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  #41  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by armyhunter View post
I'm loving all the back and forth here. I was festering on this ever since they told me to leave, so seeing all of the points of view and points made makes me feel a little better.

I thought about snorkeling there, and keeping my gear under water. They can't see me, they can't have a problem with it lol.

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Tom and I go way way back. I do things a little outside the box and we don't agree all the time but we respect each others opinions. I have had a LOT of escapades with officers and officials and some might think I go a bit overboard.

However I have never been convicted of a crime or found guilty of anything in court. Having been issued 6 citations while diving and detecting, I have a bit of knowledge. And since I was also a cop for a few years I know what they go through also.

Since I don't let police officers get to me, you know I wouldn't let a security guard get to me either. We are all on the same side, we just have different ways to handle different situations. Since I am not there, I can't tell you exactly what I would do. But I have had dealings with officers in Florida, Utah and Michigan and all have turned out in my favor so far.

It is silly that a HUGE corporation makes rules to prohibit playing in the water with a detector. I can understand during the day when tourists are out there but when nobody is in the water? Seems like security is bored and wants something to do. We all know there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. I am sure it wasn't meant for people that hunt at night not bothering anything but the fish. But they made a broad rule to fix any situation that might arise.

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  #42  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
.... It is silly that a HUGE corporation makes rules to prohibit playing in the water with a detector. ....
Yeah, you have to ask yourself: "how in the world did they ever dream up to prohibit this ??" I mean, they don't disallow public from their beaches, right ? So why single out this activity ? (that is so common-place on all Hawaiian beaches) ?? Not that they don't have that power, but ... you have to wonder why ?

If the question were about land sites, someone would be sure to chime in: "durned those guys that must've left holes". But this is beach sand, so that explanation is out. Or we might mutter "durned those archies", but this is a private site and modern created lagoon, so "old stuff" is not the reason. So what the heck happened then ? Did some md'r years ago go waltzing over beach blankets kicking sand in guests face ?

I recall a thread years ago about the cruise ship lines. Where someone (before boarding , at the time booking their vacation) asked the cruise ship people: "Can I bring my metal detector ?". His 'pressing question' went up and down the chain of command, and I guess landed on the desk of the cruise-corporation's lawyer. Who must've then cross-referenced to the ports-of-call they pull into. Asking consulate bureaucrat's there about this "pressing issue". And perhaps someone there (with some non-applicable antiquities verbiage) told them "no".

So guess what became the new policy of the cruise-ship line ?: "No detectors". Which hadn't been a problem at all prior to that. So past-guests , upon hearing this, were wondering "where/how did THIS start?". And quite frankly, who the heck frisks the luggage of cruise-ship line guests anyhow ?

So perhaps some guest at Disney resort years ago went asking "can I detect?" And presto, a policy is born ? Can't say for sure. Does anyone in Hawaii know the genesis of this ?
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  #43  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:56 PM
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It is a "high class" resort area and I believe all the rules and not just metal detecting are in place to maintain those high standards from the hotels down to the beach and hotel grounds. BTW, there are different hotel owners along the lagoons so it isn't just a Disney policy. For the record I'm not defending the hotels here but rather just opining about why things are the way they are.

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  #44  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by KENNE-BILL View post
It is a "high class" resort ....
Originally Posted by KENNE-BILL View post
.... in place to maintain those high standards from the hotels down to the beach and hotel grounds. ...
OK ? And ... ? What's the point ? I consider metal detecting to be the "highest standard" and "high class" The best respect that a person can pay to a beach is to metal detect it. Eh ?

Since when isn't metal detecting "high class" and "high standards" ? I don't consider myself or my hobby "low-class". Do you consider yourself or your hobby as low class ?
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  #45  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:13 PM
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To challenge Disney's claim over this area is going to take having a sponsoring patron(s) with deep, deep pockets, like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers, and maybe get co-sponsored by several metal detector manufacturers. Then, once you have your financial backing, you can hire your army of attorneys, (ACLJ?) and have at it. Money talks, and BS walks. Disney swings A LOT of clout financially, so having A LOT of money behind you is absolutely a must. I don't want to get this post deleted due to being political, but you have to keep in mind the politics of Hawaii, and the influence of powerful people there. IMHO, if you don't have mega-money behind you, you don't have a chance at winning. Likely just the threat of litigation with some powerful backers will get them to back down. I don't think it would be worth Disney's money to fight such a trivial matter (to them) but they may see it differently. Good luck to whoever wants to take this on.

