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  #21  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by A#1 View post
I guess we could also just have a free-for-all of every idiot that watches Oak Island or Youtube and decides to be a treasure hunter, going out and ignorantly trashing our public land and blindly raping anything of any potential historic value for sale on Ebay.

People need rules, simply because most are too selfish, careless, or ignorant, and willing to destroy anything they want to for their own benefit.
I am not sure if you're for or against metal detecting with some of your comments, especially with this post.

I'd like to say that I watch Oak Island and I have watched YouTube. I am even one who posts on YouTube and have a handful of subscribers who have made up the millions of minutes watched on my channel... But I don't see myself as an idiot because I want to be a 'treasure hunter'. I don't post about 'treasure hunting' and the amounts of 'treasure' I have found is pretty much none unless you consider some silver and a tiny bit of gold over 1000's of hunts, treasure.

What is "historic value" to you? Would an indian head penny be considered historic? It is of a value. I would consider any silver coins to be considered of value, but are they historic? I would say some are historic because of their age... Maybe you're new to the forum, and not to metal detecting, but you'll find at least two camps regarding what people do with their finds, treasures, and historically valuable items. Those who keep them and those who sell them. I haven't sold mine, but often wonder why I keep them. They're not worth a dime in my pocket unless they're sold, so they're just a collectors item at this point. But if I do sell them... I would hope I am not crossing the line by having blindly raped the land of an item for the value that it's worth to someone else for their collection.


Going back to the original post, most states have antiquities codes on the books. In Texas' antiquities code, it technically says you can't remove anything from the ground on state property. State property is considered anything not privately owned. Items could not be dug up more than a couple of inches and the items could not be of 'historical value'. No MDing in Texas State parks, obviously no national parks in Texas, and most county parks in the big cities (especially in Harris/Ft. Bend County) were recently added to the metal detecting ban lists. Very lame...

Do people need rules? I don't think they need rules per se, but education. And we all know where we stand on education in this great country, especially with regard to metal detecti... er.. treasure hunting.

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  #22  
Old 05-25-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCoilist View post
.... In Texas' antiquities code, it technically says you can't remove anything from the ground on state property. State property is considered anything not privately owned.....
Great post Coilist. But I am a little confused @ the above quote from you.

I can understand that TX state parks, themselves, might have some cultural heritage verbiage (as-is-boiler-plate for most state parks). But how do you figure that "state property" is not just "state parks" (to which the rule, you refer to, applies) ? How do you figure that "state property" is any property that is not privately owned ?

I disagree. I'm willing to bet that "Texas state property" is precisely that; Property owned by the state of Texas (and probably only their TX state parks, in-lieu of any cultural heritage issues.) Not other forms of state land. I'll bet it doesn't subrogate down to county or city land. Nor apply to Fed. land in Tex.

Because, otherwise, why is it that we have *no shortage* of Texas md'rs who come on forums, showing their show & tell finds posts, that they made from (gasp) parks, school, beaches, deserts, and forests of Texas ?

Or do you think that any old coin we see posted @ TX show & tell, is *only* being made from private land there ?
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2019, 03:08 PM
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Texas is not like other states. There is no public land in Texas unless designated by the state. There are no national lands unless the state approves. This goes back to when Texas won independence from Mexico.

If it is not privately owned land, the state owns it. So a county, city, or whomever who acquires land has usually done so from the state of not through private transfers. So recently, a case had come up against the state of Texas and private land owners including imminent domain for a high speed rail that was to connect Dallas and Houston. It became a hot ticket issue that started addressing this issue. Even if privately owned, there are laws on the books that allow TX to reclaim the lands with or without imminent domain in place.

Google “ Texas public land” and one of the first thing that pops up is “are there public lands in Texas” and that will give you a brief history on the uniqueness of Texas.

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  #24  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:07 PM
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Just saw on the news this morning...Legally, You have to take a 5hr class and cough up $175 for to go and pick and sell wild mushrooms here in Michigan...$175 dollars for to be a legal mushroom seller! Thats a lot of empty ditch cans at a dime per!

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  #25  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
Just saw on the news this morning...Legally, You have to take a 5hr class and cough up $175 for to go and pick and sell wild mushrooms here in Michigan...$175 dollars for to be a legal mushroom seller! Thats a lot of empty ditch cans at a dime per!
Seriously? What news station was this on? People are selling them like crazy here.

