Experienced Beach Hunters Only - Equinox 800 sucks - What should I replace it with?

[strick]

There are plenty of programs for the CTX where you can notch out bottle caps...you will loose depth but you wont dig many bottle caps...as far as the Nox try digging targets with stable ID's and you will dig less caps...If finding gold was easy everyone would be doing it lol...Me I want to go to Italy like that other fella on the board he finds all the gold.

strick

[Tom_in_CA]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
.... The CTX is biased toward higher conductivity targets like silver which is why it kills on silver.. ....

Yes. The "standard coin machines" (like the CTX) will favor high conductors. Ok, so what ? And yes, other machines, like the 800, can-be-set up to "favor" mids and low conductors. But IMHO, at the end of the day, I'll bet that the 800 doesn't get normal gold rings any deeper than the CTX.

You can simply notch out everything from corroded zincs and up, on your CTX, right ?

If you don't want to notch out highs, and want something that truly "favors" low conductors, then : You'd have to go with a pulse. For example: Pulse machines will get a nickel deeper than a quarter. Even though the quarter is the larger target. That was why .... all-things-being equal .... pulse guys tended to end up with a higher percentage of nickels in their coin-counts. Thus, in theory, would likewise have a higher ratio of gold rings. (If ... that is ... the myriad of targets were on the fringe depths of detection depth range.)

But of course if you go to a pulse, you'll loose iron ID

There are also 2-filter Tesoros that "favor" low conductors. But they would not do good on wet mineralized salt.

[KOB]

You responded to my post " you don't dig gold signals on land" and " it's too hot for that nonsense". Dude... you got to be kidding me. Why are you even doing this ? All these machines out there are quite capable. You even own a few. Bottle caps , pull tabs, , junk . .that's just part of the deal. You gotta dig some trash. I don't care what kind of detector, on land , on sand , on water , on air , whatever. But if you really don't dig gold signals on land...well... that's just bizarre ! Maybe it's time to go see your doctor or your proctologist. I hope you can figure it out and enjoy this hobby.

[rob.ream258]

I must chime in.…...but not with NOX this or CTX that...…I could add my "try this setting" but realistically nothing will beat thoroughly learning the machine and trying different stuff.

The last 2 years the metal composition of the bottle caps has changed....especially with Corona and Bud caps.... The caps with foil on them are becoming more and more prevalent and sound completely different than the others...

Old rusted caps / new caps / caps with foil - things are not like they were therefor will not sound off as expected!!!!

[vegasplayer]

rule #1 you want to find gold
all you have to do is put your coil over it..
it takes no skill just luck
no one gets all .. it is called timeing
some beaches have more high end people than others
if you check a beach in a poor area you will find junk jewelry & change
why do think all these flordia austrailla beaches have more gold people have $$$$$$$$$$

[FelixtheCat]

Originally Posted by rob.ream258 View post
I must chime in.…...but not with NOX this or CTX that...…I could add my "try this setting" but realistically nothing will beat thoroughly learning the machine and trying different stuff.

The last 2 years the metal composition of the bottle caps has changed....especially with Corona and Bud caps.... The caps with foil on them are becoming more and more prevalent and sound completely different than the others...

Old rusted caps / new caps / caps with foil - things are not like they were therefor will not sound off as expected!!!!

I too have noticed just as you that certain brands of bottle caps sound so good. Especially foil covered ones.

[lytle78]

I have puzzled over this question for a while - what are these “steel” caps made of. After wasting an hour on the web I have concluded that it is likely that they are “Tin Free Steel” or TFS. This differs from “tin Plate Steel” or TPS by the use of metallic chromium instead of tin in the laminate. TPS is what most cans were made of - TFS is used because of its superior anti corrosion qualities and its suitability for painting or other decorative exterior finishes.

Tin Free Steel

Features

TFS has excellent lacquer adhesion properties allowing use for food cans, beverage cans and general line cans.
Excellent resistance to black sulfide stain makes it the most suitable material for making fish cans.
Even when the same surface finish as TIN PLATE is applied to the substrate steel sheet,
it provides the unique surface luster characteristic of metallic chromium.

http://202.229.24.177/en/products/sh...og/b1e-006.pdf

[Bayoutalker]

Originally Posted by KOB View post
The KOB recently did a 6 hr hunt over 3 beaches. Total take : 17 cents. Yeah... that's right. One of the worst outings ever. It was then backed up by a 3 gold ring day....

That sounded like your were on a Texas gulf beach. That is until the 3 gold ring day, they don't happen here often or at all.