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  #46  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Crackerjack View post
To challenge Disney's claim over this area is going to take having a sponsoring patron(s) with deep, deep pockets, like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers, and maybe get co-sponsored by several metal detector manufacturers. Then, once you have your financial backing, you can hire your army of attorneys, (ACLJ?) and have at it. Money talks, and BS walks. Disney swings A LOT of clout financially, so having A LOT of money behind you is absolutely a must. I don't want to get this post deleted due to being political, but you have to keep in mind the politics of Hawaii, and the influence of powerful people there. IMHO, if you don't have mega-money behind you, you don't have a chance at winning. Likely just the threat of litigation with some powerful backers will get them to back down. I don't think it would be worth Disney's money to fight such a trivial matter (to them) but they may see it differently. Good luck to whoever wants to take this on.

Oh ... sure... You can do all that. Or you could simply go at 3am, eh ?

If keen-bill is right that's it's an image of "class" and "prestige" (those poor guests on their beach chairs that might ... gasp ...see an md'r), then this solves that problem entirely. Presto, those poor beach patrons won't suffer the sight of seeing an md'r. Since they'll all be back in their hotel rooms sleeping.

Perhaps a lover-couple out for a mid-night stroll is all that would be about at those times ? So it seems you've fulfilled their spirit of the law, if "image" and "prestige" is what's at stake. Then they've got the effect they want then, eh ?
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  #47  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
OK ? And ... ? What's the point ? I consider metal detecting to be the "highest standard" and "high class" The best respect that a person can pay to a beach is to metal detect it. Eh ?

Since when isn't metal detecting "high class" and "high standards" ? I don't consider myself or my hobby "low-class". Do you consider yourself or your hobby as low class ?
I believe it is as Aquaman posted the appearance of scavenging, along these same lines I remember Dale mentioning that it was against the rules to pick beverage containers out of rubbish cans for those looking to turn them in for deposit fees.

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  #48  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KENNE-BILL View post
... the appearance of scavenging, ...
I don't disagree with this "appearance" issue that some folks have, when they see a man with a metal detector. But the same can be said for ANYWHERE we detect . Right ?

And sure, if it's along that prestige line of reasoning, then .... wouldn't that be solved by simply going when the beach is vacant ? Yes I know that if you put this logic past THEM, they would, of course, give the easy answer of "no". But realistically speaking (since the public is not dis-allowed from being there, and I am guessing there's no "closed at dusk" rule), then .... wouldn't 3am be fulfilling the spirit of intent then ?
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  #49  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:36 PM
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ehhhh, never mind. I already can feel the answer: "It doesn't matter". If someone's rule for their private property is "no nose picking", then it really doesn't matter if you discreetly picked your nose when no one was looking. The fact remained that you still picked your nose.

So on a family friendly forum, no one can say "out of sight is out of mind".

Fine then: Y'all stick to other beaches then. Problem solved.
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  #50  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:49 PM
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Yeah, the whole idea of MDers being bad for optics is confusing.

On resort beaches I've routinely been thanked by guests for cleaning up trash and sharp objects. I've even had swimmers or families playing on the beach bring me bits of glass or lost keys they found, saving them the trouble of having to go hunt for a trash can or hotel employee.

It's annoying that friendly people quietly providing a useful service to beach-goers are considered a nuisance.
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  #51  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View post
Yeah, the whole idea of MDers being bad for optics is confusing....
Which is why I wonder if this is the *real* reason for this. Oh sure, I don't doubt that "prestige" or "image" isn't the "go-to" answer that Disney will spout. But seriously, does anyone think that .... XX number of years ago, some Disney employee saw an md'r there, and thought "oooohhh, that's icky. That looks like a 'scavenger' " and thus invented a rule ?

It's possible, but I don't think so. What put this on their plate as a "pressing issue" that they needed to make this rule about ? For it to be "prestige" and the distancing from the appearance of scavengers, it would have had to be someone carelessly waltzing over beach blankets, and right through volleyball games, or something obnoxious. Otherwise, md'rs are A) a common site on Hawaiian beaches, and B) routinely ignored.

So me wonders if some genius hotel guest (or local person "just trying to be safe") didn't waltz in and start swatting hornet's nests to get permission. A noble intention (after all, it's a "private" beach), but then when this gets on their plate as something to give a princely blessing or denial to, then maybe that's what birthed this ?
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  #52  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KENNE-BILL View post
It is a "high class" resort area and I believe all the rules and not just metal detecting are in place to maintain those high standards from the hotels down to the beach and hotel grounds. BTW, there are different hotel owners along the lagoons so it isn't just a Disney policy. For the record I'm not defending the hotels here but rather just opining about why things are the way they are.
Ko Olina and others like these high end hotel chains have always looked down on any who are NOT guests of the resort. I've lived here in Hawaii for several decades and remember when Ko Olina was building the resort and the question of beach access came up. They promised that local people would have access then limited parking to 3 parking spaces that were more than 1/r mile from the beach. Then those parking spaces were re-zoned. Its not just this area that having a problem but all across the island due to the Hawaii gov't passing bills that have vague wording about access to such locations.