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  #26  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCoilist View post
Texas is not like other states. There is no public land in Texas unless designated by the state. There are no national lands unless the state approves. This goes back to when Texas won independence from Mexico.

If it is not privately owned land, the state owns it. So a county, city, or whomever who acquires land has usually done so from the state of not through private transfers. So recently, a case had come up against the state of Texas and private land owners including imminent domain for a high speed rail that was to connect Dallas and Houston. It became a hot ticket issue that started addressing this issue. Even if privately owned, there are laws on the books that allow TX to reclaim the lands with or without imminent domain in place.

Google “ Texas public land” and one of the first thing that pops up is “are there public lands in Texas” and that will give you a brief history on the uniqueness of Texas.

Ok, I'll bite. Then if :

A) All public land in Texas is "state" land (as opposed to city, county or federal), and

B) There's rules regarding md'ing on all said "state" land (eg.: cultural heritage, 50-yr. bologna, etc...), then

C) Therefore I'm assuming that no md'rs in Texas are hunting any form of public land. Right ? Eg.: Parks, beaches, schools, forests, etc... Right ?

D) Or ... if they do (gasp) find a 51 yr. old coin, they re-insert it back into the ground. Right ?

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  #27  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:51 PM
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Or an option #E :

E) Persons in Texas have/do find old coins, on public (aka "state") lands in Texas . Yet .... barring obvious sensitive monuments, no one cares one bit. And you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who cares less (unless you bothered enough purist archies or lawyers for their opinions on the matter).

Am I safe in guessing it's option E ?

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  #28  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCoilist View post
...People are selling them like crazy here.

I'll bet that if I looked long enough and hard enough, and asked enough plant-biologist people and lawyers there in Texas, that I could find some law that those mush-room pickers are violating. Shame on them.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:25 PM
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Ok. You win. I’m not here to argue with you. Look up the antiquities codes and amendments for Texas along with what Texas considers public land. In fact, call the railroad commission personally and have them tell you what’s permitted.

You’ll find that anything over 100yrs old can not be collected for any reason. And for your 51yr old coin, if it was unearthed by the removal of any earth, then it too is technically breaking the law. But as you should know that even a surface find of arrowheads can not be removed or collected either according to the law.

As you can see by my location, I’m no longer in Texas. After over 35+ years in Texas, I was over the bull (pun intended) and moved to a somewhat better state. Lol

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  #30  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TheCoilist View post
.... Look up the antiquities codes and amendments for Texas along with what Texas considers public land. In fact, call the railroad commission personally and have them tell you what’s permitted....
Sure. You/I can call desk-bound bureaucrats, and ... sure.... someone will likely say what you are saying. Such that no one can find a 101 yr. old coin on public ground, nor disturb dirt in-the-process. Right ?

Ok, then when we read Texas show & tell posts from md'rs, showing off their most recent old coins : Are they all coming from private land ? Or is it possible that option #E in post #27 is actually what's going on ?
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  #31  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Sure. You/I can call desk-bound bureaucrats, and ... sure.... someone will likely say what you are saying. Such that no one can find a 101 yr. old coin on public ground, nor disturb dirt in-the-process. Right ?

Ok, then when we read Texas show & tell posts from md'rs, showing off their most recent old coins : Are they all coming from private land ? Or is it possible that option #E in post #27 is actually what's going on ?
I would think it's quite possible that folks all over the world are commiting option E in post #27.

They are completely ignoring the law, and doing as they please, simply because they can get away with it.

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  #32  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by A#1 View post
.... They are completely ignoring the law, and doing as they please, simply because they can get away with it.....
"Simply because they can get away with it" ? I wouldn't phrase it that way. Because that makes it sound like it's thumbing one's nose, etc....

Instead I would phrase it: " .... simply because no one cares less. nor knows of such minutia ...." Like a "spitting on sidewalks" sort-of-issue.
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  #33  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
"Simply because they can get away with it" ? I wouldn't phrase it that way. Because that makes it sound like it's thumbing one's nose, etc....

Instead I would phrase it: " .... simply because no one cares less. nor knows of such minutia ...." Like a "spitting on sidewalks" sort-of-issue.
If you join a thread, with a topic specifically discussing the law, or, you have even simply heard any mention of the law regarding your intent....

And, knowing now, how that law applies to your actions......