Cliff

[cutaplug]

Originally Posted by WildDigger View post
I am sorry but if you are not doing well with the Nox then you are the issue. It is easier than the CTX and I have found stuff the CTX could not determine if it was a good or bad target. In the water I have found small gold that the CTX or Excal won't even hit on.

I never said I'm not doing well with the Nox. I have found multiple gold and silver with it. I was griping about the inability for it to identify a rusty steel bottle cap that other minelab machines can handle easily and even an AT Pro can manage.

Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Yes. The "standard coin machines" (like the CTX) will favor high conductors. Ok, so what ? And yes, other machines, like the 800, can-be-set up to "favor" mids and low conductors. But IMHO, at the end of the day, I'll bet that the 800 doesn't get normal gold rings any deeper than the CTX.

You can simply notch out everything from corroded zincs and up, on your CTX, right ?

The CTX favors silver signals because of the frequency the coil runs hot on and because of the algarighms that make it biased toward silver targets. There is no setting you can change to help that. Same for 800 it is "designed" for lower conductor targets like gold. Put your CTX next to an 800 and do some testing on gold rings of all sizes and you will probably pee yourself a little. I'm open to other machines for beach hunting and glad the CTX is working for you but I have owned a CTX and it wouldn't be my choice for gold hunting.

Originally Posted by KOB View post
You responded to my post " you don't dig gold signals on land" and " it's too hot for that nonsense". Dude... you got to be kidding me. Why are you even doing this ? All these machines out there are quite capable. You even own a few. Bottle caps , pull tabs, , junk . .that's just part of the deal. You gotta dig some trash. I don't care what kind of detector, on land , on sand , on water , on air , whatever. But if you really don't dig gold signals on land...well... that's just bizarre ! Maybe it's time to go see your doctor or your proctologist. I hope you can figure it out and enjoy this hobby.

Not bizarre at all. The choice comes from a better understanding of the hobby, how the metal detecting game works, and how to achieve my goals. On land I wanted to find silver coins so I focus on silver coins and find a crapload of them = goal met. If you spend your day wasting time on 200 junk targets at a chance to find one gold ring then you are hunting very inefficiently. If your goal is to dig a million targets and find a variety of occasional good targets then more power to you. It's not my style. I like to focus in on exactly what I want to find and then find it as efficiently as possible. Last 3 hunts on the beach I got 3 gold rings, 2 with diamonds. Guess what the guy found at the same beach who I talked to. A bunch of change and no gold ring. Maybe he had time to dig 30 targets that day and he wasted many of those digs on pennies, dimes, and worthless coins lol. I dug 30 low tone signals thus increasing my changes of what I wanted to find = GOLD =)

Originally Posted by rob.ream258 View post
I must chime in.…...but not with NOX this or CTX that...…I could add my "try this setting" but realistically nothing will beat thoroughly learning the machine and trying different stuff.

The last 2 years the metal composition of the bottle caps has changed....especially with Corona and Bud caps.... The caps with foil on them are becoming more and more prevalent and sound completely different than the others...

Old rusted caps / new caps / caps with foil - things are not like they were therefor will not sound off as expected!!!!

I understand what you're saying about the foil covered ones but the 800 likes old rusty straight up steel ones lol.

Originally Posted by vegasplayer View post
rule #1 you want to find gold
all you have to do is put your coil over it..
it takes no skill just luck
no one gets all .. it is called timeing
some beaches have more high end people than others
if you check a beach in a poor area you will find junk jewelry & change
why do think all these flordia austrailla beaches have more gold people have $$$$$$$$$$

Sorry but if you think this hobby takes no skill and only takes luck then you're just wrong. This hobby is extremely skill based. Choosing the right machine is a skill, knowing your machine, knowing signals, knowing ground conditions and environment, knowing what equipment to use for your environment and settings, knowing how to hunt efficiently and how to not waste time, knowing where and when to go for the highest chance of finding what you want. Being skilled increases your luck...

[OBN]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
Sorry but if you think this hobby takes no skill and only takes luck then you're just wrong. This hobby is extremely skill based. Choosing the right machine is a skill, knowing your machine, knowing signals, knowing ground conditions and environment, knowing what equipment to use for your environment and settings, knowing how to hunt efficiently and how to not waste time, knowing where and when to go for the highest chance of finding what you want. Being skilled increases your luck...

Now that I can fully agree on...

[Mud-puppy]

In summation, know your rig, know your area, have a good scoop, listen to what the trash is telling you, then its a simple matter of digging it all and working the numbers...

