Test bed, Depth issues...... (kinda long)?

Bajanick · Jan 21, 2019

So, after the last few trips out with my Whites M6 and new 8x6 detech coil any signals

over 5 inches are very choppy and erratic, Same with the stock and the 5.3 coil. The

signals are not repeatable doing a cross pattern and are not consistent. Every target I have

dug was 5 inches or less, the last few trips out because thats what is consistent and gives

a good enough signal to pinpoint. This is detecting in grass/dirt strips, in not very

mineralized soil.

Tonight I did a test bed placing a new quarter, nickle, copper penny and, bottle cap 7"

deep in moist soil and slightly stomping down the soil with my shoe. The M6 with the 8x6

could not see the quarter at all, the nickle and penny are just erratic blips, but blasts very

loud and precise on the bottle cap. I tried with the discrimination off and with the

sensetivity full and all kinds of other settings in between. Then, I get out my MXT with the

super 12 coil, Shockingly I get the same result, does not see the quarter at all :?:

then I

put the dtech on the MXT and same result, I played with all the settings and nothing brings

in the quarter.

Tried slow sweeping, fast sweeping, cross patterns, Batteries are new in

both machines and I am using good headphones. I remember getting a wheatie at 8" deep

one times with the stock coil on the M6 several years ago, but that was a very iffy signal.

Im kinda depressed now..............

Tomorrow I am going to dig up the coins, If I can find them :laughing:

and bury them in a

different location, in a different type of soil.

Martin_V3i · Jan 21, 2019

Bajanick said:
So, after the last few trips out with my Whites M6 and new 8x6 detech coil any signals

over 5 inches are very choppy and erratic, Same with the stock and the 5.3 coil. The

signals are not repeatable doing a cross pattern and are not consistent. Every target I have

dug was 5 inches or less, the last few trips out because thats what is consistent and gives

a good enough signal to pinpoint. This is detecting in grass/dirt strips, in not very

mineralized soil.

Tonight I did a test bed placing a new quarter, nickle, copper penny and, bottle cap 7"

deep in moist soil and slightly stomping down the soil with my shoe. The M6 with the 8x6

could not see the quarter at all, the nickle and penny are just erratic blips, but blasts very

loud and precise on the bottle cap. I tried with the discrimination off and with the

sensetivity full and all kinds of other settings in between. Then, I get out my MXT with the

super 12 coil, Shockingly I get the same result, does not see the quarter at all then I

put the dtech on the MXT and same result, I played with all the settings and nothing brings

in the quarter. Tried slow sweeping, fast sweeping, cross patterns, Batteries are new in

both machines and I am using good headphones. I remember getting a wheatie at 8" deep

one times with the stock coil on the M6 several years ago, but that was a very iffy signal.

Im kinda depressed now..............

Tomorrow I am going to dig up the coins, If I can find them and bury them in a

different location, in a different type of soil.

"slightly stomping down the soil with my shoe"

Pound those fresh buried coins down hard. Freshly buried coins will be challenging enough as it is. I have seen vids where folks DO lightly cover their holes covering the coins and get results, but I wager their soil conditions contains a high sand content.

I always pack the soil down with force.

Bajanick · Jan 21, 2019

Martin_V3i said:
"slightly stomping down the soil with my shoe"

Pound those fresh buried coins down hard. Freshly buried coins will be challenging enough as it is. I have seen vids where folks DO lightly cover their holes covering the coins and get results, but I wager their soil conditions contains a high sand content.

I always pack the soil down with force.

wingmaster · Jan 22, 2019

Fresh buried coins will be harder to get a good hit on, that being said my MXT with the D2 coil can get dimes all day long at 10"+ with a few being at 12"+. Your not going to get that kind of depth from the 8x6 though, the super 12 needs real clean ground as you will see multiple targets at the same time if not. HH

jmaclen · Jan 22, 2019

Hi Bajanick,
Your experience sounds a lot like mine except that I have highly mineralized soil where I live. My former M6 with the excellent Detech 8X6 SEF coil, stock 950, and the D2 would not hit any coin sized targets with any accuracy past 3" in my dirt whether they were established test bed or wild targets. Same for the MX7. I loved both of those detectors but they were basically useless where I live. My beep/dig Compadre is much more dependable.

