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  #1  
Old 03-10-2017, 03:34 PM
Trashman Trashman is offline
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Smile Will we ever see new advantages with new machines/technology?

With no new advancements in many years other than improvement in coil design has VLF detection reached its limits?
There is talk about improvements involving separation but has there really been any advancement ?
Look up nail board tests involving newer v/s older machines but be ready to start scratching your heads at eye opening results!
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2017, 04:01 PM
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A worthy subject for discussion.

There have been improvements made I think.

They are smaller,,and the problem is they are scattered moreso among many detectors.

Nail board tests are good,,,but just like head to head videos comparing detectors on live digs,,,don't paint the whole picture.

Target alerting is a quality I value highly,,,just get me to stop and at least investigate,,,means a great deal.

Some detectors I think are better at this than others.

Audio of detectors,,,I think some improvements made here as well.

Ground balance,,,being more of a digital process less error and more minute adjustments can be had.

Graphics have improved,,CTX 3030 has some of the finest as far as information,,actually seems the data presented here graphically outdoes the audio.

Detector performance,,meaning comparing like models,,I think this here overall more uniform when compared.

Materiel used in construction,,metal seems is going by the wayside,,plastic now being used.

Internet sharing of data,,detector reviews,,interaction by some manufacturers, videos,etc,,this too I think has improved detectors overall,,,some manufacturers still fall short here IMO.

Mineral handling-- I think some advances here have been made,,FBS/fbs2 and Xp I think are moving in the right direction.

Other overseas manufacturers.,,I truly think this is where the bonafide detector will be hatched that truly does give us more depth,,as far as a Vlf detector being able to mitigate the minerals in the ground.

If we right now could take the best features off of every detector made,,and some way be able to incorporate them into one single detector for a reasonable price,,,I think folks might just be surprised at how good this detector would be.

I'm thinking of a hybrid FBS/ more typical Vlf detector all in one.

The gears are turning at the different manufacturers plants,,there are both successes and failures at these same plants,,,trial and error being done,,constructive arguments,,teamwork,,and even disagreements.

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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 05:04 PM
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Default There are companies doing just that.

While Fisher may have rebranded a few models, I wonder what else they added to the detectors. Brand loyalty hurts the advancement, I use three different brands.

I see many advancements that are and can be made. Its always exciting hearing about a new machine. But we miss the point as a good detectorist with a cheap machine will out hunt a poor detectorist with a expensive machine.

I would like to see my detector work more with my cell phone. I could use a magnetometer and a compass and tracking program that doesnt broadcast my spots when it down loads on my laptop.

Sensitivity, depth, and discrimination can always be tweaked further with new coil designs. But yes we have hit the limits of most of the science behind the metal detector.

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Old 03-10-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trashman View post
With no new advancements in many years other than improvement in coil design has VLF detection reached its limits?
There is talk about improvements involving separation but has there really been any advancement ?
Look up nail board tests involving newer v/s older machines but be ready to start scratching your heads at eye opening results!
Not sure what you are seeing,,,,, but having bought close to 25,000 dollars of machines in the last few years and doing extensive nail board and many other tests myself, there is without a doubt improvements in machines, only one older machine that i have come across can compete with separation and recovery with some of my newer machines. But you have to be careful here as i can actually set my CTX up to look like the best separation and recovery machine as you have ever seen, but if i show you the target ID and they way i have to set it up , you would never hunt with it that way, as you will be digging everything and you can do that with a $125 dollar machine. But i can also set it up to rarely dig iron and still recover only nice coins, but on the nail board test it will not sound as well as a 250 dollar machine i have.

I think they can make improvements , but it will come as a multiple freq machine that will 3d image , but you will still be limited to depth constraints unless they can so something similar with a PI type machine , which is capable of greater depth penetration. Or a VLF/PI hybrid which Whites now has a patent on. Rumors has it that a new FBS machine will be out this year as well, and fisher should have some new machines out this year as well.
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rawhide View post
While Fisher may have rebranded a few models, I wonder what else they added to the detectors. Brand loyalty hurts the advancement, I use three different brands.

I see many advancements that are and can be made. Its always exciting hearing about a new machine. But we miss the point as a good detectorist with a cheap machine will out hunt a poor detectorist with a expensive machine.

