox has 50...not 40. (The scale starts at -9.) So, you'd think that the compression is 2 to 1, but it isn't.

I scanned a foil gum wrapper and got a 1 on the Nox, as expected. That's 11 segments from the bottom since the scale starts at -9. If it was a 1 to 2 compression compared to the AT Pro, then the AT Pro is going to give a 22, right? Any AT Pro user should know it's going to read at 39-40. That's not 2 to 1....it's nearly 4 to 1. Minelab compressed the ferrous/iron range more than the non-ferrous range.

Do you need 40 segments for iron and low foil? I don't. 10 or so works for me.

That means the non-ferrous comparison is 40 segments for the Nox and 60 for the AT Pro. That's a 1 for 1.5 compression. That's also assuming the compression is an even 1.5 all the way across those 40 segments. It's possible the folks at Minelab compressed or expanded certain signals (compared to the AT Pro) within the 40 segments some more than others. Then, there are way more notching/audio/volume options with the 40 segments on the Nox than the 60 on the AT Pro.
 
Muddpuppy has a great idea, the Atp needs to be balanced.
Garrett has a great detector, the Atp. I love it!
Sure Minelab is better with multi IQ but like some have said physics can only go so far.
Nokta churns out a new machine almost every minute:lol:. I suppose one could sell many machines from this?
 
IDXMonster said:
They likely don’t HAVE anything to counter with...there’s only so many times you can re-hash an ATPro and call it this or that. While it’s popular and has done many well, it’s out of date for today’s most difficult hunting conditions. It doesn’t appear that they’re ready to unveil anything earth shattering anytime soon, simply because the advancements that can be made have been made.
Whoever puts together an affordable hi res imager that will distinguish a coin from the ground matrix at 15” will be king. Don’t hold your breath...
Click to expand...

manufacturers have to be careful with "patent" infringement too!
duplicating performance WITHOUT circumventing a patent can be cost prohibitive.

(h.h.!)
j.t.
 
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