I dug an 8" quarter today that sounded like it was at the surface with perfect ID using my Equinox 600 in freezing weather with 2" of snow on the ground AND I had the sensitivity at a little more than half way (15) in the stock Park 1 mode (not the deepest mode on the 600). There is no way my M6 or the MX7 would have hit that target unless I was using at least a 13" coil much less given a good ID. Super disappointed with both of those detectors. I'm sorry that you have similar issues. I would have hoped that the M6 with any 6" wide or more coil in mild ground would do well on a 5" target. I just don't get it??????

Jeff

Monte · Jan 22, 2019

Bajanick: Whites M6 and new 8x6 detech coil - any signals over 5 inches are very choppy and erratic - Same with the stock and the 5.3 coil. The signals are not repeatable doing a cross pattern and are not consistent.
Monte: Nothing too spectacular about that. I mostly search higher mineralized locations but have also traveled to and hunted in 18 of our contiguous states, including So. Cal. where you are. I've used many brands and models for over half a century and with all of them, in many locations, there will be times I could not/can not get clean audio response or a reasonably accurate visual TID from coins even at 3" to 5", be them naturally lost or freshly-planted test samples. Just too many variables involved to anticipate what we would hope for in perfection.

Bajanick: Every target I have dug was 5 inches or less, the last few trips out because thats what is consistent and gives a good enough signal to pinpoint. This is detecting in grass/dirt strips, in not very mineralized soil.
Monte: Causes? Possible detector malfunction; search coil issue; improper settings used; Ground mineral issues, even to include a site being too dry or too wet; EMI from some unknown source. More often than not, it isn't equipment failure as much as probable location challenges, be it ground or EMI.

Bajanick: Tonight I did a test bed placing a new quarter, nickle, copper penny and, bottle cap 7" deep in moist soil and slightly stomping down the soil with my shoe.
Monte: Problems: #1.. You were not getting any decent audio or visual signals at 5" so why plant test targets at 7"? You need to do OK at 5' before expecting magic at 7".

#2.. As mentioned by another reply, it would be good do stomp the ground enough so as to make the dug ground somewhat consistent with the condition of the adjacent undisturbed ground.

#3.. Test targets are often going to be more of a challenge as a 'freshly planted' sample because the ground has been disturbed compared with adjacent ground and that, alone, can cause problems.

#4.. Your four test targets includes a high-conductive Quarter, mid-high conductive Copper Cent, a lower-conductive Nickel and a pesky Bottle Cap. If you're referring to the crimp-on bottle caps, those are mostly made of a ferrous or magnetic based metal alloy and can be more 'errantly' detectable. While they used to be easily rejected with a lower Discriminate setting on a conventional TR-Disc. model, they are a problem target for modern motion-based Discriminators due to their man-made round-shaped design, just like many rusty washers, etc.

Bajanick: The M6 with the 8x6 could not see the quarter at all, the nickle and penny are just erratic blips, but blasts very loud and precise on the bottle cap.
Monte: The higher-conductive Quarter could, possibly, be an issue related with the Ground Balance setting used and/or the ground mineral make-up compared with the detector's operating frequency and circuitry design. If you are NOT using the auto-tracking but making a proper Ground Balance and Locking that GB setting, it could help.

The erratic blips on a 5" Penny or Nickel suggest either a too-deep fresh plant target or outside EMI interference as possible.

The Bottle Cap response doesn't surprise me as it is a ferrous target and has a different effect on the EMF than a non-ferrous, combined with the fact it is a man-made piece of junk in a shape that can enhance its conductivity. However, if the Bottle Cap was located withy a direct search coil sweep and the coil centered across the target, it would not have been a 'precise' audio response like a piece of iron or other ferrous trash. It might have been able to be pinpointed more precisely, but the Discriminate mode audio would not have been a correct response from that target if using a 2-tone or multi-tone mode.

Bajanick: I tried with the discrimination off and with the sensetivity full and all kinds of other settings in between. Then, I get out my MXT with the super 12 coil, Shockingly I get the same result, does not see the quarter at all :?:

Then I put the dtech on the MXT and same result.
Monte: This helps without going any further in testing because you have now used two 13.9 kHz detectors working on the same basic circuitry and using the same search coils and had the same results. That would basically eliminate a defective detector or search coil.