You knowingly violate those laws in some form unwitnessed solitude.

Then, you would be thumbing your nose at the law, and doing it because you can get away with it.

Murder without a witness.....is murder just the same.

Ignorance is not a defense, and false ignorance would be lying, an additional crime, on top of quite possible many others.

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  #34  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by A#1 View post
.... Murder without a witness.....is murder just the same......
Correct. And all those Texas persons, that we have seen proudly post their show & tell, from (gasp) public lands in Texas ......... are guilty. On par with murder. Ok.


Thank goodness I did not find a 101-or-more yr. old coin, when I hunted that El Paso park back in 1981-ish.
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  #35  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:37 PM
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I was in Texas, visiting in-laws in El Paso, about 1981 or '82-ish. As a 20-ish yr. old. With my feeble Garrett groundhog : I hit several parks, and some old-town ruins @ the border. As I recall. I distinctly recall hitting some old foundation sites near the border. I recall getting a teens wheatie.

Which ... technically, at the time (and even now) wouldn't be over 100 yrs. old.

Ok, what do I do ?

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  #36  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Correct. And all those Texas persons, that we have seen proudly post their show & tell, from (gasp) public lands in Texas ......... are guilty. On par with murder. Ok.


Thank goodness I did not find a 101-or-more yr. old coin, when I hunted that El Paso park back in 1981-ish.
Yep, that's what I said, right?

Sometimes I can't tell if your joking....or if you're the joke

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  #37  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by A#1 View post
Yep, that's what I said, right? .....
So those Texans, who post their 100+ yr. old show & tell coins on md'ing forums, that were found on public land, are lawless miscreants. Right ? And some of them will even be upfront and say "found on the beach" or "found in a park", etc....

I wonder why no FBI people are trolling the md'ing forums waiting to crack down on these scofflaws ? Wouldn't be hard. I'll bet that if I did some key word searches on various md'ing forums, for TX members, that I'd find various bragging rights posts from Texans, who allude to various type public land finds. And all that you are saying has probably never occurred to them. Nor could you or them probably find any LEO official to care less.

Hence: I would not worry about this issue you are talking about. Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments. And trust me: No one cares if you find a 1918 wheatie or merc. in a park in Texas.
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  #38  
Old 05-27-2019, 01:01 PM
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This sites code of ethics.

https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=639


Those applicable to this thread, you can choose to thumb your nose at them and do as you please......

- Before searching public sites, always check laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern your hunt.

- Study, learn, appreciate and protect our heritage of natural resources, wildlife, and private property.

- Protect the metal detecting hobby by being a good will ambassador at all times.

- Report the discovery of any items of possible significant historical value to a local historian or museum in accordance with the latest legislation of your area.

- Report any criminal activities you see to proper authorities immediately. You are not a "snitch" or a "tattletale". You are a citizen with both rights, privileges AND duties. Respect them as they were hard-earned by many who came before you.

Some of us choose the high road in life.....obviously less traffic.

I'm done with this.
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  #39  
Old 05-27-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCoilist View post
Seriously? What news station was this on? People are selling them like crazy here.
It was on WOOD TV out of GR nigh on 48hrs ago.....they said a lot of fungi sellers are unaware of this ruling and just going out ignorant selling mushrooms willy nilly to an unsuspecting populace!,... who is enforcing this statute? I dont know ....I dont even care...Who has time for this? I got a trunk full of morels and a bag of ditch cans to offload..

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  #40  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by A#1 View post
....

- Before searching public sites, always check laws, ordinances or regulations that may govern your hunt.

-......

I don't doubt that everything you're saying is technically true. And to be honest with you, you haven't even scratched the surface of what *could* apply to our hobby . If you stood on one foot and squinted real hard.

It's going to get to the point where you might as well give it up, for all public land, in all state. Even for modern finds. Because I guarantee you that if I looked hard enough, and asked enough interested desk-jockies in the locales, that I could find things that someone could say we fall afoul of.

For example, lost & found laws , in all 50 states, have a typical threshold of $50 to $100 -or-more value, is technically supposed to be turned into the police. Hence all those guys you see proudly posting their latest ring show & tells on beach forums: I guess technically, they're all in violation of the code-of-ethics, unless they've trotted down to the police station first.

Do you see how it will never end ? And that it can begin to border on the ridiculous ?
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