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  #21  
Old 02-14-2021, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
You were playing Russian Roulette with that. Because, let's just say someone, who answered your email, had whimsically decided "no". Then guess what happens ? : That same desk-jockey (who perhaps never gave the matter a moment's thought prior to that), guess what will happen the NEXT time he happens to pass by the yard , and see another md'r ? He'll remember the earlier inquiry and think "Aha! there's one of *them*". And start booting others.
I was a lurker on FMDF for three years prior to joining, and having read hundreds upon hundreds of threads, and I knew without a doubt that my post would be responded to by Tom_in_CA. In fact, I would have been somewhat disappointed if it hadn't.

Well, that "someone" was the superintendent of schools, who does in fact have the authority to say "yea or nay" to anyone being on school property. Knowing this, I sent my request directly to the person having said authority, rather than some desk-jockey. Besides, if my request had been denied, I would rather it be denied by the person who actually has the authority to do so, not some monkey on a zero turn mower, who simply assumes authority that he does not have. In which case, permission denied, at which point the superintendent would wholeheartedly back up the decision made by the school employee, though this individual is without possession of said authority.

I have read many of your posts, Tom, and by and large tend to agree with what you have to say regarding public property, and agree wholeheartedly in regards to public parks. However, given the day and age that we live in, what with school shootings, abductions, and human trafficking just to name a few, I feel that it is imperative to go through the proper channels to acquire permission to detect school property, though technically, yes, it is public property.

I for one, would certainly not want to be mistaken for any of those type of individuals mentioned above, either by the police, or school officials. I would hope that if the question were to arise, that the written permission I carry in my pocket while detecting the local school grounds, would at least identify me as someone who is authorized to be on the grounds by the appropriate individual who carries that authority and responsibility, rather than to be perceived as a threat.

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  #22  
Old 02-14-2021, 08:32 PM
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Nice response Huckleberry.

I concur with Tom that asking for permission is often a bad idea. But I definitely see your point.
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2021, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry View post
... who is authorized to be on the grounds ....
Wow, I guess the local elementary schools in my area aren't beset with : ".... school shootings, abductions, and human trafficking ..." . They're just normal regular schools where kids just ... uh .... go to school.

And as such : They are used by people who go there after hours (or weekends, etc...) to shoot hoops, walk their dogs, play ball, etc..... Does all those actions "need authorization" as well these days ? If so, then shame on those other persons ? I do not consider md'ing to be any-more evil that those other people's activities, who are, likewise, similarly ignored.

But if your schools are locked up like Ft. Knox , and as blighted and dangerous and crawling with lawyers like you imply, such that, sure: NO one ever goes there (lest they be shot & abducted and trafficked ?), then sure : In that case, sure, ask away. But where I'm at, they're just .... doh .... schools .
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2021, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Wow, I guess the local elementary schools in my area aren't beset with : ".... school shootings, abductions, and human trafficking ..." . They're just normal regular schools where kids just ... uh .... go to school.

And as such : They are used by people who go there after hours (or weekends, etc...) to shoot hoops, walk their dogs, play ball, etc..... Does all those actions "need authorization" as well these days ? If so, then shame on those other persons ? I do not consider md'ing to be any-more evil that those other people's activities, who are, likewise, similarly ignored.

But if your schools are locked up like Ft. Knox , and as blighted and dangerous and crawling with lawyers like you imply, such that, sure: NO one ever goes there (lest they be shot & abducted and trafficked ?), then sure : In that case, sure, ask away. But where I'm at, they're just .... doh .... schools .

According to the Revised Statutes of Missouri...

177.031
The school board having charge of the schoolhouses, buildings and grounds appurtenant thereto may allow the free use of the houses, buildings and grounds for the free discussion of public questions or subjects of general public interest, for the meeting of organizations of citizens, and for any other civic, social and educational purpose that will not interfere with the prime purpose to which the houses, buildings and grounds are devoted.

Hmmm.... may allow the free use... sure sounds like the state giving the school the authority to allow or disallow as deemed fit...