I would like to see my detector work more with my cell phone. I could use a magnetometer and a compass and tracking program that doesnt broadcast my spots when it down loads on my laptop.

Sensitivity, depth, and discrimination can always be tweaked further with new coil designs. But yes we have hit the limits of most of the science behind the metal detector.
What do you mean by the statement about Brand loyalty hurting advancement?

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  #6  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:50 PM
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The principle of VLF detectors will not change. It is governed by the laws of physics.

What will change is the software and hardware that process the data, as well as the screen that presents the information. The more refined the circuitry and algorithms become, the "deeper" you will be able to hear, the better able to identify things will be come, and the ability to even better ground balance will be had.

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  #7  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:56 PM
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Tell you one thing. I don't worry anymore that everything will be found and there will be nothing left for future detectorists. I posted last week about a park where they were excavating for a totlot.they dug from about 5 inches to a foot deep. Now, I excavated for a living and could go into a long explanation about the soil, their machiary , teeth vs blades, etc.. I even watched them for a day. They didn't drop coins and REBURY them while grading. I found plenty of coins , nine of them silver and I still had to dig for most of them. Point is, all of the parks in my county are pounded and yet a little excavation and there was silver everywhere.detecters will have to get better and deeper in the future and I believe they will. And ther will be plenty of targets to uncover for years to come. I won't see it but my son will have plenty to hunt for when the improvements come.
I did a little hunting outside the digging area, not enough to be definative, but I didn't find anything , just like most other parks. I plan to go back because I now know there is silver there, but I am not holding out much hope.
Keep on trucking !

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  #8  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:56 PM
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Something that I always have to remind myself of as a silver coin hunter is this....for every silver coin I find, that's one I won't find later. Furthermore, I believe that the ability of today's machines far outweighs the general publics ability to use them. Unless a person can tell me for sure that there is a coin in the ground at 8" and is so masked or skewed that NO machine made today will give me a good enough reading to dig it, then we are not at our limits. Here's the catch...nobody can tell me for sure. If you know it's there either you planted it or you're Superman. Planted stuff can't emulate the process it takes for an 8" coin to become an 8" coin. Not exactly. And we would need "exactly".
A lot of people's desire for new technology is due to not finding what we are after. Truth be told, it's better to spend time in the field perfecting technique and finding more lucrative sites. I've found 14 silver coins so far this year and did it by DE-TUNING my machine, so I'm not looking for "more" machine, I'm looking for better sites.
Interesting topic though, it's been floated before. I agree that some kind of hi-res imaging would be the next logical "big step". If I can see SMALL FLAT AND ROUND.....that's a game changer in itself for ME.
And....just like Wom just said, the number of coins just out of reach is unimaginable....

Last edited by IDXMonster; 03-10-2017 at 08:13 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:17 PM
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I have already commented here,,,but here is some thing additionally to share.

Let's say a new technology did get engineered and developed.
And this new detector as a result was not overly priced.
And this detector could unmask,,separate,,along with depth we would have never imagined.

If this came to be.
Then what??

A little story to share here off topic but I feel is very relatable.

We probably have some deer hunters here as well as fisherman/fisher ladies.

Ever use one of the cameras to spy on a deer??
I think the cameras should be allowed but should have cut off periods where they are not to be used during actual hunting season for deer. These cameras has indeed taken a lot of the sport out of deer hunting IMO.

Next,, ,depth finders on boats,,wonder what what happen if a depth finder for a bass boat was developed and released to the public.

This depth finder capable of identifying the species of fish,,and tell you how much it weighs.
Like a bass fisherman could be motoring along or trolling along,,,depth finder says STOP 10 pound large mouth right under the boat!!!

What would happen to the large mouth (big fish) population???

Back to detectors.
Could the same thing happen if a new techy detector came to be,,,was manufactured and not overly expensive to buy?

What would be left coin wise,,and how many big old holes would be in parks,etc??

Could actually destroy metal detecting and relic hunting as we know it.

We may actually be luckier than we think,,to have what we have currently to use to detect with.

And remember fish and deer breed,,older coins and relics do NOT!! Jewelry does replenish to some degree depending on location.