[hiluxyota]

The ctx is just as good if not better then the 800. The problem in my opinion that you have is your a coin hunter. Gold is a totally different animal. You need to dig everything that you normally wouldn’t with coins. Gold is all over the board on any machine. 12/02 all the way up to the high 12/30’s. The thing with gold hunting is never pass on a low or mid tone. And never rely on numbers, that’s the biggest mistake coin hunters use when they decide they want to start water hunting. Go by audio..

[Irons]

Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
In summation, know your rig, know your area, have a good scoop, listen to what the trash is telling you, then its a simple matter of digging it all and working the numbers...

AT Pro's make Gold rings squirt out of the water. I catch them with a minnow net.

[Tom_in_CA]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
........ The CTX favors silver signals because of the frequency the coil runs hot on and because of the algarighms that make it biased toward silver targets. There is no setting you can change to help that. Same for 800 it is "designed" for lower conductor targets like gold. Put your CTX next to an 800 and do some testing on gold rings of all sizes and you will probably pee yourself a little.....

cutaplug, yes, of course, you can't "stop" a CTX from favoring high conductors. But you can edit out the #'s, so you don't hear them. I've done that before, on a beach that was so filled with targets after a storm, that I simply didn't want to dig high conductors. I wanted to up the odds at gold rings, when pickens to choose from are that thick.

And as for the 2nd part of your post : I propose that what you are saying would only apply to the very dainty gold. Eg.: things that read down in the foil range . Which would only be a small percentage of the finest dainty lady's rings. In which case, yes, I agree that the Nox has an edge. At making them sound bolder, getting them deeper, etc... And also true when it comes to micro-jewelry, like earring studs. Yes, I'll agree.

However I don't agree when it comes to the vast majority of gold rings. Notice in my claim that I'd said "normal" gold rings. All the gold rings that come in around nickel through tabs, I would say that there is no advantage of Nox vs CTX . JMHO.

[stavr]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
Before all the EQ800 owners mob me please hear me out. I am a lot more mature than my title. I think... Anyway I have been silver hunting for many years and would consider myself one of the best. My primary silver seekers are the ctx and etrac. My last push to find a lot of silver netted me 136 silvers in less than 3 months using the CTX. I believe the key to being productive while metal detecting is detecting efficiently. By hunting efficiently what I mean is:

1. Ability to distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets easily at any depth. This is accomplished using the FE numbers on CTX and Etrac. (detector and user)
2. Ability to define desired target and discriminate out unwanted targets with minimal loss of performance (depth, signal consistency, etc...). (detector)
3. Ability to identify targets using audio and visual information to “skip” unwanted targets. (detector provides info, user deciphers info)
4. Quickly determining if a site is productive or not and moving on quickly if it’s not. (user)

Using the above info I have had a lot of success and I’m content with my abilities to hunt on land. Now that my horn is tooted I could really use some help with beach hunting. I recently moved to Florida and would like to find gold. If life was simple I would be able to take my CTX and kill it on gold but life is never simple. The CTX is a great machine on silver but to say it kindly it sucks on gold. I understand why but no need to go into details on that.

Now I am on a mission to find the CTX equivalent for lower conductivity targets such as gold. When the Minelab EQ 800 was released I was super excited and optimistic. Now that I’ve used it for a while I am in search of a new machine. The main issue with the eq800 is that is cannot distinguish ferrous targets from non ferrous targets (ie rusty bottle caps). I know I know someone will chime in and say the following:
- You can change the hunting frequency and the numbers will jump. Yes this is true for a mode such as park 2 which works great on dry sand. Even using Park 2 I do not want to check every target by changing the frequency. That is extremely inefficient. Park 2 is also too unstable to get any real depth on wet sand. On wet salty sand running beach 1 you can’t change the frequency since it is stuck in multi. New and Deteriorated bottle caps will give a solid signal.
- You can pump the coil up and down and see the numbers jump. I’ve seen the Youtube video, try doing that on a 12 inch target. Any 12 inch target will be all over the place you say? My response - the CTX and Etrac can easily distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets at maximum depth capability. It is possible.
- The signal is different. I have seen solid tones on bottle caps, soft tones, scratchy tones, short tones, long tones so they have no consistency. A steel bottle cap can read #3 all the way up to the high teens on the eq800. There is no discriminating them out.

Now that I’m done ranting I’d love to get input from experienced beach hunters about what machine is the most efficient for low conductivity targets such as gold on the beach. What I’m looking for:
1. Ability to distinguish non ferrous from ferrous easily.
2. Detector is higher frequency so good on lower conductivity targets. Not looking for too high or I will be digging tiny aluminum pieces. Would like to find a sweet spot where it will pick up small earrings but not pieces so tiny my pinpointer won't even find them.
3. Excellent depth capabilities. If it can reach the same depths of eq800 I would be happy with it.
4. Ability to set discrimination to eliminate zinc pennies and up. I’m not interested in digging silver or coins. Just looking for gold.

