Is Your Detector HOT !!!

pescadore · Mar 9, 2015

I spoke with a dealer last week about a possible purchase of a new detector. I was lucky enough to find a used one but I had an interesting conversation with the dealer. It was his opinion as well as mine that some detectors of the same make and model just seem hotter than others. I'm not talking about a lot of difference but maybe that extra half or one inch in depth with the same settings. I have had duplicates of several different detectors and have had the opportunity to have one or two of those "hot" detectors. The dealer told me a story about one of his customers that would try 3 or more of the same detector out before he finalized his purchase because of the difference in each one. All this got me wondering is anyone else has experienced this. Your input would be appreciated.
Pesc

CoiltoSoil · Mar 9, 2015

pescadore said:
I spoke with a dealer last week about a possible purchase of a new detector. I was lucky enough to find a used one but I had an interesting conversation with the dealer. It was his opinion as well as mine that some detectors of the same make and model just seem hotter than others. I'm not talking about a lot of difference but maybe that extra half or one inch in depth with the same settings. I have had duplicates of several different detectors and have had the opportunity to have one or two of those "hot" detectors. The dealer told me a story about one of his customers that would try 3 or more of the same detector out before he finalized his purchase because of the difference in each one. All this got me wondering is anyone else has experienced this. Your input would be appreciated.
Pesc

That's always been said about the old CZ3d's vs. the new ones. I guess it depends the plant they were made in, who made them, who tuned them, how closely specs were met, and if nit was made on a Tuesday or Friday. No two detectors are exactly the same, a minor difference in a solder could make a different in performance, as well as calibration.

hawgdawg · Mar 9, 2015

I haven't really put a lot of thought in it , but I guess all that makes sense , a 1/8 of a turn on screw could make a good bit of difference .

DaviDs · Mar 9, 2015

CoiltoSoil said:
That's always been said about the old CZ3d's vs. the new ones.

As CoiltoSoil mentioned, CZ3D's and other analog detectors are calibrated to to a tolerance during the manufacturing process. This is explained in great detail on Tom Dankowski's website (aka, NASATom). Tom is a former Fisher exec and renown master tuner of analog Fisher machines. In short, as the tolerances are narrowed, the detector will have greater accuracy ID'g a target and achieve greater depth. Tom has case studies that show (2) machines with sequential serial numbers (made one after the other) but one machine had nearly 1" greater depth than the other.

The second thing to consider is each internal part has a tolerance from its manufacturer. So, Tom could also tune (2) machines to identical tolerances to realize one machine still has greater depth or better accuracy. With that said, the quality control measures implemented to create a fully assembled metal detector are likely to have a variance, but these combined factors should make such variances marginal.

With modern, digital machines, hot machines are possible but it is my opinion that people inappropriately or over use the adjective "hot" to describe their love of one machine over a different make/model.

Cherry Picker · Mar 9, 2015

I agree pescadore. I've owned a lot of the same detector models and have found a variance in performance. Sometimes to a substantial degree.

I'm on my 6th Deus, I've owned 4 V3i's, 5 E-Trac's, 6 DFX's, 4 AT Pro's and 3 CTX's.

pescadore · Mar 9, 2015

Detector said:
I agree pescadore. I've owned a lot of the same detector models and have found a variance in performance. Sometimes to a substantial degree.

I'm on my 6th Deus, I've owned 4 V3i's, 5 E-Trac's, 6 DFX's, 4 AT Pro's and 3 CTX's.

It only took 3 Deus to decide I wasn't crazy about them. Seems like a lot of others like them and it defintitely had some things I like but just never could completely gel with it. I had a hot Troy Shadow X2 that I wish I had never sold but that's water under the bridge now. I'm broke !!

papaharley03 · Mar 9, 2015

Oh man, I thought this was going to be a thread about stolen detectors. :lol:

I would agree that it's very reasonable. I know someone who does the same thing with high end video camera lenses. He will test several of the same lens model and keep the one that has the best image sharpness.

