Big Boys Hobbies

River Raisin National Park

Collin1776

Collin1776

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
228
Hey guys the last 6 months I’ve made my way out to Monroe Michigan to metal detect the Battle of Frenchtown from 1812. Each time I went I called and made sure it was ok that I detected the open field that’s to the right of the park, and both times I was told it was completely ok. Today I went to call and was told no it’s not okay and if he saw me metal detecting he has “a few different ways he can deal with me”. He told me they own all the land from the park to the expressway. When I asked how long since this was a rule he told me it’s been this way forever. I’m just totally confused, is this guy lying to keep me away or did I just run into a few careless workers on the phone ?


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I got this from their website and it clearly shows they do not own the land all the way to the express way.
9f5aa507be442f2c949d39eeacdeeded.png



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That map only shows the boundary of the "PARK" not what land is owned. It is possible the Fed's own that land but it isn't part of the Park and/or that may hasn't been updated.
I find many, many online maps are NOT accurate or updated.

You need to find Property Deed info to know you exactly owns that piece of land. In Buck Co, PA there is a BucksGIS web site with property info. Might be a similar web site for that area.
 
It does not appear that the person you spoke with is correct, but I would be cautious when dealing with the National Park. Metal detection ban on NPS property is strictly enforced and the
punishment is overly severe, including confiscation of property including your car, fines and imprisonment.

I would go to the county or city records and see who the land owner is. If it is the Federal Government or NPS, then you are at a dead end. If not, the owner would need to give permission, and I would definitely try to get that in writing.

Keep us posted and good luck. I'm hoping it's just another Barney Fife with a new badge giving you trouble.
 
Mikey48 said:
It does not appear that the person you spoke with is correct, but I would be cautious when dealing with the National Park. Metal detection ban on NPS property is strictly enforced and the

punishment is overly severe, including confiscation of property including your car, fines and imprisonment.



I would go to the county or city records and see who the land owner is. If it is the Federal Government or NPS, then you are at a dead end. If not, the owner would need to give permission, and I would definitely try to get that in writing.



Keep us posted and good luck. I'm hoping it's just another Barney Fife with a new badge giving you trouble.
Click to expand...



Thank man! I actually called and got a different person and can confirm the first guy just wanted to ruin this metal detectors day because he has a badge haha. The second guy told me they’re in the process of getting the land but that as of today he has no jurisdiction on it and I can detect all the land I wanted to originally! Here’s to hoping I get some treasure.


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It's hard to address your specific situation and the answers you got regarding the River Raisin National Battlefield without knowing who you spoke to and what their titles are. That said, perhaps there was some confusion about exactly where you were intending to detect. But if it was definitely land belonging to the River Raisin Battlefield Park, there was no need to ask. A quick web search for "River Raisin National Battlefield Park rules" brought their own rules page up at the top of the list: Laws & Polcies: River Raisin National Battlefield Park. Lays out pretty specifically that use, and even possession, of a metal detector in the park is prohibited.

Whoever you talked to the first couple of times gave you bad info. That's one of the many problems with "calling and asking". You have no idea what the authority and knowledge level of the person your talking to might be - you'll obviously get drastically different answers from the person behind the counter at the gift shop and a park ranger, or even from 2 different rangers. Whenever "calling for permission", the hardest part is making sure you're talking to the right person. This is why I always look up the regulations myself for the public places that I hunt - it's usually pretty straight forward.

The equivalent situation with private properties might be asking a home renter for permission instead of the actual property owner. Or asking a farmer to detect his field, but he actually leases it from a holding company. With private property, it's imperitive to secure permission from the proper person/entity. But with public land, the laws are already on the books - it isn't up to any one individual. So, in my opinion, it's best to just find and read those rules for yourself - they'll tell you all you need to know without having to trust some random soul who happened to answer the phone on whatever number gets called.
 
Collin1776 said:
Thank man! I actually called and got a different person and can confirm the first guy just wanted to ruin this metal detectors day because he has a badge haha. The second guy told me they’re in the process of getting the land but that as of today he has no jurisdiction on it and I can detect all the land I wanted to originally! Here’s to hoping I get some treasure.
Click to expand...

Again, this is why calling is almost useless. Call 10 times, an get 12 different answers to your question. And in this case, you got really bad advice. I hope you aren't taking what the "second guy" said as gospel, because if it isn't land owned by the park, then he has absolutely no authority to say that "you can detect all the land you wanted to originally". If the park doesn't own it, someone else does - you need to find out who, and if it's private, ask them. If it's public, research the rules/laws governing it to see if it's prohibited as mentioned in my post above.
 
AirmetTango said:
Again, this is why calling is almost useless. Call 10 times, an get 12 different answers to your question. And in this case, you got really bad advice. I hope you aren't taking what the "second guy" said as gospel, because if it isn't land owned by the park, then he has absolutely no authority to say that "you can detect all the land you wanted to originally". If the park doesn't own it, someone else does - you need to find out who, and if it's private, ask them. If it's public, research the rules/laws governing it to see if it's prohibited as mentioned in my post above.
Click to expand...



You’re misunderstanding a lot of this here. Never once was I planning on detecting land owned by the park. The second time I called I got the cartographer through enough complaining who explained to me they are in the process of getting the land but as of now it’s not there’s.


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Collin1776 said:
You’re misunderstanding a lot of this here. Never once was I planning on detecting land owned by the park. The second time I called I got the cartographer through enough complaining who explained to me they are in the process of getting the land but as of now it’s not there’s.
Click to expand...

