Liven up the forum while we are all (supposedly) restricted from getting out :

Tom_in_CA

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
20,637
Here's an old story I read on a forum years ago, that bears repeating again. It was some dude's lament that went something like this :

He had gotten into the hobby of metal detecting, somewhere in the upper midwest or plains states somewhere. This was, I think, back in the mid 1990s when the internet was still fairly new (and not everyone was plugged in, nor was everything digitized like today).

He finds out there's a club in the nearby bigger city. And makes the monthly drive to attend their meetings. He meets other long-time md'rs from his area of the state, and starts to make friends. He absorbs everything he can about the type detectors, joins the competition hunts, etc... And as can be expected, keeps an ear tuned for the type places they hunt at.

One of the places that several long-time members of the club would hunt, was a large reservoir in that part of the USA, that served the water needs of dozens of surrounding counties. Ie.: a giant reservoir, built perhaps in the late 1940s (CCC or army corps of engineer, or whatever). And had since become a big tourist draw for water skiing, swimming, houseboating, camping, fishing, etc.... And since it had scores of beaches, with thousands of swimmers/visitors on any given summer weekend, it had become a go-to spot for md'rs to ply their luck for rings, coins, etc.... The newbie would occasionally join his buddies on hunts there.

A few years into his hobby one day, he was noticing that the temperatures had been scolding hot during a holiday 3 day summer weekend. So he knew therefore, that the reservoir had probably seen capacity crowds. So he decided he was going to try his luck at the beaches there, @ the first thing Monday morning .

To be continued :......
 
So he makes the hour-long drive to get to the reservoir first thing Monday morning, following the holiday weekend. He arrives at the crack of dawn, so his car is the only vehicle in the parking lot that leads to the beaches. He dawns his gear, and hikes across the grass to the beaches and starts detecting.

About 30 minutes into his hunt, he notices that a truck has pulled into the parking lot, and parked right next to his vehicle. He thought nothing of it. But a minute later he notices that someone is marching his way, right towards him. He sees that it's a ranger . D/t the crisp green uniform, smokey-the-bear hat and badge, etc... And again, he thinks nothing of it. He figures someone is just coming out to say "hi" and "having any luck" or whatever.

The ranger comes up and tells him : "You can't be doing that here". At first, the md'r thinks the guy is joking. So he laughs and says "yeah right". But the ranger is serious ! And after some chit-chat, the md'r realizes that the ranger doesn't appear to be joking around :/ So he says "Why ?". The ranger merely says "Because it's a state park" .

So, the md'r, not-being-one-that cares to "argue with authority", apologized and said "I didn't know", as he reached to turn off his controls. The ranger just says "Yup, you have to beat it. Sorry". With that, the two of them marched back to the parking lot, and the md'r loaded his gear and left.

To be continued ........
 
As the md'r started the long drive back home, the entire encounter started to get under his skin. He's thinking to himself "I don't know of any rule or law that says such a thing". And "I've md'd here for years, and never had a problem". And "my buddies md'd here for years even before me, and never had a problem". So he began to suspect that this ranger didn't know what he was talking about. Thus he decided that when he got home, he was going to research this further.

He calls his buddies and told them about the encounter. They agreed with him that they knew of no-such-rule. And that they didn't intend to stop. This sort of bothered the newbie, because he felt like "If my buddies continue to go (because no one's ever said squat to them), then .... How is that fair to me ? Because since I've been warned, perhaps I could now get into some sort of trouble ?"

So he decided he was going to "get to the bottom of this". He got every type of listing of rules that pertain to that park's usage. And as suspected, could find NO RULE that says "no md'ing". Then he remembered that the ranger had said ".... because it's a state park". So he thought maybe there's an over-arching higher-set of rules that cover ALL statge parks , eh? So he found the rules for use for all state parks. And all state laws in general. And ... same result : NOTHING THAT SPECIFICALLY SAID NO MD'ING ! His suspicions that this ranger was full of cr#p were starting to be confirmed. Hence he decided he was going to "do something about it."

