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Old 07-06-2017, 10:19 PM
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Default Using All Metal Mode

My Rutus Alter has an all metal mode that I'm trying to understand. It can either be used by itself, or in combination with the discrimination mode (dual mode).

I was detecting a very clean patch of ground today so I thought I'd put it into dual mode. This added the threshold sound with VCO to the information I was getting, but I'm not sure I see the benefit since the objects were detected via the discrimination channel as well, and it provided much more information on what the object was.

Can someone help me understand the benefits of using just the all metal channel and then what it adds to the discrimination channel when in dual mode?

Thanks.

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Old 07-06-2017, 10:57 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Alright.
I haven't used all metal on Rutus hardly at all.

Rutus has the dual mode, White's V3i does as well, I think it is called mixed mode.

So all metal running in conjunction to disc channels.

What can it do for you?
A couple things.

First if you are running in disc only mode and sweeping around in a field where let's say targets (nonferrous and ferrous) are sparse.
If you sweep over a deeper nonferrous target, you likely will have to flush this deeper nonferrous target with your coil sweep, other wise you may hear no tone at all.
Ever notice how coil position sensivite a deeper coin is when sweeping?

So, if you engage AM to boot with disc, when you are sweeping your coil's periphery is more alive.
Meaning you have more leeway to locate a target.
Now when the AM channels sounds off,,sometimes depending on the target's depth and maybe conductivity and size, if you will start trying to find the actual targets with center of your coil,,,the disc channel will sound off and give you tone and ID.

Now, you can run like this above, and the AM may sound off , but with better coil position, the disc channel Amy never sound off.
This could indicate a real small target, a target where the freq and conductivity of target are a mismatch, or a deeper target.

You will in these predicaments have to make a decision to dig or not.

I encourage you to bury some deep nails and deep coins.
And Listen to them using AM.
The key is to continue to rotate around target and listen to the way the AM reports.

Try a 16 penny nail.

You will notice a difference as to the round signature in reporting with a coin vs a nail.
It takes a good trained ear.
Now, I won't BS you here.
Even with a good trained ear, can you still dig deep iron or nails?
Yep.

A scenario where this here may be of help.
Let's say you have discovered some deeper Civil war bullets in a field.
And after hunting with disc mode, you can turn on dual mode or just AM by itself.
You may be able to detect some of the deeper out of range in disc mode bullets.

Can be applied to coins too.

A site with loads of iron, maybe not the best place to use or try.
But hey, if a site has produced nicely a person can give it a go.

Most all detectors have a sensivity adjustment for the AM channel when us using mixed or dual mode.
Be mindful, this level of sensitivity here will be a driver of your detectors depth capabilities AM wise.

Forgot to say, this info may be helpful too.
It is very possible when detecting using disc channel only, to sweep a deeper target on the coil' periphery and the op will get an iron tone, hence walk.
All relic hunters especially should keep this in the back of their heads.
Some times even a deeper target when swept out of ideal coil,position will give a so so tone- meaning not ideally a nonferrous tone, but not a hard iron tone either.
I witnessed this when finding deeper targets using F75 DST unit uaing disc channel only.

Yes it will cause a lot or resweeps but deeper targets usually take more work, comes with the territory,

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Last edited by tnsharpshooter; 07-06-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2017, 06:00 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
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If it works like mixed mode on the DFX, it helps locate deeper targets. I don't know how the Rutus 71 works or the adjustments it has.
With the DFX using mixed mode and VCO you can tell iron from a good target. With the DFX you can adjust DC sensitivity (all metal ) and AC sensitivity ( discriminate ). When you set the DC higher it changes the threshold to a deeper tone. It recovers faster between targets, than just using discriminate.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:53 AM
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Thanks TNSS -

That makes sense.

I am building a test garden, mostly of things I don't want to be digging. So I have a few nails at different depths, bottle caps, pull tabs, etc. I have coins too, but figure learning how to avoid stuff is as important as learning the good signals.

What you say about all metal makes a lot of sense. I have the perfect field to try it out on. I've pulled a few good pieces from it, but it's very clean, not a lot of trash. I can't believe it's hunted out.

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Old 07-07-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by graybeard View post
If it works like mixed mode on the DFX, it helps locate deeper targets. I don't know how the Rutus 71 works or the adjustments it has.
With the DFX using mixed mode and VCO you can tell iron from a good target. With the DFX you can adjust DC sensitivity (all metal ) and AC sensitivity ( discriminate ). When you set the DC higher it changes the threshold to a deeper tone. It recovers faster between targets, than just using discriminate.
One of things I really like about the Rutus is how it gives the user complete control over all of the settings. VCO was added in the last update.

How exactly does it help you tell iron from a good target? That's the part of all metal that i'm not understanding. To me it's almost like a pinpoint function that is audible no matter the type of metal it's detecting but doesn't really give information on the type of metal.

I'm all for learning how to use all the information available from your machine. When the AT Max hits the shelves there will probably be a lot of users wanting to learn how to us the all metal mode.

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Old 07-07-2017, 12:28 PM
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The long and short of it:

The disc channel goes though all kinds of signal processing - and while doing so causes loss of depth due to signal degradation due to the discrimination circuitry chopping out bits of signal.

The All Metal channel does not go through any of this signal processing so nothing gets cut out of the signal and there is no degradation of this channel's signal. You get better depth in All metal mode.

Now, I am unsure how the Rutus presents these channels - if you get both channels in the head phones, or DISC channel in one ear, and the AM channel in the other.

The benefit to having stereo mixed mode audio is that you will find deeper things when you hear the whisper signals in the AM channel that you do not hear in the DISC channel.

If you just have a mixed mode where both channel are overlapping, you may not hear the AM whispers - depending upon how the thresholds are set.

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Old 07-10-2017, 04:02 PM
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On the DFX for pinpointing you turn ratchet pinpoint off and VCO on. By running in mixed mode with VCO, it beeps on good targets and you hear the VCO sound on any iron or metal trash in the ground. When using the Rutus 71 with VCO on, does it show ID numbers?
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:12 PM
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besides depth I find mixed mode on detectors is most beneficial for telling the shape and size of targets. really gets your ears tuned to quickly tell good targets from bad or falses. I just wish white's didnt make heavy boat anchors as their detectors with this feature are great!

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Old 07-11-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by graybeard View post
On the DFX for pinpointing you turn ratchet pinpoint off and VCO on. By running in mixed mode with VCO, it beeps on good targets and you hear the VCO sound on any iron or metal trash in the ground. When using the Rutus 71 with VCO on, does it show ID numbers?
Yes, when in mixed mode it does show VDI numbers. I haven['t tried the pure all metal mode yet.

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Old 07-11-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by detectingMO View post
besides depth I find mixed mode on detectors is most beneficial for telling the shape and size of targets. really gets your ears tuned to quickly tell good targets from bad or falses. I just wish white's didnt make heavy boat anchors as their detectors with this feature are great!
I can see the benefit of that. The Rutus loves aluminum cans when they're crushed vertically. I can usually tell they're bigger than a coin, but the other information is so good I almost can't help myself and dig them.

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Old 07-11-2017, 09:25 AM
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Something not mentioned is with Mixed mode on (DFX) you can pick up targets that your coil is NOT ACTUALLY over yet.. like at the end of a swing..
Bad thing is you can end up walking in very crooked lines following the targets..

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Old 07-14-2017, 06:19 AM
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Wow,

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