Selling gold to local businesses...(rant!)...*long post*

[Dirt Nuker]

Originally Posted by jwebs

I think(i may be wrong) that the only coins that are illegal to melt are copper pennies.

You are correct and I was only semi-corect. You cannot melt pennies and nickles. Everything else is fair game although I would never do it.

[RyanChappell]

Originally Posted by emfederin

First, jewelry isn't "dissolved" by refiners, either for testing or for refining. For testing, they do a scratch test. If the ring fails, you DO get it back because they aren't allowed to keep what they don't buy. This even includes junk stones that they pop out of things like high-school rings; they have to give them back or buy them. It MIGHT be possible if you trust them that you can tell them to just toss the junk, I'm not sure about that, but they sure can't keep anything they don't buy without your consent.

For refining, the jewelry gets melted down. The melt is then adjusted for karat by adding either gold or copper to it. This is then poured into molds to produce ingots of varying sizes and specific karat. Some of these ingots are then used to spin gold wire or processed into other forms. These karated ingots, wire, sheets and other forms are then sold to jewelers and industry for commercial use.

You stand corrected!

They removed the FAQ about their methods!!!
http://web.archive.org/web/201009241...m/ara-faq.html

4. Q. What process do you use?
A. We use an aquaregia digest, which chemically dissolves the gold released from its impurities. Silver is filtered out with stones and gold is then dropped back out of solution using S02 gas, leaving other base metals suspended in solution. Results are 9999 Gold. Each lot is processed individually for your true recovery of gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia

Aqua regia (Latin: royal water) or aqua regis is a highly corrosive mixture of acids, fuming yellow or red solution, also called nitro-hydrochloric acid. The mixture is formed by freshly mixing concentrated[1] nitric acid and hydrochloric acid, usually in a volume ratio of 1:3, respectively. It was named so because it can dissolve the so-called royal metals, or noble metals, gold and platinum.


Acording to the first link I think they just pay you based on what they recover from the acid! They keep the silver and other metals mixed with the gold.

Originally Posted by emfederin

The notion that a bunch of 10K gold rings are somehow "purified" into pure gold is wrong. To the best of my knowledge, all 999 material is made from native gold dug out of the ground, not from jewelry. Once gold becomes alloyed with copper or some like material, separation becomes prohibitively expensive, and it's cheaper and easier to just make them into commercially standard karat gold forms.

Wrong ARA can send you a 24k ingot from your gold separated from the acid solution for 2% instead of a check.

[RyanChappell]

Originally Posted by Baconator

You are correct and I was only semi-corect. You cannot melt pennies and nickles. Everything else is fair game although I would never do it.

Wrong you can't melt any current coins or currency. Pre 1965 silver has been recalled/retired by the mint, and is fair game.

[gismapper]

We headed to downtown Philly to see the lights at Macy's on Saturday. Decided to swing by jewelers row to cash in some broken gold chains and the one gold ring I had found MDing. I had previously been quoted a price by a local guy, but decided not to sell after reading this thread. The guy downtown gave me exactly double. So, I can confirm that the local guys are most likely gouging everyone.

[hillbillydigger]

Originally Posted by SandFisher

Those little test kits are inexpensive, I plan to test my stuff before I send it in.

Then I know where I stand.
,

I just got a test kit off Ebay with solutions for diff gold platings and silver plus neutralizer drops if you spill it.

[solcalpete]

perhaps, there should be a "sell your gold" section on here.
We could collaborate on a fixed %.... Maybe 85% of spot.
Then just sell to each other.

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by RyanChappell

[B]

Wrong ARA can send you a 24k ingot from your gold separated from the acid solution for 2% instead of a check.

really? will they entertain customers from foreign countries because I don't live in US. Anyway to insure the package too? I won't like it if the gold gets lost halfway thru transit.

[Dark Chameleon]

Originally Posted by searcher sully

I think if you look deeper into the economics part of it, you'd see that making 17% off of a transaction would cripple a business. That 17% goes to wages, rental, other monthly bills and the like. Unless they dealt in massive quantities, they would be out of business in no time. Yeah, paying 30% is absolutely rediculous but for the "strapped for cash" folks, 60-65% would probably actually be fair IMO. They're in business to make money.

With that said, how ARA is able to pay 97%, especially for such a fluctuating commodity is beyond me but I will sure use them when the time comes.

PS- and I'm no economics major so dont take my numbers for gospel, I was using an educated guess.

The difference here though is that a jewelry store isnt in the business of buying scrap gold, they sell jewelry, their markups are great on gold melt when you look at the cost of manufacture, considering most jewelry is made for minimum wage in louisianna and then shipped to the jewelers.

They buy and sell in bulk so they get good deals and the buyer gets to pay for all the profit.

When a garage buys a car at an auction to sell on they spend usually 50% of the peice they quote the buyer, but gold is a high swing product, thining how long ago was gold at $1750/oz and now its less then $1600/oz but that doesnt excuse them ripping people off because they can offset the gold they buy with gold they are sending to the refiners and to be made into jewelry in seconds online or on the phone.