He told his friends he was going to make a formal objection to his booting, to higher levels, so as to confirm that he could indeed detect there. His friends were like "whatever" (no sweat off their backs). He decided he would write a letter to the head of state parks, in state capitol head offices, to get this straightened out. He researched who it was, in that heirarchy, who would be in charge of such decisions. And began drafting his letter .

To be continued ........
 
However, as he prepared, during his research, he ran into some troubling passages in the minutia. That .... if you stood on one foot and squinted real hard, *might* be said to apply. Ie.: ancillary related verbiage. For example: Rules that forbid "alter and deface". And rules that forbid "harvest and remove". And .... of course .... the dreaded cultural hertiage verbiage. Eh ?

But in each and every case, it seemed that those things COULDN'T apply to him, at this location. For example "Alter and deface" is silly for a beach. Since, of course, kids dig sand castles. And besides, he fills his holes anyhow. Hence that shouldn't apply. And as for "harvest and remove", .... c'mon, that's so that people don't take home park benches, cut down trees for lumber, etc.... It was NEVER MEANT to apply to fumble fingers losses.

And as for "cultural heritage", that was a little more difficult. It used the word "artifact". And his thoughts were "how the heck is an 'artifact' defined ?". So he did cross-referencing and word-studies, and found that it is most-often defined as objects 50 yrs. old or older. Hhhhmmm But this also didn't make sense, because, as of the time-of-this incident, that reservoir was ONLY JUST THEN approaching 50 yrs. old. Thus while it was technically possible to (gasp) find a merc or wheatie, yet ..... let's be realistic : That's silly in the case of a place that's barely even 50 yrs. old. And besides, they are just there looking for modern drops (jewelry). Not only that, but md'rs remove harmful nails that can poke an innocent child's foot. So if anything, the md'rs should be "given a medal", eh ?

So he drafted his letter, detailing the date and time of the booting, the officer's name, etc.... And then proceeded to show that any of the 3 objections that *might* be said to apply, don't really apply. Thus " ....If officers so & so was relying on those citations, then here's all the reasons why they don't apply" sort of thing.

He took the letter to the club meeting, put it on club letterhead, and had all the members of his club sign it. He sent it off in the snail mail and sat back to await a verdict.

To be continued...........
 
A few weeks went by, and he still had no reply to his letter. So he decided to call the state capitol division of parks office, to make a personal call to the guy. Eg.: To see what the status of his appeal/objection was. He just got a bunch of switchboards passing him desk to desk, till he finally gets the particular authority's voicemail. He left a nice voicemail to the effect of : "I sent you a letter several weeks ago, and am curious as to your answer. Can you please call me or answer the letter. Looking forward to hearing from you ", blah blah

But several more weeks go by, and STILL no reply or call back. HHhhhmmmm.

One day, during this period of frustrating waiting, he decided he was going to go metal detecting. He decided on a particular campground that , like the lake, was just another normal "go-to" spot that he and his buddies always tended to ply their luck at. And it didn't even occur to him "state" vs "county" vs "city" or whatever. It was just known to the locals as "such & such park campgrounds".

He arrives at the campground and starts detecting. But a ranger was soon confronting him saying "You can't do that". HOWEVER : This time, the fellow was a walking encylopedia of rules and laws pertaining to the subject. So THIS TIME he was not going to "tuck his tail and leave" like he had done before. This time he says "Show me where that's written. Because I can show you that there's no rules that say 'no md'ing'" In other words, he was firmly (but nicely) "standing his ground" this time. And also at the exact moment, putting 2 + 2 together , and realizing that this too was another state-administered park.

The park ranger just chuckled and said "Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger" .

To be continued ........
 