The CTX and Etrac are the best of the best for land hunting silver. Is there a detector that is equivalent for beach gold detecting?

advanced user...
remember! scoop is the best discriminator of goals just dig everything except iron!
Good luck!

"So many wonders to discover
Are yet with the enlightenment spirit,
Experience, the son of painful errors,
And genius, the paradoxes' friend,
And accident, inventive god..." (c) A. Pushkin

[stavr]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
sorry but if you think this hobby takes no skill and only takes luck then you're just wrong. This hobby is extremely skill based. Choosing the right machine is a skill, knowing your machine, knowing signals, knowing ground conditions and environment, knowing what equipment to use for your environment and settings, knowing how to hunt efficiently and how to not waste time, knowing where and when to go for the highest chance of finding what you want. Being skilled increases your luck...

+100500

[goodmore]

I think the Equinox is a better wet sand hunter than the CTX. It hits smaller gold better. And when I say smaller gold I'm talking women's rings with stones. Dry sand the CTX because it is just better in the trash. Out in the water I'll take an Excal over either. So there you have it. Buy all three.

[joe4077]

Originally Posted by cutaplug View post
Before all the EQ800 owners mob me please hear me out. I am a lot more mature than my title. I think... Anyway I have been silver hunting for many years and would consider myself one of the best. My primary silver seekers are the ctx and etrac. My last push to find a lot of silver netted me 136 silvers in less than 3 months using the CTX. I believe the key to being productive while metal detecting is detecting efficiently. By hunting efficiently what I mean is:

1. Ability to distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets easily at any depth. This is accomplished using the FE numbers on CTX and Etrac. (detector and user)
2. Ability to define desired target and discriminate out unwanted targets with minimal loss of performance (depth, signal consistency, etc...). (detector)
3. Ability to identify targets using audio and visual information to “skip” unwanted targets. (detector provides info, user deciphers info)
4. Quickly determining if a site is productive or not and moving on quickly if it’s not. (user)

Using the above info I have had a lot of success and I’m content with my abilities to hunt on land. Now that my horn is tooted I could really use some help with beach hunting. I recently moved to Florida and would like to find gold. If life was simple I would be able to take my CTX and kill it on gold but life is never simple. The CTX is a great machine on silver but to say it kindly it sucks on gold. I understand why but no need to go into details on that.

Now I am on a mission to find the CTX equivalent for lower conductivity targets such as gold. When the Minelab EQ 800 was released I was super excited and optimistic. Now that I’ve used it for a while I am in search of a new machine. The main issue with the eq800 is that is cannot distinguish ferrous targets from non ferrous targets (ie rusty bottle caps). I know I know someone will chime in and say the following:
- You can change the hunting frequency and the numbers will jump. Yes this is true for a mode such as park 2 which works great on dry sand. Even using Park 2 I do not want to check every target by changing the frequency. That is extremely inefficient. Park 2 is also too unstable to get any real depth on wet sand. On wet salty sand running beach 1 you can’t change the frequency since it is stuck in multi. New and Deteriorated bottle caps will give a solid signal.
- You can pump the coil up and down and see the numbers jump. I’ve seen the Youtube video, try doing that on a 12 inch target. Any 12 inch target will be all over the place you say? My response - the CTX and Etrac can easily distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets at maximum depth capability. It is possible.
- The signal is different. I have seen solid tones on bottle caps, soft tones, scratchy tones, short tones, long tones so they have no consistency. A steel bottle cap can read #3 all the way up to the high teens on the eq800. There is no discriminating them out.

Now that I’m done ranting I’d love to get input from experienced beach hunters about what machine is the most efficient for low conductivity targets such as gold on the beach. What I’m looking for:
1. Ability to distinguish non ferrous from ferrous easily.
2. Detector is higher frequency so good on lower conductivity targets. Not looking for too high or I will be digging tiny aluminum pieces. Would like to find a sweet spot where it will pick up small earrings but not pieces so tiny my pinpointer won't even find them.
3. Excellent depth capabilities. If it can reach the same depths of eq800 I would be happy with it.
4. Ability to set discrimination to eliminate zinc pennies and up. I’m not interested in digging silver or coins. Just looking for gold.

The CTX and Etrac are the best of the best for land hunting silver. Is there a detector that is equivalent for beach gold detecting?

I have one problem with your analysis. I have gotten some nice gold rings while digging zinc penny numbers. And 18k, too. Sure most of them are zinc pennies. But, are you sure you want to give up that gold potential by not digging up zinc pennies?