My original post in this thread was intended to offer my limited permission experience via email to the OP, offering that perhaps the email approach was a viable alternative that I had some success with. My decision to approach this particular permission was based on my understanding of Missouri law, and I apologize that it did not fit your “desk-jockey”, archie, bureaucrat, blah blah blah, no one cared till you asked” narrative. I stand by my decision, and will not be drawn into a flame war, especially with someone with whom I largely agree with. Remember, this is the “Friendly Metal Detecting Forum", and in the interests of keeping it that way, I will not be visiting this particular thread in the future. OP good luck in your endeavors and Happy Hunting.

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  #25  
Old 02-15-2021, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry View post
..... giving the school the authority to allow or disallow as deemed fit... ....
Huckleberry, are you aware that everything you're saying and citing can equally be said of parks ? That: Park's people ALSO have the latitude to permit or deny whatever they-see-fit, for the smooth operation of parks. So we don't disagree that public grounds (whether they be parks or schools or forests or beaches) ... yes... have duly-appointed over-seers to maintain law & order. And as I recall, you're on record as agreeing with me re.: parks and "look up rules for-oneself", eh ?

So, for example, a park's ranger can indeed come tell you to "turn down the boom box volume" (if they felt it was bothering your neighbor's camping ). But , as you can see, this did not require that you had to have their prior permission ahead of time , to listen to your boombox. It just means they have latitude to come out and keep order as they see fit. NOT that you need preemptive permission to step foot there, etc.....

There is probably similar wording for CA schools too (and every other type public land). And yes, I'm being friendly. This is strictly an intellectual pro/con discussion.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2021, 07:32 PM
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And post-script: I do not diagree that schools have a different flavor than parks. I'll concede that.

What I mean is : If anyone here is old enough to have gone to grammar school back in the 1970s, then you will no doubt remember when schools did NOT have fences around their playground/fields. And as such, the school yards (swing sets, basketball, baseball, jogging track, monkey bars, etc...) were just the defacto playgrounds, for all us kids. And that was where we went to play our after-school little league games, fly kites, etc...

And I remember, as a kid, that sometimes when we arrived at elementary school in the mornings, we could see where teenage yahoo rednecks had "spun donuts" on the lawn with their vehicles.

But lo & behold, in this litigious age that we live in , that began to change in the mid to late 1970s, as I recall (at least for where I'm at. Might have been earlier or later in other geographic areas, states, etc....). And at first, I thought it was because of the vandalism.

The reasons, as I recall, were mixed. But a big one was lawsuits: A kid falls off the slide, or out of the swings, and the parents sue the school. And sadly, as the American family disintegrates (more and more divorces and single-parent-homes), then custody issues go on-the-rise. So parents show up after school bickering about custody stuff. And yes, perverts who perhaps hang out at schools.

Thus, presto: Fences. And as you can see, NONE OF THIS had a SINGLE THING to do with md'ing, eh ? And not sure about other geographic locales, but where I'm at, all these fenced schools *still* have a propped open gate somewhere along the stretch. And , sure, there might be the *obligatory* sign that says something like "visitors check in at office", etc.... (so that if you fall off the swing sets, you can't sue them). And , still, despite the changes from the 1970s to the present, as I say, I still see people (gasp) who jog the track, shoot hoops, etc...

But sure, perhaps other areas of the USA are "locked up by Ft. Knox". And that someone's truly out there shooing people away, with zero perpetually open-gates, etc..... If so, sure, ask away.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2021, 07:45 PM
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And for post-post-script :

Originally Posted by Huckleberry View post
... that will not interfere with the prime purpose to which the houses, buildings and grounds are devoted....
Perhaps this sentence, in your citation of text, is to-your-point ?

Such that, sure, let's be honest: the "prime purpose" of the school grounds is for school kids to play at. NOT for a geek to metal detect on. Have I understood your point here ?

If so, then when it comes to parks of-any-stripe, where we both agree md'ing is a non-issue, then ask yourself : What is the purpose of a soccer field ? FOR SOCCER, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a picnic grounds ? FOR PICNICS, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a swimming beach ? FOR SWIMMING, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a campground ? FOR CAMPING, not md'ing. And so forth.

