Hobby MD's vs US mil. minesweepers

I think they are somewhat different. If you go to Garrett's website, for instance, they have different "sport, security and countermine" sections right on the front page.

http://www.garrett.com

I never really checked out what the differences are, wasn't really too interested in finding mines...

I would imagine the military grade version would be more sensitive to finding small objects like the tiny metal parts of a fuse in a minimum metal mine and would be more waterproof than it's commercial counterparts, allowing you to take it deeper underwater

It says they are PI units, so that's a different technology than their standard "sport" hobby line of detectors.

Crackerjack said:

Yesterday I was watching the book author presentations on C-SPAN, and saw a presentation by a quad amputee veteran of Afghanistan, Travis Mills. https://www.travismills.org/

SSG Mills was injured by a mine that had been swept over twice by military minesweepers and missed. I'm curious about if the US military minesweepers differ from our hobby metal detectors, or if they are pretty much the same machines. Anyone?

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Unfortunately, it could be for the same reasons we find stuff in the same parks that others have hit hard. Specially if the detecting was done while under enemy fire.

I could be wrong,,,,but I think they use something similar to Garrett ATX.

Very heavy and built rugged.
http://www.garrett.com/cmerwsite/recon_pro_aml_1000_versatility.aspx
Here is a good read,,related somewhat to the topic discussed here.

I've heard of lab rats,,,but not these.


http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130222-scratch-and-sniff-mine-detectors

This subject has been a real personal issue with me...Having my Marine Son-in-Law over in the sandbox, and listening to my daughter cry herself to sleep at night...

We all know, you just cant stick a gizmo in some young persons hands with a little bit of training and expect them to find Mines/IED's!...It takes YEARS of in field practice, concentration, thinking like a trapper, etc. to get any good at this! When it comes down to it, We ARE the Right Man for the job!!


This kinda work shoulda been contracted out to us OLD guys who are really DAMN good at it! With skin in the game! Absolutely committed to the effort, and dont have much to lose!

We have Years behind the coil, pulling wire and slaw and intrinsically understanding all the variables regarding metal and dirt...Studying people, and seeing pinchpoints...We have a Life dedicated to the art of tracking down metal/people is what it takes no matter what rig you are running!! Tragically, no matter what anybody says, What we can do is not an easily learned bootcamp skill!

This cant be learned in short fast order! Really chaps my @ss up angry to see what happened to this young Man! You all know I'm talking right...put yourself over in there and think...Theres about nothing that would get past any of us, masked with scrap nail chaff or not...we would recognize the placement parameters, travel zones and hotspots...

When it comes to mines/IEDs...theres more to that game than just finding metal....You gotta think like a human trapper...and then think like a human trappers trapper...extreme concentration and subtle skills required, only one mistake or lapse in concentration allowed...To hunt a Humans trapper trapper and come out of it??...More tribal knowledge skills required than just running some Dot.Gov issued detector...

Yeah, top shelf performance required there...Most of us got that figured out...Damn! All this Lifetime of acquired skill and study wasted on totlot pennies, while our brave youth take the hit? Tragic!

I wouldnt trust MY life to some bootcamp kid hunting mines with no years of infield study, especially extreme concentration, heads up for the 'set' location, thinking like a trapper.....

The strange thing is, a lot of us would go freely and willingly! Better than hearing your Daughter cry at night with nothing you can do about it, but knowing that you could!...
Mud

Military mine detectors are a different animal than hobby detectors. I once read a guy's PhD thesis on minefield detector technology. Was interesting stuff. They obviously have different concerns, tolerances, and construction requirements. In the end, they both work the same way. It comes down to depth, resolution, sensitivity, and of course durability.

Missing a gold ring will make you want to kill yourself. Miss a mine, and you are literally killing yourself.

When I was in the service, mines were being changed to where many were made with plastics and harder to detect. I don't know what they are made of now. Detecting mines isn't something that they do without training. We once planted a simulated mine field to learn how to use the mine detector. When they brought it out, the batteries were dead. To the best of my knowledge the practice mines are still there. I was going to try and find them once but the thick weeds were about ten feet high.