The ranger pulls a folded up piece of paper out his back pocket, unfolds it, and hands it to the md'r. It was apparently a fax that must have gone out to all the rank-&-file individual park kiosks and stations across the state. And it was a "B.O.L." to be on the lookout for, and usher on anyone seen md'ing. "... Since this activity is not allowed in state parks". And the memo went on to details the 3 reasons why it wasn't allowed pursuant to : 1) alter and deface prohibitions, 2) harvest and remove prohibitions, and 3) cultural heritage wording.

And at the bottom it was signed by GUESS WHO ? The very person he'd been petitioning in state capitol. HHhhhmmm. So he just handed the paper back to the ranger, turned off his machine, and left.

He immediately connected the dots, and now wish he had just "left good enough alone". He realized, right then, that he had single handedly gotten all his state's parks "put off limits". He wished now that he'd avoided 'just that one park' and/or 'just that one ranger'. Heck, perhaps that singular ranger was just having a "bad hair day" ? But now he had gone and swatted hornet's nests, and created a big mess :(

His buddies got wind of this, and they started to shun him as a trouble-maker as well.

Does anyone else remember when this story appeared years ago ? If someone has the actual first-hand-story (I'm just relating it as I recall it), then post the link.
 
I like the story Tom! Its a lesson!......

Did Ghengis Khan axe anybody in 7 time zones permission to ride and raid across their self assumed boundaries? Did Francisco Pizzaro give one royal flip to the Aztecs?? Did Louis and Clark give one diddly damn to the property rights of the upper Missouri Mandan Nations?? Did Masu Mansa give one solid tinkers cuss about mining rights or express concern about the ecology status of Africa river basins?

Did Barry Gordy give one rotten roach for what Phil Specter thought about the Motown wall of sound? Did Neil Sedaka and Barry Manilow and Billy Joel all try to stuff the luvpop radio airwaves of the 70s? They all just friggin went and did what they pleased and the hell with you and the hat you are wearing?! ABBA and the Beegees be damned!

Land is held, secured, and enforced by the strongest hand at that specific moment in Time....this is true, no matter what, its all subjective to Time...

Case in point, I allegedly 'own' 300' of primo river front property. I pay taxes on it, the title is in my name...yet, if I'm not there to enforce my rights as an 'owner', and some vagabond drifter hippy canoeists pull ashore and set up camp for an evening..who has the stronger hand and claim to the property?

If I'm not there to tell them to get lost and keep floating, The drifting hippys have the rights..for that moment in time they actually 'own' my property...and thats OK with me....I'm not always the strongest hand, but I get my share on the balance of things...I'm rolling Ghengis mentality generally positive..without all the yelling and horses and !!!!...!.

I'd sure like to meet a nubile and nimble nymphomaniac female girl who likes running rivers in small boats, easily entertained, is independently wealthy with no kids and is settually attracted to a fat old liver spotted old bull bastard on the downslope of Life......Yeah..well....Wish in one hand and poop in the other...

Hope and Dreams are cruel Mistresses!...but at least a guy has an imaginary Mistress none the less..and 300' of imaginary ownership of river property where somebody soulmate suitable just might wash ashore of an evening when the kingfishers are working the riffles and things are settling in for the night.. ....and we get to talking...thats all I axe....just a shot...
 
Last edited:
I like the story Tom! Its a lesson!......

Did Ghengis Khan axe anybody in 7 time zones permission to ride and raid across their self assumed boundaries? Did Francisco Pizzaro give one royal flip to the Aztecs?? Did Louis and Clark give one diddly damn to the property rights of the upper Missouri Mandan Nations?? Did Masu Mansa give one solid tinkers cuss about mining rights or express concern about the ecology status of Africa river basins?

Did Barry Gordy give one rotten roach for what Phil Specter thought about the Motown wall of sound? Did Neil Sedaka and Barry Manilow and Billy Joel all try to stuff the luvpop radio airwaves of the 70s? They all just friggin went and did what they pleased and the hell with you and the hat you are wearing?! ABBA and the Beegees be damned!

Land is held, secured, and enforced by the strongest hand at that specific moment in Time....this is true, no matter what, its all subjective to Time...