See ? In fact, I can't think of a single speck of ground, across the entire usa, where any stretch of field was labeled a "metal detecting field" (such that, ONLY THEN can you then metal detect it ). See ?
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2021, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post

Such that, sure, let's be honest: the "prime purpose" of the school grounds is for school kids to play at. NOT for a geek to metal detect on. Have I understood your point here ?

If so, then when it comes to parks of-any-stripe, where we both agree md'ing is a non-issue, then ask yourself : What is the purpose of a soccer field ? FOR SOCCER, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a picnic grounds ? FOR PICNICS, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a swimming beach ? FOR SWIMMING, not md'ing. What is the purpose of a campground ? FOR CAMPING, not md'ing. And so forth.
It says "...will not interfere with..." It doesn't say you can't metal detect. It says you can't metal detect if, in doing so, you are interfering with the primary function/purpose of the area. In other words, you can't metal detect on a school playground while a load of school kids are out there playing. You can't metal detect on a soccer field in the middle of a soccer game. You cant metal detect picnic grounds if you're doing it in the middle of someone picnic. You get the idea.
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2021, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FliesOnly View post
It says "...will not interfere with..." It doesn't say you can't metal detect. It says you can't metal detect if, in doing so, you are interfering with the primary function/purpose of the area. In other words, you can't metal detect on a school playground while a load of school kids are out there playing. You can't metal detect on a soccer field in the middle of a soccer game. You cant metal detect picnic grounds if you're doing it in the middle of someone picnic. You get the idea.
Good point.

Ok, and then ... presto.... md'ing not disallowed so-long as not interfering with those various stated purposes. Good catch.
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  #30  
Old 02-20-2021, 11:57 AM
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I would recommend asking in person for private property.

For public property, i wouldn't ask.

Most parks, public access fishing access, have signs with posted rules.

I don't see anything wrong with doing a quick on line search for rules, but i 100% agree with those who advise NOT TO ASK for permission for activities that aren't expressly prohibited.

Do people really ask permission to walk their dogs on school property if there isn't a sign saying "No dog walking allowed "?

Would i detect the 150 year old county DMV building grounds during duty hours? Probably not, because someone might "make up" a rule on the spot.

After duty hours or weekends? Sure. Why not?

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  #31  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:12 AM
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When it comes to schools and parks, my basic "rule" is that if there's a locked, or even closed and unlocked, gate (such as around a football or soccer field, etc) I won't go in there without permission.

If it's open then I'll hit it if I want to.

I WON'T go to a school when it's in session. Heck, I don't even go when it's OUT of session during the school year. I'll wait until summer.

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  #32  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:50 PM
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Any public owned property is fair game for me if no rule can be found.

Schools are early morning or late in the day when school is not in session. Sunday mornings are the best. Don't go to a high school during 2nd period. Use your head. Never ever ask someone like a superintendent or a principal they think they personally own these taxpayers owned properties. Like little kingdoms.


I won't climb fences or pick locked gates but if it's open and no one around I go for it.

Parks with out an expressed written in plain English language rule about mding I'm going.

Curbstrips in my area are public owned right of ways. I detect usually when most people are at work. If I get the stink eye I move on.

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  #33  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:02 PM
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Last year I wrote a letter to the farm company that owned a couple old home sites, but they never responded.

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  #34  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:32 PM
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Default Writing letters requesting permission

Originally Posted by SmirkAtTheMerc View post
Last year I wrote a letter to the farm company that owned a couple old home sites, but they never responded.

Send one everyday like in the movies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #35  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aeds151 View post
Send one everyday like in the movies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah!

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  #36  
Old 02-23-2021, 09:38 PM
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I have had 50/50 luck with sending letters. Am currently hunting an area that I sent a guy a letter. So, I wouldn't write it off. I would much rather have some one IM, Text or Email me then coming to my door, especially in the era of Covid.
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