Silversmith45 said:

When I was in the service, mines were being changed to where many were made with plastics and harder to detect. I don't know what they are made of now. Detecting mines isn't something that they do without training. We once planted a simulated mine field to learn how to use the mine detector. When they brought it out, the batteries were dead. To the best of my knowledge the practice mines are still there. I was going to try and find them once but the thick weeds were about ten feet high.

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Great feedback from a person with a bit of knowledge on the subject! Thank you Silversmith! Training is one thing, but we all know...you really gotta have a guy who understands what the hell is going on here when it comes to Life and Death...hence my former post...

Young kids got no business wandering around with .Gov gear detecting for mines/IED's!.... its not where their talent and strength is maximumly deployed...theres just too many subtleties that can only be learned by hours spent infield..this is OLD Guy work! Dammit!

Mud-puppy said:

Great feedback from a person with a bit of knowledge on the subject! Thank you Silversmith! Training is one thing, but we all know...you really gotta have a guy who understands what the hell is going on here when it comes to Life and Death...hence my former post...

Young kids got no business wandering around with .Gov gear detecting for mines/IED's!.... its not where their talent and strength is maximumly deployed...theres just too many subtleties that can only be learned by hours spent infield..this is OLD Guy work! Dammit!

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Mud-puppy--this sounds like a good contractor opportunity for you. Start a business and staff it with old metal detectives who are not risk averse, and contract with the US Army and Marines to do minesweeping for them. You would make a ton of money real quick, and save a lot of young lives, limbs, hearing and vision. Personally, I'd rather have a dog or rat doing my minesweeping, but I guess there aren't enough trained animals to go around. No offense, but I've seen trained dogs in action and they are very good at mine detection.

Crackerjack said:

Mud-puppy--this sounds like a good contractor opportunity for you. Start a business and staff it with old metal detectives who are not risk averse, and contract with the US Army and Marines to do minesweeping for them. You would make a ton of money real quick, and save a lot of young lives, limbs, hearing and vision. Personally, I'd rather have a dog or rat doing my minesweeping, but I guess there aren't enough trained animals to go around. No offense, but I've seen trained dogs in action and they are very good at mine detection.

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Been thinking about this Crackerjack! Erik Prince is from this area...I do not know him, but I know guys that do...I will run this concept up the flagpole and see who salutes? A whole separate subset of contractor..theres mines all over the World that somebody has to sweep up...plenty of old guys with some skills and nothing to lose...I like that dog angle too...most of us have them as well...
A half dozen guys with detecting gear and dogs could sure clear an area in a hurry...Thanks! I'll report back...

Silversmith45 said:

When I was in the service, mines were being changed to where many were made with plastics and harder to detect.

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+1 ... many of today's mines are made of composite materials. The only piece of metal is a tiny metal firing pin that is sitting vertical inside the explosive. So go to your test garden, plant a sewing needle (verticaly) about 9" deep and try to find it with your metal detector.

Crackerjack said:

Y....I'm curious about if the US military minesweepers differ from our hobby metal detectors, or if they are pretty much the same machines. Anyone?

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Military detectors are made to the MIL STD 810 F ... You can read the standard yourself but in short, the standard ensures equipment is manufactured under a high level of quality control and designed to work in a range of environmental conditions such as water, sand, and snow as well as extreme temperatures.

Often you have the same detector internals but the MIL spec version has each component tested (capacitors, button, relay, springs, etc) and the housing utilizes superior grade materials that are more rugged, than the cheap plastics that surround our machines.

This thread has a lot of merit.

Probably should have been civilian contractors (better trained) at metal detector use and experience to look for roadside bombs, etc.

This knocks the shoes of our metal detectors feet, and to think, this unit is 11 years old!

http://www.military.com/equipment/pss-14-mine-detector

The AN/PSS-14 revolutionizes landmine detection by combining ground penetrating radar (GPR) and highly sensitive metal detector (MD) technology using advanced data fusion algorithms. This unique combination enables the system to reliably and consistently detect anti-personnel (AP) and anti-tank (AT) mines and to reject the detection of metallic clutter, increasing operator confidence and efficiency.

In order to maximize operational effectiveness and efficiency, the AN/PSS-14 offers the highest probability of detection of any handheld system along with a minimal false alarm rate. The system maintains this level of performance across all environmental conditions and soil types, including those that are heavily mineralized.

