Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Permission Advice - What would you do?

F

Fooleeze

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
340
Location
Copley, OH
So while the earth is frozen to the core this week, I've been spending some time on maps planning out my spring. I happened across a very large piece of property that had two home sites in the late 1800s. The area appears to have lost a bridge over a creek in the early 1900s, and the whole area seems to have been abandoned. It's all wooded now, not maintained at all. From what I can tell it's been wooded and growing now for a good 50 years.

Checked it out on auditors website, and it turns out it is all owned by the City! Yes! City Property!!! But here's the catch. . . when you drive by the area, the trees are just RIDDLED with "NO HUNTING" and "NO TRESPASSING" signs.

I feel like this was done because of hunters. And feel like there's a chance that just detecting could be permitted.

So. . . what would you do? Obviously I need to get permission from the City or Park Department. Would you write a letter? Would you call them? Visit their offices in person?

Anyone have any similar scenarios?
 
Fooleeze said:
... City Property!!! .......... RIDDLED with "NO HUNTING" and "NO TRESPASSING" signs ....
Click to expand...

I know this might be incendiary to some people but ....... since you're saying it's city property ..... those could just be the "obligatory" signage. So that no one thinks they're going to homestead the place, or sue the city for slipping on a banana peel, etc....

SmugglersBlues said:
....if permission is obtained. I would get that in writing.
Click to expand...

For a total stranger to put a contract-to-sign, in front a city desk-person, seems like the FASTEST way to get a "no". :no:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
For a total stranger to put a contract-to-sign, in front a city desk-person, seems like the FASTEST way to get a "no". :no:
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying however at the same time. Very easy for a city official to say "I never said that" and next thing you know you are jammed up with a trespassing charge. I just think worst case scenario maybe I'm jaded.

I just meant ask for something in writing to show if questioned by the police if you are asked why you are on posted land.
 
SmugglersBlues said:
...Very easy for a city official to say "I never said that" and next thing you know you are jammed up with a trespassing charge. .....
Click to expand...

I dunno why, but .... that sounds very unlikely. Have you heard of such a thing happening ? If so, please share. But I would think, odds are, this seems very unlikely. At least to the extent that I would think I need "every single yes" put in writing. "Lest they deny it later". I tend to take the first "yes" I get, and not argue with it :cool:
 
Search the city website for ordinances against "metal detecting" or "metal detectors", maybe search again minus the "s" at the end of "metal detectors". If you can't find an explicit prohibition on beeping, have at it and ask them to cite chapter and verse of the applicable law that prevents you from engaging in an innocuous hobby. The apparatchiks love to reflexively say "no", but, if there is no specific prohibition against it, they are just knee-jerk jack@sses. Go for it and let us know what you find.
 
StevePcola said:
Search the city website for ordinances against "metal detecting" or "metal detectors", maybe search again minus the "s" at the end of "metal detectors".
Click to expand...

StevePcola said:
... If you can't find an explicit prohibition on beeping, have at it ......
Click to expand...


I agree, but ....

StevePcola said:
.... and ask them to cite chapter and verse of the applicable law that prevents you from engaging in an innocuous hobby. ......
Click to expand...

The "ask them" part , is the devil in the details part .
 
Thanks for the comments. . . so I searched the ordinances, and I found this little snippet!

(j) Use of Metal Detectors and Similar Devices. No person shall use a metal detector or any similar device without obtaining a permit issued by the Director of Parks and Recreation

And I'm sure there may be mixed reactions to this, but this is promising to me. It 1: Gives me specifically who I need to talk to, and 2: Makes me feel like my request isn't 'out of the ordinary.' So what I'm saying is there's a chance.
 
Fooleeze said:
Thanks for the comments. . . so I searched the ordinances, and I found this little snippet!

(j) Use of Metal Detectors and Similar Devices. No person shall use a metal detector or any similar device without obtaining a permit issued by the Director of Parks and Recreation

And I'm sure there may be mixed reactions to this, but this is promising to me. It 1: Gives me specifically who I need to talk to, and 2: Makes me feel like my request isn't 'out of the ordinary.' So what I'm saying is there's a chance.
Click to expand...