Case in point, I allegedly 'own' 300' of primo river front property. I pay taxes on it, the title is in my name...yet, if I'm not there to enforce my rights as an 'owner', and some vagabond drifter hippy canoeists pull ashore and set up camp for an evening..who has the stronger hand and claim to the property?

If I'm not there to tell them to get lost and keep floating, The drifting hippys have the rights..for that moment in time they actually 'own' my property...and thats OK with me....I'm not always the strongest hand, but I get my share on the balance of things...I'm rolling Ghengis mentality generally positive..without all the yelling and horses and !!!!...!.

I'd sure like to meet a nubile and nimble nymphomaniac female girl who likes running rivers in small boats, easily entertained, is independently wealthy with no kids and is settually attracted to a fat old liver spotted old bull bastard on the downslope of Life......Yeah..well....Wish in one hand and poop in the other...

Hope and Dreams are cruel Mistresses!...but at least a guy has an imaginary Mistress none the less..and 300' of imaginary ownership of river property where somebody soulmate suitable just might wash ashore of an evening when the kingfishers are working the riffles and things are settling in for the night.. ....and we get to talking...thats all I axe....just a shot...


Puppy-mud, I've said it before, and I'll say it again : My only goal in life is to have the golden-pen-creative writing ability that you have.

In an era before the internet (because all your stuff is free now), you would have might quite a good living at writing newspaper opinion humor columns.
 
The ranger pulls a folded up piece of paper out his back pocket, unfolds it, and hands it to the md'r. It was apparently a fax that must have gone out to all the rank-&-file individual park kiosks and stations across the state. And it was a "B.O.L." to be on the lookout for, and usher on anyone seen md'ing. "... Since this activity is not allowed in state parks". And the memo went on to details the 3 reasons why it wasn't allowed pursuant to : 1) alter and deface prohibitions, 2) harvest and remove prohibitions, and 3) cultural heritage wording.

And at the bottom it was signed by GUESS WHO ? The very person he'd been petitioning in state capitol. HHhhhmmm. So he just handed the paper back to the ranger, turned off his machine, and left.

He immediately connected the dots, and now wish he had just "left good enough alone". He realized, right then, that he had single handedly gotten all his state's parks "put off limits". He wished now that he'd avoided 'just that one park' and/or 'just that one ranger'. Heck, perhaps that singular ranger was just having a "bad hair day" ? But now he had gone and swatted hornet's nests, and created a big mess :(

His buddies got wind of this, and they started to shun him as a trouble-maker as well.

Does anyone else remember when this story appeared years ago ? If someone has the actual first-hand-story (I'm just relating it as I recall it), then post the link.
Man you are a great typist. Woulda taken me better part of a day to type that thread.
 
What ?? You mean nobody ever figured out that the Ranger that ran him off and created the BOL Fax was a detectorist himself :laughing:
 
Oh, I just remembered another part of the md'rs lament :

In the process of his researching his own state park's code that might apply to md'ing, he had ... by happen-chance .... stumbled on to a neighboring state's verbiage on the subject, for their state parks.

The neighboring state's codes/rules for their state parks actually had an EXPRESS ALLOWANCE for md'ing. Albeit something like "on sandy beaches only" . So the md'r, when he saw that, thought "THAT'S WHAT WE NEED HERE". So that in that way, it would no longer be up to the arbitrary whims and interpretations of an individual passing ranger.


So when he had sent his appeal/clarification letter, he had alerted them to the neighboring state's wording, suggesting that something like that should be adopted for his state.

Genius idea , right ? Who can argue with "express allowances", eh ?
 
I seen and ran into this before . The person behind the desk and police are brain tuned to say NO. So I will never ask. But every situation is different.
It can just be a stick situation.
Last summer I was at a large torn down school lot and vroom three police cars flue across the property up to me, I thought I has robbed a bank. The come up to me and was really giving me my rights so I quit and stared back toward my car then stopped and went back to detecting. Man did they come running toward me. And was not happy with me. I just kept listening and when they were done I started chuckling and they looked at me funny ? Like what. They were upset. I pulled out my wallet . I had personal permission to detect the property from the person that maintains the property who i went to school with. The police said well I got them and they laughed.
 
