Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Run in with the PA game commission! Flood control off limits

A

Anthony15620

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
73
Location
New kensington, PA
I know a few folks on here hunt flood control property. Be careful!

So a buddy of mine and I were headed out to our normal "default" spot in a local historic town. We've detected here for years and are well known throughout the community and have friends on the borough council. The area we hunt is Army corps of Engineers flood control property that is leased to the borough as a park. The borough gave us full permission to detect any borough controlled property. They said it was 100% OK to detect there.

Well just as we started on sunday a game commission officer appeared. To make a long story short, even though we fully cooperated, he hassled us big time, searched our vehicles, gave us a BS general citation that he described as a "parking ticket" and threatened to take our detectors. The guy was a complete jerk. We were fully cooperative and explained how we truly thought we had permission. He basically thought we were kids up to no good. (we're in our mid twenties....)

Well, after some discussion with our friends on the council and consultation with the mayor, we found that they gave us erroneous permission to detect and it is in fact illegal to metal detect on army corps property. Which is kind of silly, because they basically let people do everything else there.

The moral of this story is, even though you may get permission from an official source, it could always backfire.

What a great first detecting day of 2015!
 
Know the laws and ordinances yourself, don't rely on "he said"

The laws and ordinances are posted somewhere, ask to see those...for yourself.
 
NectarDetector said:
Know the laws and ordinances yourself, don't rely on "he said"

The laws and ordinances are posted somewhere, ask to see those...for yourself.
Click to expand...

There are no "rules and regulations" posted on this property.

I've been told by police officers that I was allowed to hunt on army corp flood control property in a completely different borough.

Its not just "he said". Its apparently a government disconnect.

I was just trying to give a friendly reminder and help others through my bad experience. ya didn't have to be salty about it.
 
DirtyRob said:
In Indiana all Corps off Engineers property if OFF LIMITS. I thought this was nation wide.
Click to expand...

I was always under that impression myself until I was told by the town council/policeman its up to the borough leasing it. They actually suggested the spot to my friend and I! Apparently that's wrong also!

I did a search and saw that others on here hunt flood control/army corp property and I was just hoping they'd see this and avoid a potential unsavory experience.
 
We have Corp of engineers land at a nearby lake, it's off limits also with the exception of already disturbed areas such as campgrounds. I haven't bothered trying to hunt there but I think they also require you to check in and get permission for the areas they do allow it.
 
Anthony15620 said:
There are no "rules and regulations" posted on this property.

I've been told by police officers that I was allowed to hunt on army corp flood control property in a completely different borough.

Its not just "he said". Its apparently a government disconnect.

I was just trying to give a friendly reminder and help others through my bad experience. ya didn't have to be salty about it.
Click to expand...

It is a he said because you didn't educate yourself and relied on someone elses word. You can find rules and regulations online.

The particular site doesnt have to be posted, but the rules are posted somewhere online.

ME: Know the laws and ordinances yourself, don't rely on "he said"

The laws and ordinances are posted somewhere, ask to see those...for yourself.
Click to expand...

I just re read my post, nothing salty about it...

Sorry you took my post as "salty" whatever that means. :roll: My point was, educate yourself, don't rely on others...

Sorry you don't like salt... I happen to like it on most things :p
 
If it's federally owned/controlled property, you have to read the federal rules, and go with what they allow. The city has to play by the federal rules as well... Least they only gave you a parking ticket. Probably just bad timing on your part, some serious flooding going on in some areas, as all that snow melts... Might not be such a problem in dryer seasons.
 
NectarDetector said:
Know the laws and ordinances yourself, don't rely on "he said"

The laws and ordinances are posted somewhere, ask to see those...for yourself.
Click to expand...

haha, well ..... this advice is flying the face of the frequent admonition to "ask permission" (or .... in some way inquire about the laws, etc...). I too am an advocate of looking things up for oneself. NOT because I'm afraid I may get an ill-informed "yes" (as is the case of this post), but because I'm afraid they'll say "no", when there's really not anything specific that actually said that.

But no matter how you look at it, this post is just all the more reason to look it up for oneself, for a multitude of reasons. And not just the "safe answer of no" psychology.
 
Anthony15620 said:
......We've detected here for years a....
Click to expand...


Ok, so not only did you have permission (albeit perhaps mis-informed), but you also detected there for YEARS, un-bothered, right ? So it sounds to me like if you hadn't run into that singular barney-fife, then perhaps you could have detected for several MORE years.
 
NectarDetector said:
... You can find rules and regulations online.

The particular site doesnt have to be posted, but the rules are posted somewhere online. ....
Click to expand...

But Nector, let's say that someone couldn't find the posted rules. So they asked the authorities there at the local office. Then .... wouldn't a person assume that the authority is basing their answer on the rules/laws ? I mean, who better to ask, than the entity themselves ? So if they said "go ahead", I certainly wouldn't argue with it.

I'm not saying that trumps this new "no" from the lookie-lou the OP ran into, but .... just saying I'd never argue with a "yes" :)
 
Tom_in_CA said:
But Nector, let's say that someone couldn't find the posted rules. So they asked the authorities there at the local office. Then .... wouldn't a person assume that the authority is basing their answer on the rules/laws ? I mean, who better to ask, than the entity themselves ? So if they said "go ahead", I certainly wouldn't argue with it.