Papa

Dig-Dug · Mar 9, 2015

Different firmware versions will make a difference in depth also.

tnsharpshooter · Mar 9, 2015

pescadore said:
I spoke with a dealer last week about a possible purchase of a new detector. I was lucky enough to find a used one but I had an interesting conversation with the dealer. It was his opinion as well as mine that some detectors of the same make and model just seem hotter than others. I'm not talking about a lot of difference but maybe that extra half or one inch in depth with the same settings. I have had duplicates of several different detectors and have had the opportunity to have one or two of those "hot" detectors. The dealer told me a story about one of his customers that would try 3 or more of the same detector out before he finalized his purchase because of the difference in each one. All this got me wondering is anyone else has experienced this. Your input would be appreciated.
Pesc

I agree some may be hotter than others. With all the variances with components and yes some units have internal adjustments as well. This was just recently posted by Mr Dankowski on his forum concerning testing F75LTD2, and it could also shed some light on why some units appear to be hotter than other like units. This is only a part from his post:

ALSO noteworthy: In my test-garden...... with the new LTD2....................... with freq selection F7, I encountered a 2.7" depth loss difference on a clad dime.... when compared to the other (F1-F6) freq's/channels. There was NO audible EMI on any one (of the 7) channels. The next day, F4 was the least-performing channel..... and F7 was one of the better performing channels. Soooooo....... How would you know that you are operating on a 'reduced performance' channel!
Moral of the story = Do not think... for one moment................ that EMI & silent EMI does not affect other detectors!

Crumble · Mar 9, 2015

It's well known that some CZ21's are hotter than others. Some can run at full sensitivity, and some can only run at 5 sensitivity or so. Not sure which ones are hotter though... mine can run at full sensitivity.

tinsmith · Mar 10, 2015

Maybe that's why I've read posts where the digger coil on the 705 gave people 8" on a US quarter. Air tests. The reviews I see online the same.
Most I got with mine was 6" and I can't test it near home amymore because the cable CO. put a wifi booster in. Machine gos nuts and got 4" now in air on US quarter w digger coil.
Weather permitting I'm going out to an area away from wires and wifi and retest.(to be fair)
Anyway, even when running stable last yr. I never got more than 6"
Hmmmm? If 8" is true I'm not very happy.

Crumble · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Maybe that's why I've read posts where the digger coil on the 705 gave people 8" on a US quarter. Air tests. The reviews I see online the same.
Most I got with mine was 6" and I can't test it near home amymore because the cable CO. put a wifi booster in. Machine gos nuts and got 4" now in air on US quarter w digger coil.
Weather permitting I'm going out to an area away from wires and wifi and retest.(to be fair)
Anyway, even when running stable last yr. I never got more than 6"
Hmmmm? If 8" is true I'm not very happy.

You should be getting at least 8-10" on a quarter in an air test with pretty much any machine. My old Fisher F2 hit a quarter at 8" in an air test.

May need to use that warranty.

CoiltoSoil · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Maybe that's why I've read posts where the digger coil on the 705 gave people 8" on a US quarter. Air tests. The reviews I see online the same.
Most I got with mine was 6" and I can't test it near home amymore because the cable CO. put a wifi booster in. Machine gos nuts and got 4" now in air on US quarter w digger coil.
Weather permitting I'm going out to an area away from wires and wifi and retest.(to be fair)
Anyway, even when running stable last yr. I never got more than 6"
Hmmmm? If 8" is true I'm not very happy.

With an air test 8in should be no problem. People sometimes exaggerate depths but most detectors should easily hit a quarter at 8in, I have a video on here of my V3i doing 14in on a quarter with the stock coil. Even my Classic ID did 8in on quarters in air test with the stock 8in coil. In the ground is another story though. My E-trac, and especially my F75 go nuts when trying to air test in the house, I have a computer, tv, xbox, wifi router, cell phone, and all types of electronics in my small room, the V3i seems to handle it well for some reason, I can almost max it out and still remain fairly stable.

pescadore · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Maybe that's why I've read posts where the digger coil on the 705 gave people 8" on a US quarter. Air tests. The reviews I see online the same.
Most I got with mine was 6" and I can't test it near home amymore because the cable CO. put a wifi booster in. Machine gos nuts and got 4" now in air on US quarter w digger coil.
Weather permitting I'm going out to an area away from wires and wifi and retest.(to be fair)
Anyway, even when running stable last yr. I never got more than 6"
Hmmmm? If 8" is true I'm not very happy.