Fooleeze: Is that ALL city-owned property that section (j) above is referring to? Do you ever see detectorists doing what we do on other city property, i.e., parks, playgrounds, etc.?
Again, re: section (j), I wonder how many permits have been issued by the Director of Parks and Recreation, or even if the current holder of that office even is aware of that ordinance or if he is, could tell you what the permitting process is, if asked. If you do decide to go to Parks & Rec office, have a copy of section (j) in your back pocket, in case they ask what the heck you are talking about. Maybe they can even tell you more about the reason for the "NO TRESPASSING" signs, but I doubt it.
 
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I took the liberty and simply googled 'Copley Ohio Mapquest'....I zoomed around by satellite imagery....from what I can see, No Authority figure has the time or inclination to be bussing yer balz and cuffingNstuffing you or any other old guy sweeping for Indian pennies! Not with the Akron Dope trade I 80 and I 76 corridor transects so close by...
Nobody aint got no Time for that!

I can imagine your fear at standing at the Copley courthouse busted hunting for pennies with no permission though!!...Its terrifying!

The judge walks in half drunk and says, "Well, what do we got here on the docket today?"...The Bailiff says, "Well, your Honor, we pulled a MS-13 Mexican drug runner off the interstate with a trunk full of fentanyl, a Wife beater from the apartments, a SS mailbox check stealer, a shop lifter from Walmart, a felon in possession of a stolen handgun, and this old Bastard who was Metal Detecting on Public City Land without permission!!" :laughing: see? Perspective!


So yeah..Honestly, Were I you? I'd just up and do it without asking any damned body for permission!...In the early Spring, give it a pass to see if its viable and worthy of the effort ...before the poison ivy and skeeters come on...A good way to go through Life is to not bother people needlessly..Most dont care if you dont ask...

If You ask, you back them into a litigenous corner! And at that point, what choice do they have? NONE! They are gonna say NO!

Dont be a Dik by forcing some low paid civic beaurucrat to do your thinking! You are a good guy right? Stop bothering people! Time and Gold wait for Nobody! .:laughing: Although, Metal Detecting public Property without sanctified permission will probably get you the electric chair...on account of if you are so crooked to do this heinous act, what else have you gotten away with?...
 
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Tom_in_CA said:
I dunno why, but .... that sounds very unlikely. Have you heard of such a thing happening ? If so, please share. But I would think, odds are, this seems very unlikely. At least to the extent that I would think I need "every single yes" put in writing. "Lest they deny it later". I tend to take the first "yes" I get, and not argue with it :cool:
Click to expand...

I have not run into it I have worked for the state too long. I have trust issues :lol:
 
Fooleeze said:
Thanks for the comments. . . so I searched the ordinances, and I found this little snippet!

(j) Use of Metal Detectors and Similar Devices. No person shall use a metal detector or any similar device without obtaining a permit issued by the Director of Parks and Recreation

And I'm sure there may be mixed reactions to this, but this is promising to me. It 1: Gives me specifically who I need to talk to, and 2: Makes me feel like my request isn't 'out of the ordinary.' So what I'm saying is there's a chance.
Click to expand...

get your permit and hunt city property until someone tells you different. The signs could be from the previous owners. Cities don't nail no trespassing signs to trees. At least mine doesn't,they use a $100 sign on a $200 dollar post installed by 4 men, our no trespassing signs list the ordinance too. If you must ask, ask if you can bird watch
 
Around here if you post a no trespass sign, it has to have a contact name and either an address or phone number to be considered legal. What does your area require and are you sure the city is the one that posted these? They may be a left over from the previous owner. Typically the only time I have city post No Trespass signs is to keep some one out of dangerous area or out of buildings.

If you ask you will find the answer will be no the majority of the time. Look at the ordnance for you area go by that.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's input. I completely agree with the idea that detecting is harmless, and asking for permission on a property like this feels unnecessary. That being said, I'm also a very low risk-taker, and the last thing I want is to be scolded and run off by a neighbor, city employee or police officer. And worst case, what if they try to confiscate my gear?

The nature of this property, the only places I can put my car nearby are very obvious to neighbors, and I'm certain someone would notice and say something.

