Big Boys Hobbies

VDI influencing factors

High Tone Drifter

High Tone Drifter

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
1,010
Location
Lafayette, Indiana
This is a question I have been mulling over for a while. I see all types of threads about various detectors and what VDI numbers to expect for a particular coin or type of metal. My question is, does it really make sense to know these numbers? I mean, correct me if I am wrong (I'm no expert) but don't these numbers vary according to a lot of factors? Soil type, composition, depth, attitude of the object (coin on edge vs. coin flat), etc....? I have found a few deep (8+) silver coins that started out with a single that would generally be more indicative to a high copper penny or clad dime but improved once the initial plug was cut and out of the way. Now, in the area I am in, if I get a high 70s to low 80s signal at 8 inches or more it has a good probability of being a small silver. What are your experiences / observations?

Thanks in advance!

HH
 
If it sounds good I dig it.Numbers are just a reference, another tool.But no matter what machine I use,no matter what number it is,if it sounds good I'm digging.
 
woodbutcher said:
If it sounds good I dig it.Numbers are just a reference, another tool.But no matter what machine I use,no matter what number it is,if it sounds good I'm digging.
Click to expand...

x2. I always decide what to dig before I even look at the numbers. Unless I'm just out cherry picking shallow clad then I pay a little more attention to them but not very often. I also like to hunt at night without a light sometimes and couldn't read the VDI if I wanted to.
 
I totally agree. When that sound comes in nice and high, it's digging time. I do look at the screen for checking the depth. Just my opinion, but if you rely totally on the screen to determine whether or not to dig, you are gonna miss a lot of good finds.;)
 
Discrimination ='s time management. If you have 20 minutes on your lunch break to hit a park this is not a situation to beep dig in my opinion. So discrimination including TID numbers really help. Or if I want to cherry pick high conductors knowing I will not find gold - I'm good with that too. But to answer your question - Yes - the numbers can be dead on, a little off or way off. It's better to know your numbers than not to know them? How many nickels can you say you've dug that didn't hit in your nickel notch? Didn't most of them either hit hard at 52 or 53 or at least flashed those numbers?
 
I believe I have dug more relics, listening to a Tesoro, than deciphering with my T2 SE.


I believe you can over-analyze targets, given too much information.
 
Curbdog said:
I believe I have dug more relics, listening to a Tesoro, than deciphering with my T2 SE.


I believe you can over-analyze targets, given too much information.
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Sometimes by the time you try this and that. Adjust this or that. Check this or that you can have your target in your hands. I still would rather have a TID machine with the option of setting it to 1 tone. Discing out small iron and putting a paper bag over it so I can't see any numbers. It is hard NOT to look at a TID number if it's staring you in the face......
 
So, what I am hearing is that if you get a high tone but the numbers are low the general consensus is to dig it? I myself dig anything that sounds good. There are times when after 20 or so pull-tabs I will pass by the next five or so just cause I feel like I am spending more time policing trash than ooo'ing and aahhhh'ing over my next cool find. This is especially true if I am on a quick hunt.

I don't know much about other machines. I have an ATpro. Can some other machines differentiate between a clad dime and a silver dime at +6 inches? Is it obvious? Just curious.
 
dwunder said:
So, what I am hearing is that if you get a high tone but the numbers are low the general consensus is to dig it? I myself dig anything that sounds good. There are times when after 20 or so pull-tabs I will pass by the next five or so just cause I feel like I am spending more time policing trash than ooo'ing and aahhhh'ing over my next cool find. This is especially true if I am on a quick hunt.

I don't know much about other machines. I have an ATpro. Can some other machines differentiate between a clad dime and a silver dime at +6 inches? Is it obvious? Just curious.
Click to expand...
On your ATpro if you get a high tone your numbers can't be low. I mean the high tone hits at 75 and above. So you can't say get a high tone and get a solid 52 in the TID. So if you get a high tone it will either be a mixed or jumpy high/low - high-med tone. Or a solid high tone. Your mixed tone can sure be a goodie as well as a solid high tone. But if your just listening for a high tone you are missing out on Indians, Vnickels and such depending on your site. Even when I'm searching for dimes or better I still dig nickels. There are a lot of nickels (old ones) too waiting to come to light. Plus a lot of gold rings hide right in that zone!
Pull tabs sure sound good. Really anything that you've accepted does. I will dig "iffy" targets if time allows. If I'm real picky I will only dig clean signals that are in the numeric range of say dime or better. I have plenty of time to go back over all my sites with less discrimination and dig even more targets if I want. On my etrac I can sometimes hear a more flutey sound of a silver opposed to a clad. Almost like a 3 note flute solo on silver as compared to a 1 or 2 note solo on a clad. Do I get fooled? You bet. Like you said it all depends on a lot of factors. If you watch my videos you can see what I'm talking about. I will usually say that a target has the potential of being silver. This isn't just the sound either. You have to figure in your site. Your past dig history there. Depth of target. Target ID. Sound. If all seem to line up then you can make a better judgement of what to expect before you dig. Again I'm fooled all the time.
 
As far as I'm aware no machine can tell clad from silver.The machine takes in many factors to determine a vid number, and one is size,and shape.clad and silver are the same.
 
When used as intended the VDI is a very valuable tool problem is most people don't use it properly. If you're expecting the VDI to be 100% accurate you're dreaming. Just like the tones. Are they 100% accurate? No! In fact most detectors get the VDI numbers from the exact same chip the audio circuit does. That pretty much means they tones are no more accurate or reliable than the VDI. The Difference is it is much easier to listen to a sound and try to determine what it is that look at the screen.