I'm not saying that trumps this new "no" from the lookie-lou the OP ran into, but .... just saying I'd never argue with a "yes" :)
Click to expand...

I'm going to write like you and point out the one word that everything hinges on : "assume" and that was all my original post was saying, don't assume, or base it on "he said" find out for yourself and that way things like this won't happen.
 
NectarDetector said:
I'm going to write like you and point out the one word that everything hinges on : "assume" ...
Click to expand...

Ironically though, it's when someone has ASKED, that he'd think he's NOT assuming. I get what you're saying though. But ... just saying , that this sort of sheds light on the whole "ask" thing (at every sandbox you come to, blah blah).
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Ironically though, it's when someone has ASKED, that he'd think he's NOT assuming. I get what you're saying though. But ... just saying , that this sort of sheds light on the whole "ask" thing (at every sandbox you come to, blah blah).
Click to expand...

I was just using your own wording bud... I get your point though, I was told years ago that I could detect my local parks... in writing... however, there could come a day when someone challenges that and says "she didnt have authority to give permission" even though I assume that I have permission because I asked the public information officer for our HOA.
 
Anthony15620 said:
I know a few folks on here hunt flood control property. Be careful!

So a buddy of mine and I were headed out to our normal "default" spot in a local historic town. We've detected here for years and are well known throughout the community and have friends on the borough council. The area we hunt is Army corps of Engineers flood control property that is leased to the borough as a park. The borough gave us full permission to detect any borough controlled property. They said it was 100% OK to detect there.

Well just as we started on sunday a game commission officer appeared. To make a long story short, even though we fully cooperated, he hassled us big time, searched our vehicles, gave us a BS general citation that he described as a "parking ticket" and threatened to take our detectors. The guy was a complete jerk. We were fully cooperative and explained how we truly thought we had permission. He basically thought we were kids up to no good. (we're in our mid twenties....)

Well, after some discussion with our friends on the council and consultation with the mayor, we found that they gave us erroneous permission to detect and it is in fact illegal to metal detect on army corps property. Which is kind of silly, because they basically let people do everything else there.

The moral of this story is, even though you may get permission from an official source, it could always backfire.

What a great first detecting day of 2015!
Click to expand...
Im from Pennsylvania also just did a quick search for army corp of engineers, there are some site where mding is allowed, some places not allowed, some places need to obtain permission from a ranger. Search for your location and or area you want to search. Most searchable places you have to turn in to rangers anything found valued over 25.00 and or anything historical must not be removed but location reported. Just saying...
 
I sympathize with you Anthony.....sounds like "discretionary" enforcement. You caught this guy on a bad day....he searched you cars!!?? WTH! What power tripping jerk...there's a lot more serious issues that law enforcement should be spending their time on.

PS - Certain people on this thread need to "get off their high horse".....we get your point already....
 
METALMANIAC-NY said:
I sympathize with you Anthony.....sounds like "discretionary" enforcement. You caught this guy on a bad day....he searched you cars!!?? WTH! What power tripping jerk...there's a lot more serious issues that law enforcement should be spending their time on.

PS - Certain people on this thread need to "get off their high horse".....we get your point already....
Click to expand...

Tom and I were having a conversation that is polite and if you read my last post then you'll know no one is on a high horse but you apparently. Pot kettle black
 
NectarDetector said:
....... however, there could come a day when someone challenges that and says "she didnt have authority to give permission" ....
Click to expand...

This scenario is actually quite common! I've saved many links to such stories, where ..... a person "gets permission". However, one day a griper comes up to try to boot them (gardener, cop, ranger, or whomever). The md'r proudly whips out their "permission". Expecting the busy-body to slink away embarassed for daring having questioned them, eh ? But nnnneeeoooohhh: The griper merely gets on his cell-phone, calls down to city hall and says: "But he's tearing the place up!" (which isn't true, of course). And then the md'r is sent away more confused than when he started !

I'm not saying this is 100% of the time always. But just saying, it does happen.
 
Inshednow said:
... some places need to obtain permission from a ranger. Search for your location and or area you want to search. Most searchable places you have to turn in to rangers anything found valued over 25.00 and or anything historical must not be removed but location reported. Just saying...
Click to expand...

Inshednow, I have to chuckle at these type "rules" you cite. It's the same type "rule" given @ a bunch of the FMDAC's state-by-state listing. Ie.: "ask at each kiosk you come to" or "with permission of each site-ranger", and "turn in all valuables" or "can't find old stuff", etc....

But you have to do a little reading between the lines of such answers. Do you know how such things came to be, in the first place ? Here's how:

http://www.mdhtalk.org/articles/alternative-view-law/alternative-view.htm
 
I hunted Corp lake in Branson Missouri which required a permit from the Corp office and had the restriction of only hunting swim beaches. Each office has it's own rules which can usually be found on that lake web site. One here in OK does not allow hunting at all but several others restrict it to beaches only.

Just an observation.....this is the third thread I have seen today that Nectar has gotten sideways with someone. Time to go outside and play:laughing:
 
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