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  #21  
Old 06-29-2020, 10:48 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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To a good trained ear 50 tones using EQX can have advantages.
Folks may find this thread interesting.
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/di...959#msg-172959

There is another thread I believe talks about advantages of using 50 tones.
Iíll see if I can find it.

Here it is.
Basically if you use 2 tones or 5 tones you are basically hamstringing the detector to what it could provide audio wise on some detecting scenarios.
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/di...774#msg-172774

PS
Mr Dankowski was in on EQX engineering before release. Actually it was he who was responsible for its delay in releasing. Think it had to do with iron bias. Something he discovered to increase the detectors capability somewhat.
He has alluded to this in the last.
What I am saying he is very familiar with the platform.
He is restricted though to what he can say.
So his comments have been limited some what.

The EQX is talking when in 50 tones. There is a reason to what you hear tone wise. Meaning coil is passing over scenario and the fast Nox is examining and giving user feedback.
Coin on edge experiment will show folks.
Try a Deus on a coin on edge even using full tones.
Not the same as the Nox.
No warble.

Here is a test I just did.
Using EQX 800 stock coil.
Comparing 5 tone s to 50 tones using multi freq.
Using 50 tones I get a clue of mixed conductivity of the penny and cut piece of pie pan.
Using 5 tones I get no tonal intelligence to tell me possibly 2 targets with mixed conductivity exists.
In modern trash better be using 50 tones.
Now if I slow coil sweep to snail pace 5 tones ďat timesĒ give clue of mixed conductivity.
So using 5 tones one really canít set a tone break to answer all mixed conductivity detected scenarios to alert user. Using 50 tones the detector has better chance of reporting. Granted some averaging is happening ID wise still yet tone behavior (the music) can expose.

Moral of the story.
Give the Nox as many baskets as possible to put things.
It can do.
Just listen and you may be rewarded.
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  #22  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:43 PM
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I've put in over 150 hours on my Nox and I still don't understand the difference between 5 and 50 tones, and I know I'm not the only one.

Does 50 tones literally mean that there is an individual tone, with a different decibel, for each of the target ID's? So if the signal is 17-18, you'll get 2 different sounds, and if the signal is a 14-17, you'll get 3 different sounds?

I run 50 tones on my Nox, but I don't go by tones. It's a shame. I admire the old school detectorists who went only by ear.

What's the point if you can just look at the ID screen?

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  #23  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:47 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by beachclad View post
I've put in over 150 hours on my Nox and I still don't understand the difference between 5 and 50 tones, and I know I'm not the only one.

Does 50 tones literally mean that there is an individual tone, with a different decibel, for each of the target ID's? So if the signal is 17-18, you'll get 2 different sounds, and if the signal is a 14-17, you'll get 3 different sounds?

I run 50 tones on my Nox, but I don't go by tones. It's a shame. I admire the old school detectorists who went only by ear.

What's the point if you can just look at the ID screen?
Try a similar experiment as I showed here. If you are only looking at the meter to make dig decisions you likely are passing on some good stuff.
The tones on the Nox using 50 tones out perform the ID.
In my experiment above Nox was not giving penny ID. Yet I could hear a higher pitch sneaking in when I swung over using 50 tones. I could hear a lower tone behind the higher tone as coil passed over portion of aluminum cut pie plate afte the coil passed over the penny.
Same coil sweep speed using 5 tones (all other settings the same) I hear nothing to tell me mixed conductivity scenario exist. And a 14 in the window for ID. Who digs 14s and expects to find a zincoln penny? If they dig based on ID.

So yes you can go to a site with modern trash. If all the folks there are using multi freq and 5 tomes or 2 tones, you stand a chance to find something they walked right by. And they could have even heard the target. They walked because they didnít hear anything to alert them. They thought it was trash.
Possible to dig a nice low conductor too, like a gold ring or nickel, gold coin, by incidental digging. You hear the mixed conductivity being reported since you aren using 50 tones. And it turns out a clad dime may be being averaged ID wise with a gold ring.
Lot of the no brainer targets (purely textbook) are gone in public sites. So go for the gusto and start paying the odds based on what Nox tells you tonally.

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  #24  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Try a similar experiment as I showed here. If you are only looking at the meter to make dig decisions you likely are passing on some good stuff.
The tones on the Nox using 50 tones out perform the ID.
In my experiment above Nox was not giving penny ID. Yet I could hear a higher pitch sneaking in when I swung over using 50 tones. I could hear a lower tone behind the higher tone as coil passed over portion of aluminum cut pie plate afte the coil passed over the penny.
I have a horrible ear for audible details. My taste in music is nearly as bad. Maybe that's why.