They are paying less because they can, they set the prices the same way debeers used to with diamonds, if nobody is willing to pay more then people who dont have access to fleabay or oother options and need their money right now they will take that deal and moan about it but take it enough times to make it viable to advertise, and check local prices so their 'best prices in town' is legally right, just like the loosest slots or cheapest so and so.

They dont say prices paid as 90% of melt or ever mention percentage of melt because theyd look like real thieves if they did, would anyone walk into a place to be told they are going to get 30% of the value of their goods?..unless they are truly ignorant or desperate or stole them would they ever consider it.

I always pay 95% to 100% melt and in the last few months have lost money on gold and made money before that...i dont buy a lot but its a risk...and most buyers on fleabay pay 100% to stand a chance against the big buyers.

Its a shame that people wait till the last moment to sell so have to take whats on offer and dont sell before the dire need to have a buffer and get the best prices but like other things, its always best to sell your stuff when you dont need the money or buy things when you dont have need for the items

[Dark Chameleon]

Originally Posted by ScubaSteveXdm

My mom recommended me a small shop that she goes to have jewelry fixed , the man owns it and he is the only employee. He gave me 80 percent of scrap witch I thought was very good.

To me it was a no brainer , the silver I had brought was all bought for super cheap back when I was in my teens. My mom and I would go to jewelry conventions and the stuff was dirt cheap. With that and the silver/gold I got , I had very little invested if anything at all.

I think pawn shops and the cash for gold places are a insult.

One of the biggest mistakes you can do is mentally right down your goods because you got them free for presents or when gold was cheap...they are a commodity, never give the buyer a great deal before they have even opened their mouth, they have that item half bought the second you enter their store, telling them how much you paid or telling yourself they didnt cost you anything is the biggest reason so many give so little.

When gold hit $1000/oz and old women were taking group trips to pawn brokers and gold buyers who even rented out halls and stadiums to buy all the gold they could get because when those peopel were in they were fleeced like a herd of sheep and because most of them had gotten their gold and silver and platinum over a lifetime as presents they didnt think they were getting fleeced but they had written down their expectations before they entered and in high numbers had no option to quabble about the price as they would just go onto the next one and that person would probably return later and sell at that price anyway.

I think when you sell gold you should have a consigner sell them online for you or in a store, they will give you so much of a percentage of the final sell price, or use your computer and sell of fleabay but pawnbrokers are the bastian of the desperate or gullable

[fledge]

Originally Posted by WildDigger

A buddy of mine went to a shop that stated on the radio that they pay %80. He called me with the quality and weight they said and their offer. It was only like 25 to30% is all they offered. He told them what the melt value was and they said that the market closed at a very low rate that day. I was watching the market and it closed 1.0? Higher. He walked out. I told him to use ARA.

How do you guys use ARA when the first FAQ says you need a tax id or ein number?

[Dark Chameleon]

Originally Posted by jwebs

I understand what you're saying here, but the I truly believe that these people are lacking in integrity when it comes to this one particular issue. When one oz. of gold is worth ~1800 dollars, and you offer to pay $550 dollars for that, no person in his right mind would not see that as commercial robbery. Even costs withstanding, when you begin to multiply that figure, you can clearly see that none of what you mentioned would be problematic in solving, as well as throwing in yachts, private jets, and a host of other hyperbolic(but necessary to prove a point) luxuries...most, if not all, coming from ignorance or maybe even inaccessibility...

Businesses make money on profit margin but also on quick turnaround, they charge a lot on jewelery when they sell it because they have paid for that piece and may take months if ever sell it and if they dont sell they have to keep reducing or send it back for melt and remaking into something else.

BUT

When your buying stuff intentionally for melt you are making money in seconds, no holding costs, no display costs or advertising, they call their melters and their money is paid within the week and if they make 75% profit in one week that isnt business, its duping and ripping of the seller.

You dont need employees to but scrap, dont need premisses, remember they are not a gold buyer business but a jewelers, they sell jewelry so those costs are already written in...they are just taking advantage of a situation where gold and silver are high and the recession is biting, check history, every time it happens people make money on it....hell the nazis used that as an excuse to pick on the jewish people...they were buying and holding gold and precious metals and stones while the germans were selling it during their recession.

Not saying the jewish were ripping people off, they wernt, but one of the reasons the germans used to call them out was this very thing....and in a recession the price of goods people hold that cant feed them falls lower and lower and the price of things they need like food and gas and fluids rises and rises all based on the same reason...people power....buyer and sellers markets

[aussiedigger]

Originally Posted by fledge

How do you guys use ARA when the first FAQ says you need a tax id or ein number?

I would also like to know.

[SeabeeRon]

Others may know more about this, but I believe if you state what you are turning are "metal detecting finds" you can avoid that part.