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  #10  
Old 03-11-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Trashman View post
With no new advancements in many years other than improvement in coil design has VLF detection reached its limits?
There is talk about improvements involving separation but has there really been any advancement ?
Look up nail board tests involving newer v/s older machines but be ready to start scratching your heads at eye opening results!
Check Intronik STF threads. It's not a common VLF or PI machine. It could be described as modified VLF.

Older movies, don't pay attention to language used in videos just notice the depth:
https://youtu.be/7j52AotCeO8
https://youtu.be/mPDurXsjjCs
https://youtu.be/LX7QrARZUbo

The latest test with video Golden Mask vs Intronik STF

All vids above were shot on badly mineralized Bulgarian grounds

Pls note Intronik has not been released yet, it's badly delayed

Just finished translation of AKA Lab news

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Old 03-11-2017, 08:01 PM
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Well , we might ,.....if they ever decide to come up with something new instead of re releasing existing models with a different name and paint scheme

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  #12  
Old 03-11-2017, 08:24 PM
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Default Brand Loyalty and hype.

Originally Posted by Big Treble View post
What do you mean by the statement about Brand loyalty hurting advancement?
Some folks get real hurt if you say anything about the brand they are using. If you are happy with the brand you are using, why change.

Why is there after market coils? I believe there just was not enough options by manufactures. Maybe price, or soil conditions didnt work for a detector in a area.

It was bound to happen, new players out there giving us what we asked for.

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Old 03-11-2017, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rawhide View post
Some folks get real hurt if you say anything about the brand they are using. If you are happy with the brand you are using, why change.

Why is there after market coils? I believe there just was not enough options by manufactures. Maybe price, or soil conditions didnt work for a detector in a area.

It was bound to happen, new players out there giving us what we asked for.
Like David,I have commented also but to add...the first statement in the above quote is certainly as true as it gets. I do NOT care if I spent huge money on a machine,if it's not cutting MY mustard,it's going somewhere else. Having a couple or few different machines covers many things, and if they are being operated by a proficient hunter, great success can be had. I have a CTX,a Compadre and a couple in between. I wouldn't defend ANY one of them if they weren't doing their job. The fact is...most machines do their job,as designed.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:30 PM
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In 40 years fish finders have gone from this.



To this



It is about time for metal detectors to do better than give me a ring tone and a number readout.

BCD

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  #15  
Old 03-11-2017, 10:54 PM
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Water is relatively homogeneous, the earth is not. Mineralization, the effects of dry vs. moist soil, discontinuities due to prior disturbance - all these things make "seeing" in the dirt difficult.

The half dozen or dozen really top metal detector designers have been striving for at least 10 years to do something neyond the limits of current single and multi frequency induction balance detectors Nd so far nothing truly new has emerged. Maybe soon?

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Old 03-13-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BufordCityDawg View post
..

It is about time for metal detectors to do better than give me a ring tone and a number readout.
BCD
You beat me to the punch. Sonar is frequently used in water hunting and I use Radar for work. This tech that lets us see in the ground will probably be marketed for hobby machines in the next 10-20 years.

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  #17  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:36 PM
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Nice post

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  #18  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trashman View post
With no new advancements in many years other than improvement in coil design has VLF detection reached its limits?
There is talk about improvements involving separation but has there really been any advancement ?
Look up nail board tests involving newer v/s older machines but be ready to start scratching your heads at eye opening results!
VLF technology (and I include FSB as a variety of VLF) has pretty much reached it's peak. Improvements to it are fractional and not dramatic. One thing that could give VLF technology a significant boost is a big advance in battery technology.

Why do I say that? The choice of batteries for a detector is a compromise of weight, storage capacity and discharge profile curve. If battery chemistry were to dramatically improve, MD manufacturers could significantly increase the transmit pulse power to increase detection depth, while still having reasonable running time and detector weight. Now, the gain in depth won't be one for one, if you double the power of the transmit pulse, you don't get double the depth for geometrical reasons.

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Old 04-15-2017, 11:16 PM
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When I was going to college in the late 1980's, it was stated that music and voice would not be able to be put on a computer because of storage limitations.

We have gone a long way. New technology is out there to be harnessed, however some of us might not see it in our lifetime.

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  #20  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:52 PM
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Yes. We are about to have pulse hybrids that will extend our search parameters.
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