I'm sure it will take some one going to court and facing a judge to get the attention of those who can change the laws and make them clear. Until then there's plenty of rings in the sea elsewhere.

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  #53  
Old 05-28-2017, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Ok. So what's to stop me , or anyone, from going to each hotel up and down the strip there in Hawaii, and making "contracts" to find every other hotel's lost guest lost-stuff ? Thereby "owning the strip" (in-so-far as md'ing goes)? And I can, essentially, tell my fellow md'rs where they can and can't detect. Eh ?

Gee, if that flies in Hawaii (which is one of our 50 states with water/beach/public laws that are the same), then what's to stop me from simply doing that up and down the CA coast-line too ?

Something doesn't seem right about this .
Essentially its big money pushing out the little person plain and simple. There's always been problems with big money and the local populase here in Hawaii. It smells and as long as law makers see fit to publish laws that are vague with no clear direction this will continue to be a problem.

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  #54  
Old 05-29-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Numil View post
Ko Olina and others like these high end hotel chains have always looked down on any who are NOT guests of the resort. ....
Thanx for the added info.

Ok, if the issue is guests vs non-guests, and image that their guests might have to endure (prestige vs scavengers), then how about this solution for both of those issues:

a) Fine: You book a room. Presto: You're a "guest" now.

b) You go when persons (who, gasp, might see an md'r) are not on the on beach. Presto, no "image" problem at 3am, eh ?

c) Yeah yeah (blah blah) I know this doesn't solve the printed rule that Disney puts out. But that printed rule is not a public law, right ? That's a private place telling of their own in-house policy.

Thus , sure, just like playing music too loud in your hotel room, or bring a pet in when it's no pets policy, etc.... But all of those issues are just issues between you and the hotel . Eg. you get warned to turn down your music, or whatever. But in no way shape or form is this Hawaiian law that you'd be violating. Just as in you don't get "a ticket" for having music too loud in your room. Eh ? And quite frankly, if no one's there at 3am on beach, then who's being harmed ?
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  #55  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:10 PM
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Default Aloha from Hawaii

Koolina Disney hotel in O’ahu the Beach there I pretty sure it was made by that hotel maybe that’s why they stop you I live here on Kauai n so far no one bothers me yet lol thx aloha
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  #56  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatso View post
.... so far no one bothers me yet lol ...

Which simply means you didn't ask enough questions, of enough desk-clerks/lawyers there. Shame on you . Eh ?
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  #57  
Old 06-30-2019, 01:03 PM
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Stay in the water and they can do nothing to you. The ocean is not private property and if the physical remove you from the water you have a case.

I would invite all the drug addicts to go for a swim infront of their beach and let's see what they do then.

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  #58  
Old 06-30-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DbblTap View post
... I would invite all the drug addicts to go for a swim infront of their beach and let's see what they do then....
Well, first, here's what would need to happen : Those "drug addicts" would need to send email (or "FAQ inquiries") asking "Hi, I'm a drug addict. Can I please swim on the beach in front of your hotel ?" And then when the hotel says "no", then : They too can start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms.

Shame on them for not asking first, eh ?
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  #59  
Old 07-07-2019, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KENNE-BILL View post
http://koolina.com/destination/lagoons/ .
From their website;

The following is prohibited along the shoreline and on Ko Olina’s beaches:

Alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, pets, loud or distracting music, metal-detecting, fires, camping, tents, windbreakers, sun shades, bicycles, skates, skateboards, Frisbees, kites, ball playing, fishing, scuba, surfboards and other watercrafts.

Shoreline definition - the line along which a large body of water meets the land.

The way I understand this, don't do anything above the shore line. Go into the water where you are at least ankle deep all the time.

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  #60  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by armyhunter View post
When the hotel staff stopped me, i was at the waters edge, and when the ko'olina beach staff stopped me and told me i couldn't detect i was about 6 -10 ft in the water. I'll be giving ko'olina a call on Tuesday to challenge their BS

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DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. You'll lose the argument. Pretty straightforward reason why. Ko'olina is a MANMADE beach. Which means they have 100% control over it. Manmade lagoons and beaches aren't part of the Riparian rights granted with the ocean. They are notorious for kicking people out, and you'll lose any argument you decide to try to make. You'll waste your time, and you'll get booted anyway. Pick another spot.

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Ko Olina Resort. Ko Olina Resort is a 642-acre (2.60 km2) master-planned vacation and residential community on the leeward coast of Oahu, 17 miles (27 km) west of Honolulu. Ko Olina has 2 miles (3.2 km) of coastal frontage and includes three natural and four man-made lagoons with white-sand beaches.

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