Personally I find the VDI more informative than the tones. Now of course this depends on the detectors VDI system. The AT Pro isn't going to give you near as accurate info as say the Whites DFX/V3i or Minelabs such as the E-Trac/CTX. This is where the number of target ID segments really comes in to play. Kind of like having more tones. The more tones/target segments, the more accurate and more information you can derive from the display.

And then of course it depends on the type of hunter you are. I'm not your beep-N-digger. I'm very selective and don't bend over and make a hole unless I'm pretty darn sure It's going to be worth it.

As far as I'm aware no machine can tell clad from silver.
Click to expand...

The DFX does this with no problems at all and the E-Trac does quite well. Not 100% but very respectable in reliably telling say a clad dime from a silver. IF you know what to look for.
 
Anyone who tells you "dig everything conductive" , is usually someone in a relic mindset, or beach hunter, etc...

But let's be dreadfully honest here folks: If you approach some blighted urban parks with this mindset, it will be a lesson in insanity! Thus sometimes you need to be a little selective, and go for the silver in junky parks situations. If gold rings are your objective WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU HUNTING JUNKY PARKS FOR, in the first place? Simply go to a swimming beach if gold rings are your objective :)

Another location I've used VDI's to selectively choose, is when the beaches are eroded down to where there's tons of signals to choose from. Why dig pennies, dimes and quarters, when you can hone your time towards the mid and low conductors (which are more likely to be gold rings?). I've seen conditions so thick, you simply can not dig all the targets, before the tide chases you out, and the beach is going to sand back over for 10 more years in that spot. So why the h*ck does someone care about coins and high conductors in situations like that? The only nuisance coin to come up when rejecting all the highs, is nickels :)
 
woodbutcher said:
As far as I'm aware no machine can tell clad from silver.The machine takes in many factors to determine a vid number, and one is size,and shape.clad and silver are the same.
Click to expand...
In the ground I would say that's mostly true. There are times I get that "silver feeling" I can't explain it. But I know it when I get it. (sometimes it passes! LOL)
But in a perfect world I have owned machines with numeric TID that will id silver and clad with a different number. I just air tested my etrac.
10 passes each with a silver dime and quarter and clad dime and quarter.
10 passes with a clad dime read 12-43 every time
10 passes with silver dime read 12-45 nine times and once 12-44
10 passes with clad quarter 12-46 ten times
10 passes with silver quarter 11-46 ten times
Not much difference but a difference.
PS: I can tell a lot more difference in the tones than the numbers. The silver is more flutey over the clad. But like I said in the ground a lot changes.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Anyone who tells you "dig everything conductive" , is usually someone in a relic mindset, or beach hunter, etc...

But let's be dreadfully honest here folks: If you approach some blighted urban parks with this mindset, it will be a lesson in insanity! Thus sometimes you need to be a little selective, and go for the silver in junky parks situations. If gold rings are your objective WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU HUNTING JUNKY PARKS FOR, in the first place? Simply go to a swimming beach if gold rings are your objective :)

Another location I've used VDI's to selectively choose, is when the beaches are eroded down to where there's tons of signals to choose from. Why dig pennies, dimes and quarters, when you can hone your time towards the mid and low conductors (which are more likely to be gold rings?). I've seen conditions so thick, you simply can not dig all the targets, before the tide chases you out, and the beach is going to sand back over for 10 more years in that spot. So why the h*ck does someone care about coins and high conductors in situations like that? The only nuisance coin to come up when rejecting all the highs, is nickels :)
Click to expand...
This is exactly why I don't like all machines that will not let you notch out high conductors. Sometimes I'm hired to find say a 14K wedding band. I don't want to hear any high conductors. I want to zero in on the target.
 
That was my major Reason,and possibly the only reason I gave up my Etrac.I could only run in ttf cause of the junk,to keep it from nulling.I couldn't disc nothing out,it would null.Then you can't go by tone Id,it's all one tone. I had to rely totally on the numbers,and basically keep my eyes glued to the screen.If they could fix that I'd run one again for sure.But on the Etrac you hafto go by the numbers,unless your in clean ground.
 
woodbutcher said:
That was my major Reason,and possibly the only reason I gave up my Etrac.I could only run in ttf cause of the junk,to keep it from nulling.I couldn't disc nothing out,it would null.Then you can't go by tone Id,it's all one tone. I had to rely totally on the numbers,and basically keep my eyes glued to the screen.If they could fix that I'd run one again for sure.But on the Etrac you hafto go by the numbers,unless your in clean ground.
Click to expand...
Were you trying to run the ML coin program?
 
Here's my mind set, If you want to find anything, dig it all above 15. If your are coin shooting, discriminate. Real (maybe) VDI numbers are the ones that are the same, turn 90, check turn 90 check, turn 90 check, turn 90 check.......yep, I do it many times. You can dig it in the time that it takes to do this.....Bottom line is that you are metal detecting, just dig the signal.....why not (except for the iron)? No offense intended for my relic hunting friends...
 
I tried it all.I probably gave up too soon on it,but it was terrible.Not the Etrac,the ground.Seems like every yard had whole cars burried in them.I just didn't see what else I could do.I've said before I'd buy another fbs machine,but I couldn't take it back to those places.Those houses had caskets or something in the ground.But minelab does make a well built machine,feels sturdy.
 
woodbutcher said:
I tried it all.I probably gave up too soon on it,but it was terrible.Not the Etrac,the ground.Seems like every yard had whole cars burried in them.I just didn't see what else I could do.I've said before I'd buy another fbs machine,but I couldn't take it back to those places.Those houses had caskets or something in the ground.But minelab does make a well built machine,feels sturdy.
Click to expand...
What was the auto sensitivity wanting the machine to run at? Were you running manual sens?
 
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