Will a Larger Coil Cover MORE Area?

my unscientific experience is no cone. concentrics and DD's have bowl shape with concentric bowls a little deeper than dd but dd is a slice of the bowl. SEF coil is a combo of the two and is the added red to the DD. here is my best rough drawings

concentric front and side view identical and dd side view

dd front

sef side

sef front
 

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I covered that in my response when I said it works on deep coins too. Dug a merc dime 6" down and pinpointed it the exact same way as G4E in his video. Cut the plug at the end, and it was exactly where I thought it would be. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that my experience has been the same no matter how deep the coin is, so how does a DD sound off on the edge of the coil on a deep coin if it is detecting a cone shape?

You have made it clear you don't like the DD, but I'm telling you, nothing you have said matches what I have seen in the field. You say you have tested many of these coils and I have only had one for 2 months, so I'm not claiming to know what I'm talking about, but I bought the coil for greater depth and because my research showed it detecting in a U shape along the narrow band in the center of the coil. When I bought it, and tested it, it appeared to do what It claimed to do. Now I don't know, so I'll have to try it with your thoughts in mind.

Hi. A DD doesn't sound off on a coin at depth , at either the tip or the rear, on the edge of the coil.
Sometime a plug may give an impression that it has held a 6 or 7" coin, and has allowed you to slide along its path to near the tip, when in fact the coin was only an inch to two from the surface and well within a DD's cone.



You may have misunderstood somewhere along the way and you seem to think that I've made it clear that I do not like DD's. The opposite is true.
I was merely trying to help people understand how a DD works.
Ten years ago you couldn't get an American coin hunter to even try one. Now every wants one because they are sucked in to believing that you get more "coverage with a DD.
They had a bad name for many years, and that was due to the poor quality of the units that were manufactured that were using them. The detectors themselves could not handle mineralized ground, so if a user put on a DD and realized the slight depth loss, worked out that a badly made DD gave them no more advantage, they'd go back to a concentric.

And I guess the point I'm trying to make there, is that some manufacturers make very poor concentrics, DD's, and units. It might surprise some people to learn than some concentric move very nicely through heavily mineralized ground, depends on the brand , year, coil and unit. Some DD's are very insensitive ie : tesoro widescans. A lot of people are misled into detecting myths.
 
my unscientific experience is no cone. concentrics and DD's have bowl shape with concentric bowls a little deeper than dd but dd is a slice of the bowl. SEF coil is a combo of the two and is the added red to the DD. here is my best rough drawings

concentric front and side view identical and dd side view

dd front

sef side

sef front

Sorry, but all four are totally wrong.
 
Hi. A DD doesn't sound off on a coin at depth , at either the tip or the rear, on the edge of the coil.
Sometime a plug may give an impression that it has held a 6 or 7" coin, and has allowed you to slide along its path to near the tip, when in fact the coin was only an inch to two from the surface and well within a DD's cone......

I know how deep the merc was and it wasn't only an inch or 2. It was 5" easy and probably closer to 6" Sound off on the edge of the coil. I'm just saying.
 
Sorry, but all four are totally wrong.

Ok I'll put it out there. PROVE it. This is exactly how all three test on the fisher f2. Note the fisher 10" center receive coils is not far from the transmit coil thus having minimal coning to the pattern.
 
I know how deep the merc was and it wasn't only an inch or 2. It was 5" easy and probably closer to 6" Sound off on the edge of the coil. I'm just saying.

Hi gameoftag.

You say you hit the coin the same way G4 did in his video, centre hit first, the slide back to tip of the coil, and the coin was definently between 5" and 6".

Do you think it could be possible, that in sliding back to pinpoint, that the coin was in fact sitting a bit further back, placing it within the DD's cone, and the actual placement of the coin before disturbance of you're plug hole, made it seem like the tip hit it at 6"?
 
Ok I'll put it out there. PROVE it. This is exactly how all three test on the fisher f2. Note the fisher 10" center receive coils is not far from the transmit coil thus having minimal coning to the pattern.

Hi detectingMO.

If you are happy with your F2, and happy in your knowledge of how coils behave in ground, then I'm quite happy not to prove a thing.
 
Yeah but infest the ground with iron and pulltabs and try to find a quarter.I ran 3 coils over the same area with the same machine from largest to smallest.The bigger coils confused the machine.The smaller coil you could watch the numbers and pick out a quarter signal.The larger coils never saw a quarter at all.

i gotta agree with this one cause the other day i ran my 5x8 over a super trashy area of this park and it pulled out my 43 merc i even went back tonight and double checked all around the merc was loaded with pulltabs and lincolns very good in trashy areas im not sure on depth wise if its worth buying another coil for me jmtc
 
In this illustration, the concentric would never allow the machine to see the dime below the nail and crown cap. Having a large junk target closer will give it a stronger signal that the machine will see and report, while you keep on swinging past it.