Specifically designed for the soldier, the AN/PSS-14 went into full-rate production as the U.S. Army’s standard mine detector in 2006.

The GPR is based on a wide-band, coherent, stepped frequency radar transceiver. The search head contains one transmit and two receive antennas. The transmit antenna produces continuous wave, low power radar. As the search head passes over the surface of the ground and radar waves strike a discontinuity in the soil, some waves are reflected back to the receive antennas and processed by the system.

An advanced metal detector coil encompasses the diameter of the sensor head. Passing current through the MD coil creates an electromagnetic field that induces an electrical current in any metal object that might be buried in the soil. The sensor head detects this secondary electromagnetic field and responds with an alarm, alerting the soldier to the possible presence of a mine.

Exceptional performance is achieved using unique data fusion algorithms, which allow the operator to effectively discriminate between metallic clutter and actual mines. The algorithms are based on terrain modeling using a real-time novelty methodology. As the operator advances, the terrain model is continuously updated, enabling the system to automatically adapt to varying soil conditions. Potential mine detection alerts are provided to the operator via audio alert signals.

The greatness of the gear is one thing...'Ground Penetrating Radar' or what not...In field, we all know its about the operators concentration and commitment level for a clean sweep...Recognizing the 'perfect' locations where one would set a mine or trap...Let alone knowing gear and going out with fresh batts ready to rock...

This game is more about the operator's situational awareness, commitment, in field skill, and concentration abilities than the gear...At this level, you aint looking for pennies, or vertical needles...you are looking for Human trappers that want to kill you!...In this light, you only get to make one mistake...

A whole 'nother perspective...next time you find a paperclip, bobbypin, small piece of wire, or a blue jean grommet in a totter...In a war zone,...that could have been it...If you are daydreaming just one little bit, batts low, sweaty headphones not comfortable, distracted in the least little bit, no amount of data fusion algorithms and top end Mil Spec gear will help...

We hunt and track people, thats how we find our treasures...In a war zone, theres people that hunt and track and trap for people...

I think the biggest difference is price. The government/military will pay 3-5x the cost for the same thing.

detectingMO said:

I think the biggest difference is price. The government/military will pay 3-5x the cost for the same thing.

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Maybe closer to 2-3x since Trump got elected!

DaviDs said:

This knocks the shoes of our metal detectors feet, and to think, this unit is 11 years old!

http://www.military.com/equipment/pss-14-mine-detector

The AN/PSS-14 revolutionizes landmine detection by combining ground penetrating radar (GPR) and highly sensitive metal detector (MD) technology using advanced data fusion algorithms. This unique combination enables the system to reliably and consistently detect anti-personnel (AP) and anti-tank (AT) mines and to reject the detection of metallic clutter, increasing operator confidence and efficiency.

In order to maximize operational effectiveness and efficiency, the AN/PSS-14 offers the highest probability of detection of any handheld system along with a minimal false alarm rate. The system maintains this level of performance across all environmental conditions and soil types, including those that are heavily mineralized.

Specifically designed for the soldier, the AN/PSS-14 went into full-rate production as the U.S. Army’s standard mine detector in 2006.

The GPR is based on a wide-band, coherent, stepped frequency radar transceiver. The search head contains one transmit and two receive antennas. The transmit antenna produces continuous wave, low power radar. As the search head passes over the surface of the ground and radar waves strike a discontinuity in the soil, some waves are reflected back to the receive antennas and processed by the system.

An advanced metal detector coil encompasses the diameter of the sensor head. Passing current through the MD coil creates an electromagnetic field that induces an electrical current in any metal object that might be buried in the soil. The sensor head detects this secondary electromagnetic field and responds with an alarm, alerting the soldier to the possible presence of a mine.

Exceptional performance is achieved using unique data fusion algorithms, which allow the operator to effectively discriminate between metallic clutter and actual mines. The algorithms are based on terrain modeling using a real-time novelty methodology. As the operator advances, the terrain model is continuously updated, enabling the system to automatically adapt to varying soil conditions. Potential mine detection alerts are provided to the operator via audio alert signals.

Click to expand...

I want to be at DRMO with a fistful of dollars when these are sold for surplus!