River bed permission?

Skijak

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This may have been posted before but I did not find anything after looking... What are the laws concerning searching Rivers in Virginia? There are several in the area that have much history regarding Civil war as well as industry and transportation. Do property lines go up to the water line or split the river in the middle?

Thanks in advance.....
 
Actually I just found information posted earler in another thread....
If you have any stories or history regarding this please post anyway....
 
Used to be that the rivers and creeks where common grounds, but even if it still is where you want to hunt, best you talk to the surounding property owner, but that is my opinion, better than getting met by a shot gun.
 
doesn't this have to do as to whether the rivers/waters are "navigable" ? ie.: that you could put a boat on them or not? If they're just a mere stream or creek, then ........ it would depend on who owns the land they pass through.
 
I think the laws vary state by state.

well, and that would only be for "state" owned land, wouldn't it? So if the creek or stream went through city or county or federal or private, then that would be outside state laws, right? And the "federal" would be as to whether it's navigable or not. So if a navigable river went through private (or city or county, etc...) land, (the mississippi river, for instance), then you have a right to walk along the banks, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Getting permission

So I live in up state NY. On Oneida lake. There are two county parks on its shores. One lets you water detect. The other will not let you water detect. But they will let you do the shore. If you enter the water outside the park can they force you out of the lake?
 
So I live in up state NY. On Oneida lake. There are two county parks on its shores. One lets you water detect. The other will not let you water detect. But they will let you do the shore. If you enter the water outside the park can they force you out of the lake?

I don't know the answer to your question. But, ....... rules are often up for the discretion of the individual park personell, at any particular park. To a certain degree they can interpret as-they-see fit, various "fluid" language (vague) laws/rules. Laws, afterall, are often purposefully written vaguely, so-as-to-apply to a myriad of circumstances that could arise in the field. Because it's impossible to write laws/rules to address every conceivable thing that *could* happen everywhere. That's why there's catch-all laws that do things like "forbid annoyances", etc....

And oddly, your scenario seems to show that: You got 2 county parks, that would PRESUMABLY have the same rules, eh ? If they're both administered by the same agency (ie.: the county parks dept). Then you would *think* that the rules therefore, would be the same . In-so-far as working rules go anyhow (I understand park hours can vary, or one might have camping, while another doesn't, etc....). So I'm a little confused on your terms of "... let's you...". Is that "letting you" based on actual written rules? Or "letting you" because someone went in and asked "can I?" in the past ? And got a) one park guy who was in a good mood and said "yeah", while b) the other park guy was in a bad mood and said "no" ?

So let me ask you: is it anywhere written in each of those separate county parks, where the one truly does forbid detecting, while the other has no such written rule ? Or did this come about as a result of one of the saying "scram", while the other has no such bootings? Please elaborate.
 
The U.S. supreme court has ruled that all navigable rivers and streams are public , including the river bank up to the high water mark. But many states ,....like the one I live in follow "common law" , upholding and enforcing that the "water only" is public , and that the river bed in fact belongs to the respective property owners. People have fought this in states like Utah , I believe and won but at considerable effort and cost.

Depending on what state you live in the river/creek bed may be private property even if navigable , regardless of the federal navigable waterways ruling , ....its just a state thing.
 
This has been covered on the site before. I remember someone posting about a confrontation with a property owner. The detectorist stayed in the shallow water, the police were called, and he was told he could continue.

Perhaps a search of past posts.
 
Not particular to Virginia , but the river bed issue comes up a lot among fisherman , and here along " steelhead alley" from eastern ohio through penn. and n.y. it causes a lot of trouble and confusion since the states dont abide by federal law they enforce local or state law instead. But it can depend on what is customary locally or statewide. Most of the time and in most states , only the water itself is public , you can float down the river and fish all you want but as soon as you step into the water or drop anchor you are considered trespassing. Sometimes property lines extend to the center of the waterway and sometimes they dont. I like to see states rights and authority superceed federal ,....except in this case , it causes too much confusion and infringes on rights to federal waterways.
 
The U.S. supreme court has ruled that all navigable rivers and streams are public , including the river bank up to the high water mark. But many states ,....like the one I live in follow "common law" , upholding and enforcing that the "water only" is public , and that the river bed in fact belongs to the respective property owners. People have fought this in states like Utah , I believe and won but at considerable effort and cost.

Depending on what state you live in the river/creek bed may be private property even if navigable , regardless of the federal navigable waterways ruling , ....its just a state thing.

I am looking at property in Virginia. One of the qualifications for it is that it must have a creek or flowing water through the property. With that... one of the questions I asked to the realtor was exactly about this.

The laws change and can not only vary by state, but local laws as well.

Most property lines stop in the middle of the water source (River, creek, etc.)

The definition of 'navigable' also varies. However, the issue is that there is no definite high water mark in some places. Navigable in laymans terms is simply floating the river. Once you step outside of the floating device, boat, kayak, etc. you can be trespassing. If the creek is NOT capable of supporting a boat or kayak, it is deemed not navigable and is considered private property.

A BIG PROBLEM:

One of the biggest threats to this very existence of law is the issue of liability. If you're on my section of property on the river or not and you or someone gets hurt, killed, etc., then there are liability suits for the property owners. As crazy as it sounds, it happens often. This very issue is often why property owners do not like having people hunt or even metal detect on their property because of the liability. Waivers or not, it's an issue.

To the original poster, Virginia specifically is middle of water source, unless property owner owns both sides of the water source. So as long as you're in your boat, you can travel through. Remember, if you're in a state park or federally protected area, relic retrieval is illegal regardless.
 
here in Alaska as with most states the lant up to the highest water mark (or river bank) is state land.. I often look for rocks in these places.. If you can not find a high water mark that usually means you are in a flood plane so that is technically state land (its usually swamp though


The best access if there are no accesses it so find a road or section line that crosses the river.. all roads have easements of varying length that will allow you to access the river. all section lines have a 33 ft public easement... (I follow section lines a lot) to get to places if they are cleared.
 
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