Whites DFX 3Khz v. 15Khz depth in ferrous ground

local_coins · Apr 30, 2017

I have a question about the advantage of 3Khz over 15Khz in terms of depth in ferrous mineralization. Specifically - is this advantage ONLY present when using All-Metal (non-motion) Mode?

Based on what I have read, the advantage of 3Khz over 15Khz occurs due to two factors: 1. Where the Ground Balance is set, and; 2. The difference in target responses from high-VDI targets between the two frequencies resulting in less sensitivity loss from the GB bleed over when running 3Khz.

Since the Ground Balance feature affects Non-Motion Mode and the Ground Filtering affects Motion mode - is the advantage lost in Motion Mode since it uses a different method of cancelling ground effects and identifying targets?

airscapes · May 1, 2017

unfortunately I have never found anywhere there was low enough EMI to actually use 3khz.. I don't think the advantage is sufficient as no matter what you do, depth is deepest using 15khz only according to DDwthDFX.
If you are looking for silver and you can run in 3khz only at the same sensitivity as you can in 15khz only then I would use it. Around here 3khz is just a chatter box even with a pag at 2 and ac in the 40s..

BottleCapKing · May 1, 2017

3khz is better for silver in cases where the ground VDI is close to -95. Higher 15k for example can wrap into the negatives for quarters/halves/dollars.

You do need to ground balance even if you are in all metal mode.

local_coins · May 5, 2017

airscapes said:
unfortunately I have never found anywhere there was low enough EMI to actually use 3khz.. I don't think the advantage is sufficient as no matter what you do, depth is deepest using 15khz only according to DDwthDFX.
If you are looking for silver and you can run in 3khz only at the same sensitivity as you can in 15khz only then I would use it. Around here 3khz is just a chatter box even with a pag at 2 and ac in the 40s..

I am able to use 3Khz in some areas - mostly rural homes - with PAG 3 and AC in the mid-70's. The way that Digging Deeper is written, the advantage only seems present in All-Metal due to the effects of the Ground Balance.

I normally only run 15Khz but have been experimenting with 3Khz whenever possible. It does bring some new signals to the surface.

local_coins · May 5, 2017

BottleCapKing said:
3khz is better for silver in cases where the ground VDI is close to -95. Higher 15k for example can wrap into the negatives for quarters/halves/dollars.

You do need to ground balance even if you are in all metal mode.

Yes, Ground Balance is required for All-Metal Mode and in fact does not affect Discriminate Mode if I am reading correctly. Discriminate Mode is governed instead by the Ground Filter settings which does not appear to offer the same enhancements to 3Khz as the Ground Balance function.

airscapes · May 6, 2017

Ground Balance is required in any mode. It is the means of removing the magnetic minerals that exist in the ground from the equation. White call this GEB Ground Exclusion Balance or Ground balance for short.
So Ground filtering is how motion mode works.. has nothing to do with GEB other than the motion mode won't work well without a good GEB.

How do you test your Ground Balance, you switch to ALL metal Non Motion mode. So obviously having the metal minerals removed from the picture is just as important if not more so in Non Motion ALL metal mode.
To check your GEB:
Place the coil in the air, pull the trigger and listen to the threshold as you lower the coil over a clean spot of ground. If the threshold gets louder or softer then your GEB is not correct..

The 3khz with high conductive targets with normalization off will lower the VDI numbers which will provide more numbers between say a penny and a silver dollar so you have better resolution and accuracy. In an iron infestation, possible less wrap around false high VIDs. If you can get a stable machine in 3Khz

All of this and much more is explained in detail within Digging Deeper with the DFX.. it is just a lot to digest and some of it is splitting hairs that won't matter in real world hunting..
Hope that helps

local_coins · May 6, 2017

airscapes said:
Ground Balance is required in any mode. It is the means of removing the magnetic minerals that exist in the ground from the equation. White call this GEB Ground Exclusion Balance or Ground balance for short.
So Ground filtering is how motion mode works.. has nothing to do with GEB other than the motion mode won't work well without a good GEB.

How do you test your Ground Balance, you switch to ALL metal Non Motion mode. So obviously having the metal minerals removed from the picture is just as important if not more so in Non Motion ALL metal mode.
To check your GEB:
Place the coil in the air, pull the trigger and listen to the threshold as you lower the coil over a clean spot of ground. If the threshold gets louder or softer then your GEB is not correct..

The 3khz with high conductive targets with normalization off will lower the VDI numbers which will provide more numbers between say a penny and a silver dollar so you have better resolution and accuracy. In an iron infestation, possible less wrap around false high VIDs. If you can get a stable machine in 3Khz

All of this and much more is explained in detail within Digging Deeper with the DFX.. it is just a lot to digest and some of it is splitting hairs that won't matter in real world hunting..
Hope that helps

Yes, I understand all of that and that is not the core of my initial question.

To illustrate, if you have a good ground balance and place a quarter (or any other coin) under your coil in discriminate (Motion Mode) and don't move either the quarter or your coil you won't get any signal, hence it does not matter where the ground balance is set.

If you do the same test in NON Motion Mode you will get a signal for the quarter and if your ground balance is properly set you will not get a signal from the ground.

Digging Deeper is good but it does leave some questions. My copy is well worn and read many times over. Yes, this may be splitting hairs, however, these two modes offer vastly different performance options and I think it is important to fully understand where the benefits lie for each mode and/or frequency.

I am starting to think that anyone struggling to use 3Khz in Discriminate/Motion Mode to eek out a deep silver coin may be wasting their time but instead should be using AM/Non Motion to really get the benefits.

BottleCapKing · May 8, 2017

local_coins said:
Yes, Ground Balance is required for All-Metal Mode and in fact does not affect Discriminate Mode if I am reading correctly. Discriminate Mode is governed instead by the Ground Filter settings which does not appear to offer the same enhancements to 3Khz as the Ground Balance function.

Ground Balance affects both, because any gain you set is going to amplify the ground signal as well. If you are improperly ground balanced, your are going to amplify that signal to your detriment. A filter is just that. It filters signals. Ground Balance works to make the ground "invisible" so you see only good targets. The ground filter deals with changed in target signal v. changes in ground signal. THe DFX will pass the faster changing target signals and filter out the slower changing ground signal.

Also be wary of your SS as it is directly related to your ground filter setting.

Whites DFX 3Khz v. 15Khz depth in ferrous ground

local_coins

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airscapes

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BottleCapKing

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local_coins

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local_coins

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airscapes

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local_coins

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BottleCapKing

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