Another for T and V,Rifle?
- Thread starter minnowtizer
- Start date
minnowtizer
Senior Member
007tallguy
Elite Member
that's an odd looking shell!
i think those firing pin marks might be from the person being very persistent in trying to get it to fire! but it was obviously a dud, ha.
Pete
i think those firing pin marks might be from the person being very persistent in trying to get it to fire! but it was obviously a dud, ha.
Pete
Silversmith45
Elite Member
Some rifles had double firing pins. It could have been a dud and tried again. It was a rimfire of some kind.
turtlefoot
Headstamp Addict
Voriax will be able to give you more, I am sure, but I am going to take a stab and say this is a .41 Swiss that was fired twice. The .41 Swiss used a double firing pin. I am not familiar with the headstamp on this one. I will have to do some digging. Voriax will probably know it too though.
Doug
Doug
turtlefoot
Headstamp Addict
One source calls a shell with the same headstamp a "Swiss Made" Vetterli .41 Swiss cartridge.
One other site states it is an original "Swiss Army" round.
One other site states it is an original "Swiss Army" round.
Looks similar to a shell casing I found last year. About the size of a 30-30 rifle shell. It was a rim fire not made since the 1880's and one of the first rifle bullets used during the civil war. It may have been the last rim fire bullet made, at least of that large of a caliber.
montanamuzik
Elite Member
Wonder what the point of the double firing pin was? Was it just something that sounded like a good idea and would help sell the firearm.....but really didn't make a difference? I mean, either it fires or it doesn't....right? Or was there some advantage to two pins hitting the head of cartridge at the same time?
Very neat find! I think a pretty rare cartridge not to mention being in very nice condition and unfired, although two attempts were made.
Very neat find! I think a pretty rare cartridge not to mention being in very nice condition and unfired, although two attempts were made.
Voriax
Forum Supporter
Turtlefoot got it. The idea behind the double firing pin is that back in those days (1870's) the primer material in a rimfire cartridge wasn't always that evenly applied. So they put in two firing pins in order to add reliability, if there was a gap or gaps in primer material this system basically ignored one gap. But it looks like the system wasn't that foolproof. Although I suspect this round may have been stored badly as it lacks the wax coated paper seal between the case and the bullet. Round with the + headstamp were made in the Federal ammunition factory in Thus, Switzerland.
Oh and those firing pin marks are a bit puzzling too as I think Vetterli rifle had round firing pins. Don't own one yet so can't check right away...
Voriax
Oh and those firing pin marks are a bit puzzling too as I think Vetterli rifle had round firing pins. Don't own one yet so can't check right away...
Voriax
Longhair
Elite Member
Possibly an '81 Stutzer? I know that the '81 Stutzer had major internal changes, but I don't know what besides the trigger assembly that was different.
It could also be that one of the many manufacturers produced some with an odd shaped pin.
These are the production records.
Manufacture Dates: 1869-1874 SIG, Neuhausen (total 59,000)
1869-1875 Eidgenössische Montier-Werstätte, Bern (total 8900)
1875-1879 Eidgenössische Waffenfabrik, Bern (total 36,000)
1869-1873 Cordier & Cie, Bellefontaine (total 4000)
1869-1874 W. von Steiger, Thun (total 15,200)
1869-1874 Ost-Schweizerische Büchsenmacher, St. Gallen (total 8700)
1869-1873 Rychner & Keller, Aarau (total 9700)
1869-1873 Valentin Sauerbrey, Basel (total 7000)
1869-1874 Zürich Zeughaus (total 1500)
They were imported as surplus into the US by the thousands. Ammunition was produced until 1962.
Voriax
Forum Supporter
That long? I thought they stopped during ww2. Anyways those firing pin marks are look pretty similar to Henry rifle marks. Maybe someone rechambered an old Henry? Changing original Vetterli pins to there rectangular ones doesn't really make sense as you'd have to modify the bolt. Or if you don't modify then the tips of the pins would be sort of loose. And any competent gunsmith could easily make replacement pins to match the originals...kinda odd indeed.
Voriax
Longhair
Elite Member
Yep! And not all had the waxed paper patch. More modern production did not have it.
http://www.ammo-one.com/41SwissRimfireCartridges.html
Voriax
Forum Supporter
Heh, familiar page..I visit it now and then. I think the Swiss made rounds had that paper patch. I have couple rounds that are from the wreck of SS John Grafton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Grafton and one opened and one unopened box of Swiss made ammo. Those boxes are from early 1890's when they had switched to smokeless powder.
Voriax
Longhair
Elite Member
Then you are probably also familiar with this site.
http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/
They even have a good closeup of the bolt face.
Excellent information for any Vetterli devotee.