Yes, I admit, I don't understand a lot of this. Are you saying that you've been calling for the last 6 months before each outting because you knew the land was changing hands, and you were trying to confirm whether it was official yet? That's still confusing to me, because if you already have permission to hunt the field in question, why not just ask the actual field owner? :?:

Obviously, it doesn't matter if I understand or not - and my posts are easily ignored if they are off-base. If you understand what's going on and got clarification, that's all that's important. Hopefully you're now on good enough terms with the cartographer fellow so that you can simply call him directly each time you plan to go out and easily confirm whether the transfer of property ownship has been completed without going through all the drama with the underlings. I would think he'd appreciate your diligence to stay legal. Unless they are actively negotiating or have a set closing date on the property, I doubt it will be anytime soon, though.
 
Collin1776 said:
.... Never once was I planning on detecting land owned by the park. ...
Click to expand...

Then .... maybe this is a dumb question, but : If it's not owned by the park, then why (oh why oh why oh why) would you be calling them for any sort of "ok" or permission in the first place ? :?: :?: Why would they have any say-so over land that's not under their jurisdiction ? Sounds to me like you went swatting hornet's nests.

And now that you've called them, you found someone with an archaeological "bent", (not uncommon in the ranks of NPS) that tells you "no" . Well gee ... I bet I can find an archaeologist who tells me I can't detect my own front yard ! Ok, so what ? They can go pound sand.
 
if this is where you are detecting, Some is city, some is Homrich. I had a run in with Homrich before , with another forum member, by the lake, on a Homrich property somewhere else. They seem to be against anyone coming near their property. We were stink eyed the whole time we detected even though we were in the right and not trespassing.
 

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jbrow said:
if this is where you are detecting, Some is city, some is Homrich. I had a run in with Homrich before , with another forum member, by the lake, on a Homrich property somewhere else. They seem to be against anyone coming near their property. We were stink eyed the whole time we detected even though we were in the right and not trespassing.
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Thank you so much!!


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A word of caution for you.

I have heard of people being charge who were detecting next to national battle fields on private property even though they never went in the park area. The park people believed that the people were sneaking into the park area from the other property and taking artifacts. They had to spend time in court and if my memory serves me right they had their equipment confiscated and they had to fight to get it returned.

You need to be have writing permission with you or something that clearly states that it is public property when every are out that area.

Good luck

Ray
 
RayK said:
A word of caution for you.

I have heard of people being charge who were detecting next to national battle fields on private property even though they never went in the park area. The park people believed that the people were sneaking into the park area from the other property and taking artifacts. They had to spend time in court and if my memory serves me right they had their equipment confiscated and they had to fight to get it returned.

You need to be have writing permission with you or something that clearly states that it is public property when every are out that area.

Good luck

Ray
Click to expand...

Ray Ray Ray, let's get this straight: You heard of people who were detecting on private property, with permission , yet WENT TO COURT, and "HAD EQUIPMENT CONFISCATED", blah blah .

Ok, got a link ? Who did you hear this from ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it's just "something they heard" too :roll:

It's this kind of paranoia that simply feeds on itself. All someone ever has to do it conjecture that "you can be arrested, jailed, confiscated, fined" for nothing but having a detector in your trunk, while driving the interstate through a national park. And .... give it 3 or 4 "steps", and pretty soon, it's just taken as fact that such a thing ever happened. And when you look around, trying to get to the bottom of whether or not such a thing ever happened ... NO EXAMPLES ARE EVER FORTHCOMING.

And even if you DID have an example of someone looking over a fence griping, ... ok, so what ? This ... to me ... is sort of like if you read a story of someone who got a ticket (or harrassed or barked at) for nothing but a tail-light out. Jailed, car confiscated, roughed up, etc.... Can you look at a news-clipping such as that, and say "I will never drive again, lest I be roughed up by an over-zealous cop" ? No. Of course not. You look at a story such as that and realize it's exactly what it is. A fluke. We do not govern our lives by flukes such as that.
 
RayK said:
.... You need to be have writing permission with you or something that clearly states that it is public property when every are out that area....
Click to expand...

And no, I disagree with this too. Since when is it advisable for anyone who hunts public property, to get "their permission in writing" ? As if A) permission were even needed, and B) that it needs to be in writing.

It seems to me, that if you or I put a contract or something in front of a public servant to sign, that that's the FASTEST way to get a "no". In the same way you wouldn't need to do such a step if you were going to skip stones on the pond, fly frisbees, etc... Since when is md'ing so evil that it needs written permission to be done on public land ?
 
Actually Tom,

I had read it in newspaper article and was not told by somebody who heard it from somebody. I can not remember which newspaper or which battlefield/park was involved so I can not help you with the link.

If you read what I wrote
" You need to be have writing permission with you or something that clearly states that it is public property when every they are out at that area"

the reason I said this, is because Collin had been told that he could run into trouble and he would be dealt with. Now if he had on his person something that laid out it was public property or private property with permission, then they have no ability to do anything to him. If he does not have this then they could fine and or arrest him and then he has to go to court and prove his point. I am just saying that if you can head it off before hand then be prepared for it when the person tries to cause trouble.

Ray
 
RayK said:
Actually Tom,



I had read it in newspaper article and was not told by somebody who heard it from somebody. I can not remember which newspaper or which battlefield/park was involved so I can not help you with the link.



If you read what I wrote

" You need to be have writing permission with you or something that clearly states that it is public property when every they are out at that area"



the reason I said this, is because Collin had been told that he could run into trouble and he would be dealt with. Now if he had on his person something that laid out it was public property or private property with permission, then they have no ability to do anything to him. If he does not have this then they could fine and or arrest him and then he has to go to court and prove his point. I am just saying that if you can head it off before hand then be prepared for it when the person tries to cause trouble.



Ray
Click to expand...



Thanks for the advice buddy I appreciate it. I made it out unscathed, and by the time I get the time to go back out I’m sure they’ll already own that piece of land too, haha.


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