ToySoldier
Forum Supporter
I think my kids were around 4 when they learned two wrongs don't make a right.
Places i've hunted without permission
- Thread starter pplinker
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I think my kids were around 4 when they learned two wrongs don't make a right.
Bill_Ace_350
Elite Member
I agree, but in this case it might fall into the "if it is good for the goose, then it is good for the gander" concept when it comes to public property.
Tom_in_CA
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Toy-soldier, the big-ticket word in this post (to make-or-break the discussion), is : "Wrongs".
I think that homeless people erecting their tents on blighted district vacant lots is "wrong". But I fail to see how a person md'ing those same lots is to be compared with that level of "wrong".
I see md'ing as innocuous, harmless, benign, beneficial, educational, nutritious, etc.... I do not see it as "wrong". But: Setting up camping tents , and bringing in your shopping carts and litter, yes, .... I see that as "wrong".
It's almost as if we're talking about "spitting on sidewalks" type laws.
FliesOnly
Senior Member
So apparently you do think it's OK to detect on private property without permission, and keep what you find, since that is seemingly less of a crime than being homeless and setting up a camp. If that's the case, then why did you bother to respond earlier, telling me about "context"?
Tom_in_CA
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If it is in the context of places where "homeless people set up camps", then ..... yes .... I consider md'ing and keeping things I find, to be ok.
But no ..... not to be construed as applying to something like someone's front yard, or "hopping fences", etc.....
relichead
Banned
In alot of cases permisssion is best not asked...and night hunting is more productive too..cant figure out why..but if im in this hobby..im gonna do anything i can to find good stuff.....so crucify me!
FliesOnly
Senior Member
What about just an empty lot?
What about a seemingly deserted area that is posted, or maybe a large piece of property that is not necessarily totally "utilized" (i.e a large piece of property with a few buildings, but also a lot of unused/unoccupied space)? Say...for example...a hunt club?
Tom_in_CA
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What is the point of the Q's ? Anywhere a person could (even in your own opinion) walk around unbothered and ignored, is places I would likewise detect. Since I consider md'ing to be equally an innocuous and benign and birdwatching, photography, hiking, etc....
If it's "posted", as you say, then gee, I guess that's not a place you'd "walk around " at. But then .... even the term "posted" is a loaded term. Because I'll bet that some of the places that homeless people set up their tent cities at, are "posted".
So your questions are ones that the answers depend on individual "feels".
N2990
Elite Member
Underrated comment IMO
FliesOnly
Senior Member
To see if you'll ever admit that doing so would be considered as trespassing and theft.
Birdwatchers don't kill the birds and take them home with them. Photography doesn't result in the object disappearing into the photographers camera, you understand this, yes? Hikers don't steal the stuff they saw while out hiking.
But in another thread, you admitted that you would do that very thing.
Bwa ha ha ha ha. No, it's not a "loaded term".
I'm not asking you about homeless people and the "camps" they erect. I'm asking if you would knowingly trespass onto private property (posted or otherwise) and remove objects that you have found.
By "feels", I assume you mean whether or not someone is willing to knowingly break the law, yes?
Tom_in_CA
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Ok, sure. Let's focus on the word "theft": And so-too would you fall into the same category, on any speck of public land, the minute you metal detect at anywhere, where-so-ever.
But you're right: I do not focus on the word "trespass", because the moment you or I (or the homeless dude setting up his tent) steps off the sidewalk, then sure, we've "trespassed". Ok, shame on me. Ok ?
Correct. If we define md'ing as "destruction and taking things", then sure: Everything you're saying does indeed logically follow.
If by that you mean things like jay-walk and/or spit-of-sidewalk type laws, then: Yes.
diggin4clad
Elite Member
The debate continues...…….
FliesOnly
Senior Member
Where do you come up with this nonsense? Seriously...this is just complete and utter nonsense.
Do you seriously NOT see a difference between stepping off of a sidewalk and momentarily trespassing, vesus stepping off of a sidewalk with a metal detector. Using it. Getting a "hit". Digging up the "hit". Replacing the soil perfectly (cuz we know you're perfect at replacing you plugs...they're all but invisible). Walking off with the item you uncovered. You see those as equivalent?
As a reminder...birdwatchers do not remove the birds they watched. Photographers do not remove the objects they photographed. Hikers do not remove the trails and trees and mountains and flowers they saw while hiking.