The only sound I can recognize is the bottle cap's distorted warble. I usually don't dig those. Occasionally I'll run across a low tone in the foil range that is deeper than usual. I notice the difference and wonder what it is and then I dig it. It's usually one of those paper thin bottle seals. I guess because they're circular, the detector is louder. Small bits of metal in the same range sound off with a much more faint tone.

Everything else sounds the same.

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  #25  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:06 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by beachclad View post
I have a horrible ear for audible details. My taste in music is nearly as bad. Maybe that's why.

The only sound I can recognize is the bottle cap's distorted warble. I usually don't dig those. Occasionally I'll run across a low tone in the foil range that is deeper than usual. I notice the difference and wonder what it is and then I dig it. It's usually one of those paper thin bottle seals. I guess because they're circular, the detector is louder. Small bits of metal in the same range sound off with a much more faint tone.

Everything else sounds the same.
Some experimenting and doing some digging in sites with modern trash. You might get the ear for Nox. It wonít come overnight.

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  #26  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:11 AM
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I just thought of this...do deaf people metal detect?

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  #27  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by beachclad View post
I just thought of this...do deaf people metal detect?
They make detectors with vibrating handles. Nokta makes some. Donít know who else.

Hereís one. Cheap too. Donít let the price fool you though. This detector will hunt.
https://www.noktadetectors.com/metal...etal-detector/

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  #28  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
They make detectors with vibrating handles. Nokta makes some. Donít know who else.

Hereís one. Cheap too. Donít let the price fool you though. This detector will hunt.
https://www.noktadetectors.com/metal...etal-detector/
How significant of a disadvantage do deaf folks have versus the 50 toners?

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  #29  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:32 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by beachclad View post
How significant of a disadvantage do deaf folks have versus the 50 toners?
A deaf person can detect.
I havenít been around a deaf person detecting.

I think they would be slower at doing. But they could still enjoy.

This subject came up here earlier with this thread.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=226197

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  #30  
Old 06-30-2020, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by beachclad View post
I just thought of this...do deaf people metal detect?
I'm sure they can, but I bet they'd benefit from getting the screen off of the shaft and into their line of sight. A pair of glasses that could display the VDI would be pretty cool.

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  #31  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:15 AM
Harold,ILL. Harold,ILL. is offline
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Most people who detect are only listening for one or two tones only so why do you need all the extra ones? I never understood that one.
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  #32  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Harold,ILL. View post
Most people who detect are only listening for one or two tones only so why do you need all the extra ones? I never understood that one.
Short answer: To the trained ear the variance in tone can offer subtle hints to the size, composition and even the shape of a target.

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  #33  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:03 PM
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Thanks for the links TNSS! So, if the Equinox for instance, is made so that the visual target ID takes its cue from the audio ID, it seems like running in 50 tones would give a more accurate visual target ID. That has been my experience anyway. If I am using 5 tones, zinc pennies can give visual target IDs from 18 to 30 depending on corrosion. When I use 50 tones the same zinc pennies are 20-21. Jefferson nickels are 11,12, 13 and maybe 14 in 5 tones but are mostly just 13 in 50 tones.........

beachclad, glad you are hanging in there with the Equinox. It does get easier. 50 tones really does mean 50 different pitches for each individual target segment with -9 being the lowest and +40 being the highest. So your example of 14-17 would produce four different progressively higher pitches.

Jeff

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  #34  
Old 06-30-2020, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold,ILL. View post
Most people who detect are only listening for one or two tones only so why do you need all the extra ones? I never understood that one.
I want to listen to way more than one or two tones in many situations.
I use most options, actually, not all the time because I let the site dictate what might work best.

My Tesoros have one tone but once you learn to understand that tone you find there are varied differences and nuances inherent in that single tone...after you have enough experience listening to it.

My F70 does real well on one tone, also more nuanced than just one tone and all metal is the same.
I still use 3 and 4 tones when park hunting from time to time but sometimes I still switch to DP, 99 tones, in some challenging sites because it actually does help.

On the Nox I am usually in 5 tones one tone just doesn't cut it for me, but I have been known to switch to 50 here and there and surprise...it actually does make some targets stand out better in massive iron and heavy trash.

Why use multiple tones 2-3-4-50 or 100...because sometimes they might give you, or if not you someone else, a little edge where less tones might not.
Why have the option...because it is better to have a feature and not use it then need it and not have it available.
Even if that option is used only sparingly.