...... I pulled out my wallet . I had personal permission to detect the property from the person that maintains the property who i went to school with. ....

And ironically, here's what happens next: The people who read this type of story (and/or hear about "permits" and "People who got permission") will .... guess what they will therefore do ? Drumroll : Ask permission. Because, after all, it got a guy like donut out of a pickle, eh ?

Also I would add, that for a lot of the "stories of people that got permission" that might MAKE you think that "Gee, therefore that's a great thing" : When you stop and think of it, the entire enterprise just assumes permission was even necessary TO BEGIN WITH. And maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

But the REASON why it implies permission was necessary to begin with, is that: It is implied that the MERE REASON anyone can GRANT you permission, was that their say-so was needed IN THE FIRST PLACE. Because otherwise, how could they have granted you that princely yes or no, if their permission weren't necessary, IN THE FIRST PLACE ? (see the vicious circle ?).

Did you think they were going to say "Gee , that's an odd question, you didn't need my say-so. Since it's public land and there's no laws saying 'no md'ing', then ... why are you asking me ?". No. Bureaucrats/authority never acts/replies that way. Instead they bestow on you their princely yes or no.

But when you get a "yes", I do not construe that to result in a "See ? It was a good thing I asked", or to mean that therefore their permission was necessary. All it is, is playing Russian Roulette .
 
A certain ranger in NV got caught uncovering native artifacts with a backhoe.

If I were a park ranger, in any state, I would NEVER stoop so low, to metal detect in the parks that I'd manage. And Chris, I know that you too are of better morals than that as well.

And while we're on the subject : What agency administers the beaches of Lake Tahoe that you detect ? I mean are they state beaches ? City beaches ? county or fed ? Or private ?

Because once you tell me, I am going to inquire to those agencies to see if it was ok for you to take home those coins that were over 50 yrs, old, and if it was ok for you to have "altered the beach" and "remove things". So I will eagerly await your answer :)

If they say "no it wasn't ok", then I am going to link them to a few of your show & tell posts here. But .... for a mere $100, I can be persuaded to keep quite. I accept paypal :)
 
If I were a park ranger, in any state, I would NEVER stoop so low, to metal detect in the parks that I'd manage. And Chris, I know that you too are of better morals than that as well.

And while we're on the subject : What agency administers the beaches of Lake Tahoe that you detect ? I mean are they state beaches ? City beaches ? county or fed ? Or private ?

Because once you tell me, I am going to inquire to those agencies to see if it was ok for you to take home those coins that were over 50 yrs, old, and if it was ok for you to have "altered the beach" and "remove things". So I will eagerly await your answer :)

If they say "no it wasn't ok", then I am going to link them to a few of your show & tell posts here. But .... for a mere $100, I can be persuaded to keep quite. I accept paypal :)

We all know how you work. Need to change the name from TominCalifornia to MidnightRaider in California. No public entity exempt😂😂😂
 
Thank you Tom for taking the time to share this story with us. Since I have started detecting, I have quickly become a disciple of your "nobody cared until you asked" philosophy, both through my own experiences in hunting and through the stories of others. This story only reinforces that sentiment.

I now cringe when I hear detectorists ask others if they should ask permission to hunt public land. Why on Earth would you keep putting yourself in a position for someone to finally say no? And why if someone in authority does confront you and give you the bum's rush, would you make a big stink about it? Let the issue drop and be forgotten and get on with it; don't give them a chance to just shut the whole thing down and ruin it for everyone.

There's a local town near me (~10K pop., so not large by any means) which is the only one I know of which expressly forbids metal detecting in parks. Ironically, this town is also the only one that has a store that sells metal detecting supplies! It makes me wonder what the impetus for banning all detecting in town was, but I imagine it was something similar to this...
 
Back
Top Bottom