Read Dankowski's "Beneath The Mask" article.
I will agree with him on that.
Now all I know is that I too have PPed coins using the center method at 6 inches. Fact is I have found I do not even have to wiggle it at all. How do I know they were at six inches, for one my Sunray would not pick them up at all, or I got a blanking where they were supposed to be. I dug two inches nothing and reprobe, and the probe showed the target further down. They were not at two inches ever, but one thing also is they were never dead center in the hole either, they have always been off to the side.
Now on larger coils covering more ground, they may cover it but if the area is trashy, they are not finding anything. This is always a case of like anything else using the right tool for the right job, and sometimes that means a smaller coil.
 
Don't you already know

You have hunted with me many times. Using the 5x8, how far behind you am I?:laughing:
 
Hi gameoftag.

You say you hit the coin the same way G4 did in his video, centre hit first, the slide back to tip of the coil, and the coin was definently between 5" and 6".

Do you think it could be possible, that in sliding back to pinpoint, that the coin was in fact sitting a bit further back, placing it within the DD's cone, and the actual placement of the coin before disturbance of you're plug hole, made it seem like the tip hit it at 6"?

It is possible that the coin was on the back side of the plug and therefore was still being heard further in on the coil. I can't remember, All i know is it was in the plug that I dug using G4Es method and I know it was 5 +inches. This thread has given me much to think about. I will be hitting some spots hard this weekend and will also be testing the DD with your thoughts in mind.
Thanks for all the feedback. Still not convinced but I'm open and willing to re-think whats going on under the coil.

Thanks
 
My diagram was pointing out that I get a triple hit on shallow targets implying that there are sensitive zones below the outer perimeter of the DD coils in a front view. This triple beep goes away on targets more that an inch deep which gives me an indication that I have a surface target even if the machine indicates that the target is deeper.

The point you made about how easy it would be to miss a 6 inch deep target if your forward movement is more than a couple of inches per sweep is well taken. and regardless of what the shape of the detected zone is, slow forward movement is very important if you plan to thoroughly search an area.

So, by "X"ing out my diagram are you saying that there are not shallow sensitive areas under the outer edges of a DD? Or is it the shape of those that you disagree with?
 
My diagram was pointing out that I get a triple hit on shallow targets implying that there are sensitive zones below the outer perimeter of the DD coils in a front view. This triple beep goes away on targets more that an inch deep which gives me an indication that I have a surface target even if the machine indicates that the target is deeper.

The point you made about how easy it would be to miss a 6 inch deep target if your forward movement is more than a couple of inches per sweep is well taken. and regardless of what the shape of the detected zone is, slow forward movement is very important if you plan to thoroughly search an area.

So, by "X"ing out my diagram are you saying that there are not shallow sensitive areas under the outer edges of a DD? Or is it the shape of those that you disagree with?

Hi Finnerman.

It was a bit rude of me to x out your diagram in red like that, I apologise for that. No, the rim of the DD is sensitive round the rim, it was the point at the end of the blade, looking front on....
The so called "blade" is the same length in width at the bottom of the maximum detectable depth as the top centre, near the coil.

The cone tip does not exist.
 
It is possible that the coin was on the back side of the plug and therefore was still being heard further in on the coil. I can't remember, All i know is it was in the plug that I dug using G4Es method and I know it was 5 +inches. This thread has given me much to think about. I will be hitting some spots hard this weekend and will also be testing the DD with your thoughts in mind.
Thanks for all the feedback. Still not convinced but I'm open and willing to re-think whats going on under the coil.

Thanks

Good on you gameoftag, that's what I like to hear!

Best of luck on the weekend.
 
In this illustration, the concentric would never allow the machine to see the dime below the nail and crown cap. Having a large junk target closer will give it a stronger signal that the machine will see and report, while you keep on swinging past it.

Read Dankowski's "Beneath The Mask" article.

Hi Longhair.

Not if your running a quick recovery unit with an amp/damp.
 
I once tested the "wiper blade" coils and found the full width at about 2" down, then a wiper blade signal about one-half at 4" down, and finally, a wiper blade signal about one-fourth at max. In other words, the search area "ratcheted" down in wiper blade lengths as the depth increased. So yes-full coverage for the first couple of inches.
 
No offense taken. That is interesting about the shape, I have personally seen the CTX3030 find some things that seemingly should have been masked, however, when you are digging things get all jumbled up so you never really know how they were positioned in the hole. The article on masking is quite interesting. I plan to recreate the staple/dime test tomorrow just for my own benefit. I will let you know how it goes.
 
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