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  #35  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:35 PM
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I learned to use full tones on my old XLT and now I canít use anything but full tones on any of my detectors. It helps me find the good stuff without even looking at the screen.

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  #36  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:41 PM
Harold,ILL. Harold,ILL. is offline
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For the record I love 4 tones and that is perfect amount I am not sayin' I use two or single tones. But anymore just sounds to much like pinball machine to my ears.
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  #37  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:55 PM
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A lot of good info in these post. I may have to give 50 tones another try.

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  #38  
Old 06-30-2020, 04:22 PM
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Using any type of 'Multi-Tone' function touches on so many variables. First would be the individual's hearing ability as some of us are hearing impaired and can't hear certain pitches well. In some broad-range tone options we might only clearly perceive some of the tones, yet not hear other tones very well within the range.

Second, some different tone pitches are already determined by circuitry design, whereas other makes and models provide user control of different pitch settings and that allows the user to have just what they want in terms of audio tone.

Third, and due to our personal hearing ability as well as personal taste or like-and-dislike preferences, we might want to limit the number of audio tones we hear based on the sites we hunt and types of trash & desirable targets we are likely to encounter.

Fourth, and this is also important, it really boils down to the individual make and model detector and the circuitry design, and the quality of the audio tones they produce. Not just the number of tones, but how well we like them and how well they work to alert us of a target that is encountered. Multi-Tone detectors are definitely not all designed alike ... and that's a good thing.

I use an XP ORX which, in the Coin modes, can produce up to a 3-Tone audio response. I like the audio tones of the ORX, but I don't like having to select the tones of the big-brother Deus, and I definitely do not care for 'Full-Tone' audio on that model.

I had an Equinox 800 and liked 5-Tone audio or 2-Tone audio, but didn't care for the 50-Tone audio at all. I have a Vanquish 540 and happen to like the 5-Tone audio, similar to the EQ-800, and preferred it to the 3-Tone audio of the V-340.

On my Nokta CoRe and Relic I like the 3-Tone audio in most trashier sites, but favor their 2-Tone audio when I am mainly in an Iron Nail littered site w/o a lot of mixed-metal trash. My two Simplex + units offer both a 3-Tone Park mode and 2-Tone Field or Beach mode. I like 3-Tone in urban trashy sites, but favor the 2-Tone Beach mode w/o VCO audio and then the 2-Tone Field mode that uses a VCO enhanced audio.

Some models, like a Teknetics T2+ or a Makro Racer 2 or Nokta Impact or Nokta / Makro Kruzer or Anfibio all offer their version of a "deltaPitch" on the T2 or 99-Tones on the Nokta and Makro models, but there's a difference. The 99-Tones on those Nokta / Makro are actually 85-Tones. All of the Ferrous-range targets produce the same Low-Tone Iron Audio, and the other 84-Tones in the non-ferrous range will then increase in pitch. So they are 1 + 84 to make 85-Tones.

And with all of those models, even though I have tried to adapt to them, they just do not work for me. I prefer their 2-Tone, 3-Tone or 5-Tone audio reports from all the other models I enjoy .... with one exception.

That is the White's XLT which I have used, many times, ever since mid-June of '94 when I bought my 1st XLT. I liked them for some hunting needs, then let them go to get and try something new and different, but not always more satisfying. I'll be acquiring my 35th XLT in the next week or two and this time I do not plan to let it go. It's a loyal favorite model, and with my 'Bushwhack' program I rely on the Tone ID 95% of the time.

So, it is an interesting topic post, but in-the-end it all boils down to what we each happen to favor based on our hearing and what the different detector makers do to try and satisfy all of us.

Monte

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  #39  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:54 PM
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The simple answer is you do not need 50 plus tones.
The complicated answer is it is not that hard to program individual tones for each VDI number.

How about a nice sexy female voice telling you to dig that junk up.
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  #40  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:59 PM
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I'm apparently one of the few who prefer 50 tones. I sure hated it at first but have used 50 tones exclusively for the last 18 months with great results. I bought my Nox back in 2/18 and have 300 plus hours of detecting time on it. 5 tones is easier to mentally process but over time I have trained my ears to listen for certain tones using 50. Most of the time I can tell the difference between clad, trash, lead, silver or gold without looking at the VDI numbers. The Nox is a great machine no matter how many tones you use but if you take the time to learn it's language, you will waste less time digging trash targets.

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