Anybody out there trained in sigillography?

BuscaPlata · Sep 25, 2018

Sigillography (the science and study of seals)

Found this lead Bale Seal a couple weeks ago and was wondering if anybody has an idea how old it is. The design is fairly clear but can't make out the image.

joe dert · Sep 25, 2018

I don't know anything other than I've never found a lead seal so ornate..it's like a coin..that's neat...

waltr · Sep 26, 2018

The seal is nearly upside down in the photo.

Can read "SON & CO: NEW YORK"

Too bad the name before 'SON' is missing.

Also can not figure out what the image in the center is.

Nice seal however.

HuntinDog · Sep 26, 2018

That's an awesome seal.
Hope you can find some info...

BuscaPlata · Sep 27, 2018

joe dert said:
I don't know anything other than I've never found a lead seal so ornate..it's like a coin..that's neat...

This is my first and had no idea what it was till Michdig enlightened me.

waltr said:
The seal is nearly upside down in the photo.

Can read "SON & CO: NEW YORK"

Too bad the name before 'SON' is missing.

Also can not figure out what the image in the center is.

Nice seal however.

Thanks waltr, yea interesting image, wish I could tell what it is.

HuntinDog said:
That's an awesome seal.
Hope you can find some info...

Thanks HD

Cfmct · Sep 27, 2018

Try googling help identifying vintage lead seals.. I did and found this link.

https://colchestertreasurehunting.com/bale-seals/

More on this page from my search

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=...www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/baleseals

BuscaPlata · Sep 28, 2018

Cfmct said:
Try googling help identifying vintage lead seals.. I did and found this link.

https://colchestertreasurehunting.com/bale-seals/

More on this page from my search

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=...www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/baleseals

Thank you, I'll give it a search

jimther · Sep 28, 2018

The Colchester site will feature seal finds from England, I believe, so New York company seals will likely not be found there. I gave a handful of seals given to me by a detecting friend here near Boston who has found seals locally and in England on his many trips there. I’ll take a peek at them to see if any are the same as yours.
Jim

Mikey48 · Sep 28, 2018

The First Letter of the name is a "P" so it narrows it down for you to 1/26th of the alphabet.

"P____son and Co." The center appears to be some kind of bird to me, but that is only an impression. Could be any animal I guess? You might show added detail on the seal by sidelighting it in a photo and posting that as well. Good Luck. Neat Find.

Franz · Sep 28, 2018

That's what i saw too, a bird of prey with a fish. At least I think it's a fish - the tail being cut off from the image makes me think I might be imagining a fish though.

BuscaPlata · Sep 28, 2018

jimther said:
The Colchester site will feature seal finds from England, I believe, so New York company seals will likely not be found there. I gave a handful of seals given to me by a detecting friend here near Boston who has found seals locally and in England on his many trips there. I’ll take a peek at them to see if any are the same as yours.
Jim

Thanks Jim, I took a closer look at it and can make out in small letters RADE right at the very top, which more than likely reads TRADE and at the bottom just above YORK there is a REG. on it

BuscaPlata · Sep 28, 2018

Mikey48 said:
The First Letter of the name is a "P" so it narrows it down for you to 1/26th of the alphabet. "P____son and Co." The center appears to be some kind of bird to me, but that is only an impression. Could be any animal I guess? You might show added detail on the seal by sidelighting it in a photo and posting that as well. Good Luck. Neat Find.

Thanks mikey, I can make out a E right after the P. here's a couple more pics
that a bit more detail

BuscaPlata · Sep 28, 2018

Franz said:
That's what i saw too, a bird of prey with a fish. At least I think it's a fish - the tail being cut off from the image makes me think I might be imagining a fish though.

Thanks Franz, I can't make heads or tails on this one no matter which way I look at it.

joe dert · Sep 28, 2018

Franz said:
That's what i saw too, a bird of prey with a fish. At least I think it's a fish - the tail being cut off from the image makes me think I might be imagining a fish though.

Ok.. maybe I'm not crazy..or we both are.. I see the same thing

Mikey48 · Sep 28, 2018

It is a real puzzle. There is pretty good detail there, but it doesn't look like
anything I can recognize.

I believe it says "trade" at the top of the second image above the unknown logo material at the center.

BuscaPlata · Sep 28, 2018

Mikey48 said:
It is a real puzzle. There is pretty good detail there, but it doesn't look like
anything I can recognize.

I believe it says "trade" at the top of the second image above the unknown logo material at the center.

It does say RADE just missing the T and just above the YORK I see REG.

jimther · Sep 28, 2018

Pretty sure that’s a bird, maybe an eagle. Not sure about the fish though but bald eagles are fish eaters. The word trade appears in the inner circle, with the bird. Definitely better details in the later photos. Good job with that. Still want to take a look at the handful of seals I was given a few months ago, though this one doesn’t ring a bell.
Jim

jimther · Sep 28, 2018

Checked my seals - No match

I just looked thru the bag of more than 60 lead baling seals and found nothing close to the one you've posted here. I had a few duplicates and a good diversity of sizes and embossings. I've included a few photos; one showing the whole group, then 6 closer up photos of different sections of the group, just in case readers were interested in the kind of variety that might be found out there.

Jim

HannibalNectar · Sep 29, 2018

Looks like it says "traders" And a bird with a rope in its mouth

BuscaPlata · Sep 30, 2018

jimther said:
I just looked thru the bag of more than 60 lead baling seals and found nothing close to the one you've posted here. I had a few duplicates and a good diversity of sizes and embossings. I've included a few photos; one showing the whole group, then 6 closer up photos of different sections of the group, just in case readers were interested in the kind of variety that might be found out there.

Jim

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. That is a lot of seals.

Anybody out there trained in sigillography?

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