That being said, based on the city code / ordinance I posted above, I did send an email to the director of parks simply asking the question. . . "What's the process to obtain a permit?" (referring the specific line in the city code). I'll post updates on this thread when I hear back.

Got me to thinking, instead of these cities that just say "no detecting" I'm surprised more don't establish a permit process that 1: Costs a little money, and 2: defines some 'ground' rules for detecting. I mean, would I pay $50 to have a legal permit to the city property for the year? Sure!
 
Fooleeze said:
. . . so I searched the ordinances, and I found this little snippet!...
Click to expand...

I have a sneaking suspicion of how that got there in the first place. And no, it wasn't because of "holes". But anyhow, now that it's there, I guess the origin is a "moot point".

And I see you've sent an email inquiring about a "permit" . Odds are, that whomever's desk that lands on, I bet has no idea of that buried minutia. Nor could they probably care less (for out in the middle of nowhere woods !?). But ... since you've gone this far, and alerted them to this "permit", here's what you do next :

Go to the edge of that forest (heaven forbid, not past the signage). Take a cheap silver ring, and throw it as far as you can into those woods. Then go home, run a craigslist lost & found ad for the lost ring. And then, when they ask "what's the md'ing going to be for ?" You show them the ad about the ring you need to look for. Presto. Problem solved.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you never run into anyone out there that "cards you for this permit/permission", nor anyone that would have "confiscated your equipment", etc...
 
Mud-puppy said:
.... I can imagine your fear at standing at the Copley courthouse busted hunting for pennies with no permission though!!...Its terrifying!

The judge walks in half drunk and says, "Well, what do we got here on the docket today?"...The Bailiff says, "Well, your Honor, we pulled a MS-13 Mexican drug runner off the interstate with a trunk full of fentanyl, a Wife beater from the apartments, a SS mailbox check stealer, a shop lifter from Walmart, a felon in possession of a stolen handgun, and this old Bastard who was Metal Detecting on Public City Land without permission!!" :laughing: see? Perspective!

.....
Click to expand...

Mud-puppy, no one here has your creative writing ability, to put things in perspective, like you. Love your wit.

As for this : Well ... sure .... MD'ing is as evil and horrible as the drug-criminal you describe ! And just as they'd "confiscate" his drug-running vehicle, etc... SO TOO would they "confiscate metal detectors" (since they are on par with the same evil, after all). How do we know this imminent risk ? By the # of times it comes up on forums. My favorite is the "hands chopped off" for detecting in any country that doesn't speak English ! :shock:
 
Ok, I gotta ask, I'm still pretty young around here. . . I love the passion and creativity you put into your posts, and I'm full of sarcasm and dry humor myself, but I'm having a little trouble reading you on this one. . . an honest question here:

Is there any trend of gear being confiscated by law enforcement?



Tom_in_CA said:
Mud-puppy, no one here has your creative writing ability, to put things in perspective, like you. Love your wit.

As for this : Well ... sure .... MD'ing is as evil and horrible as the drug-criminal you describe ! And just as they'd "confiscate" his drug-running vehicle, etc... SO TOO would they "confiscate metal detectors" (since they are on par with the same evil, after all). How do we know this imminent risk ? By the # of times it comes up on forums. My favorite is the "hands chopped off" for detecting in any country that doesn't speak English ! :shock:
Click to expand...
 
Fooleeze said:
...Is there any trend of gear being confiscated by law enforcement?
Click to expand...

Good question. Based on the amount of times "confiscations" get tossed out there in md'ing discussions, as something that is an imminent fear we need to leery of : You'd THINK it's a "trend". Right ? A common occurrence , Eh ?

Then you ask those persons, who toss out this supposed risk: "Can you cite any examples". And then: All you will hear is the sound of crickets.

And if any of them can ever come back and cite any "arrest" or "ticket" or "confiscation", it will invariably be for someone who can't take a warning. Or being obnoxious in some way. Or someone night-sneaking an obvious historic sensitive monument. Not innocuous parks, beaches, forests-in-middle-of-nowhere, etc.....
 
I came across a post on facebook where a guy askef for permission to search for a lost ring in the beach of a National park.(Point Reyes)
He got permission and a park ranger reportedly had to be with the detectorist while searching......I just wanted to mention this.:D
 
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