I never said anything about "destruction". I will say this, however, you do remove objects that you have found. That's no where near the same as bird watching, photography, or hiking.
If taken in context, then I think you know that "No", I'm not talking about those types of laws. I'm talking about trespassing and theft of property. I though context was important to you? You tried to call me out on it in a earlier post, so maybe practice what you preach.
I'm simply asking you if you think it's ok to trespass, metal detect, and remove objects from a location where you do not have permission. Yet, even after numerous posts (in this thread and others), you have still never actually answered the question. It's a simple "yes" or "no" question...there's really no need for your typical verbosity and convoluted word vomit.
Tom_in_CA
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What "nonsense" ? You mean the use of the word "theft" to apply to the action-of-md'rs ? I'll tell you where I came up with that "nonsense": From a fellow named "FliesOnly" on FMDF. Who uses that exact characterization when describing the action of md'ing. Ok. Now do you know where I come up with that "nonsense" ? It's from your exact definitions. Ok, is that cleared up now ?
Using your definitions, ... yes ... I totally get it. You agree that stepping off sidewalks for purposes of birdwatching, photography, whistling dixie, etc... is ok. Because yes, we both agree that no one cares.
But , on your view, md'ing is outside of that pale of "innocuous and benign". Md'ing is apparently obnoxious, damaging, egregious, disdainful, theft, etc.... In which case, you'd be exactly right. So as you can see, it all boils down to how you define md'ing.
If we go with your definition, then sure, you're right.
I don't think the issue is "trespass" here, right ? Because, for example, you seem to say it's ok to-do-so for birdwatching and photo purposes. Right ? So the issue is not "trespass". The issue is the activity that one engages in. Right ?
CarsonChris
Elite Member
Cool thing, bird watchers and metal detectors don’t kill birds!
FliesOnly
Senior Member
So instead of answering a simple question, all you provide is more word vomit and more lies about what I have said. It’s a simple question…why can’t you just answer it? I’ll try again.
Do you think it's ok to trespass, metal detect, and remove objects from a location where you do not have permission?
The issue is this:
Do you think it's ok to trespass, metal detect, and remove objects from a location where you do not have permission?
Maybe address that question in your next post, rather than making up more horse poop.
Do you think it's ok to trespass, metal detect, and remove objects from a location where you do not have permission?
Are you completely incapable of telling the truth? Show me where I said that md’ing is theft?
Still more lies. Show me where I said that “exact definition”.Ok. Now do you know where I come up with that "nonsense" ? It's from your exact definitions. Ok, is that cleared up now ?
I never said it was OK. Does making up stuff just come naturally to you, or do you have to put some effort into saying things about me that are completely untrue?
That’s not my view. At all. I’ve never said that about md’ing.
I’ve never defined md’ing.
I suppose I really don’t need to tell which part of my anatomy you can kiss.
Man, you are a piece of work.
The issue is this:
Do you think it's ok to trespass, metal detect, and remove objects from a location where you do not have permission?
Maybe address that question in your next post, rather than making up more horse poop.
CarsonChris
Elite Member
If there is vacant property, no signs, other people are using it, I will detect it.
FliesOnly
Senior Member
That's not really the issue [I'm trying to get at] though. If you know it's private property (posted or otherwise), would you take items from that location?
diggin4clad
Elite Member
Richie, I have to disagree with you somewhat. If those "NY bureaucratic authoritarians" have a perceived need for control it's quite possible that they'll tell you NO sooner or later in order to feed their need for control. Feeding their ego is just what we don't need. If you "just go and detect" in a professional manner....mainly filling your holes and taking out trash you dug, how would it end badly and give the hobby a black eye? It's quite possible that it would show the hobby in a brighter light. There's no need to "gain access" to a tot lot where access is already allowed.
RichieSoprano
Senior Member
The NY was an autocorrect flub up.Other than that, what I am implying is that an employee of a governmental agency might ask themselves, "it is awfully presumptuous for them to be doing that digging." Of course they might be very wrong...but why not SHOW the proper attitude and not only gain entry but also for them to say...wow those folks really dot their "i's" and that's what I want them to feel after dealing with me...and that trash I find is gonna be gone. I only know that this choice I have made has gotten me a TON of permissions....so I am gonna keep doing what works. Ads far as NY politicians are concerned....you could ask Fredo for that info...(tee hee). LOL