Also not shocking about the lack of a Quarter response because if the detector and coils are working properly, and if you, the operator, are making sure the units are GB'ed and Locked so as not to auto-track, then it is a ground-related issue or an EMI or outside your control issue.

Bajanick: I played with all the settings and nothing brings in the quarter.

Monte: Bummer! But that can happen at times due to courses or conditions outside of our control. And if you played with ALL of the settings that would suggest you used the Discriminate level, and if so, and you adjusted it to the minimum setting for all-metal detection, you would have heard any iron debris close by the Quarter. If you didn't hear any Iron / Ferrous trash close to the Quarter then that would eliminate good-target masking. Are you sure the area was free of iron junk?

Bajanick: Tried slow sweeping, fast sweeping, cross patterns, Batteries are new in both machines and I am using good headphones. I remember getting a wheatie at 8" deep one times with the stock coil on the M6 several years ago, but that was a very iffy signal.
Monte: Well, an 'iffy' signal from any detector on any coin at 8" isn't too astonishing, either. That's an honest-depth 'deep' coin and even the stock 950 Concentric coil might have some difficulty hitting it. Nonetheless, you have found a good target at 8" deep, so if you're not getting good hits on a 5" coin that is at 62½% of that 8" depth, then there are obviously issues that, for many reasons, you just might not be able to correct, such as an EMI source or tricky ground mineral challenges.

Bajanick · Jan 22, 2019

Thanks Everyone for your replies, and Monte, can you be a little more thorough. :laughing:

Trashfinder · Jan 22, 2019

Perform an air test, not in your house and away from any electric lines and buried lines. If your results are about the same as you report then you need a different machine. I say this in case you did a bad GB, or have bad dirt. Might also check to make sure your gain or sens is not at a low level.

Bajanick · Jan 24, 2019

wingmaster said:
Fresh buried coins will be harder to get a good hit on, that being said my MXT with the D2 coil can get dimes all day long at 10"+ with a few being at 12"+. Your not going to get that kind of depth from the 8x6 though, the super 12 needs real clean ground as you will see multiple targets at the same time if not. HH

Yea, I usually hunt very trash sites thats why I purchased the 8X6. I was hoping to get a little more depth out of the 8x6 than the 5.3.

jmaclen said:
Hi Bajanick,
Your experience sounds a lot like mine except that I have highly mineralized soil where I live. My former M6 with the excellent Detech 8X6 SEF coil, stock 950, and the D2 would not hit any coin sized targets with any accuracy past 3" in my dirt whether they were established test bed or wild targets. Same for the MX7. I loved both of those detectors but they were basically useless where I live. My beep/dig Compadre is much more dependable.

I dug an 8" quarter today that sounded like it was at the surface with perfect ID using my Equinox 600 in freezing weather with 2" of snow on the ground AND I had the sensitivity at a little more than half way (15) in the stock Park 1 mode (not the deepest mode on the 600). There is no way my M6 or the MX7 would have hit that target unless I was using at least a 13" coil much less given a good ID. Super disappointed with both of those detectors. I'm sorry that you have similar issues. I would have hoped that the M6 with any 6" wide or more coil in mild ground would do well on a 5" target. I just don't get it??????

Jeff

I am not getting any firm targets over 5 inches with the stock, coil, the 5.3 or the 8x6 Detech, although targets with the Detech seem to chime in louder and sharper.

Trashfinder said:
Perform an air test, not in your house and away from any electric lines and buried lines. If your results are about the same as you report then you need a different machine. I say this in case you did a bad GB, or have bad dirt. Might also check to make sure your gain or sens is not at a low level.

I am In So. Cal. and theres a wide variety of soil types here. I have done many air tests with both machines and coils and I get up to 8" on copper pennies and quarters ring in at almost 10" Most of the places I hunt are very trashy.

Test bed, Depth issues...... (kinda long)?

Bajanick

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Martin_V3i

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Bajanick

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wingmaster

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jmaclen

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Monte

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Bajanick

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Trashfinder

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