What kind of depth do you get with the 5x10 HF on an airtest?

tinsmith · Mar 10, 2015

pescadore said:
What kind of depth do you get with the 5x10 HF on an airtest?

Somethings wrong because I got only about 4.5" with the 5x10 hf coil. I was able to go outside and get far enough to get better stability( still don't trust all the wifi around these condos) and no help. Still way too much snow to hunt but...
I'm going tommorow out away in a park or something so I'm away from buildings and try again. I'm worried because I never air tested past 6" with the digger back when I got it last spring. I had it bass ackwards and thought you get deeper in the ground! I swear I dug copper pennies 8" with it but not often. Then I've been told coils cannot go deeper than their width? So you see I wasn't scared about the 6" digger air test at 6" when it was new.

pescadore · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Somethings wrong because I got only about 4.5" with the 5x10 hf coil. I was able to go outside and get far enough to get better stability( still don't trust all the wifi around these condos) and no help. Still way too much snow to hunt but...
I'm going tommorow out away in a park or something so I'm away from buildings and try again. I'm worried because I never air tested past 6" with the digger back when I got it last spring. I had it bass ackwards and thought you get deeper in the ground! I swear I dug copper pennies 8" with it but not often. Then I've been told coils cannot go deeper than their width? So you see I wasn't scared about the 6" digger air test at 6" when it was new.

I would definitely try a different area. You should be getting better depth than that on an air test. That is not true that coils can't go deeper than their width in air testing. I can ID a dime at 8 inches on an air test with my 6X8 SEF coil on my M6. I just tried it again to verify.

CoiltoSoil · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Somethings wrong because I got only about 4.5" with the 5x10 hf coil. I was able to go outside and get far enough to get better stability( still don't trust all the wifi around these condos) and no help. Still way too much snow to hunt but...
I'm going tommorow out away in a park or something so I'm away from buildings and try again. I'm worried because I never air tested past 6" with the digger back when I got it last spring. I had it bass ackwards and thought you get deeper in the ground! I swear I dug copper pennies 8" with it but not often. Then I've been told coils cannot go deeper than their width? So you see I wasn't scared about the 6" digger air test at 6" when it was new.

Coils can go deeper than their width depending on the target size. I can go deeper than 10in for example on my 10in coil for say a quarter sized target or larger. It sounds like something is either wrong with your coil or detector, try another coil? Air test aren't accurate as far as how deep a target can be found in the ground but it will give you a maximum indication of how deep you can find a specific size target in the ground. For example if you can't find a quarter at 6in in the air, you won't get a quarter 6in in the ground UNLESS it has a halo effect, but that deals with target size.

tinsmith · Mar 10, 2015

Tried both coils. Digger and 5x10 hf and niether can air test a quarter at 6". I'm definately going to get away from any possible interference and try. What bothers me is before they boosted the wifi signal in the condo I could run the 705 very stable in my bedroom. I never got past 6" with either coil. I excepted this thinking these coils are not that big. Figured they're deeper in ground. This is my first mid level machine. Had a simple $150 bh before. I kept seeing people posting much deeper with the 6" (recently).

CoiltoSoil · Mar 10, 2015

tinsmith said:
Tried both coils. Digger and 5x10 hf and niether can air test a quarter at 6". I'm definately going to get away from any possible interference and try. What bothers me is before they boosted the wifi signal in the condo I could run the 705 very stable in my bedroom. I never got past 6" with either coil. I excepted this thinking these coils are not that big. Figured they're deeper in ground. This is my first mid level machine. Had a simple $150 bh before. I kept seeing people posting much deeper with the 6" (recently).

Sounds like a detector issue, 6in should be easily obtainable even with a small coil in an air test.

pescadore · Mar 10, 2015

CoiltoSoil said:
Sounds like a detector issue, 6in should be easily obtainable even with a small coil in an air test.

I strongly agree. I never really had depth issues with my Xterra 705 and I have found several coins deeper than 6 inches with it much less an air test. If you dont get better results when you get away from the booster you need to send your machine back to Minelab because something is wrong. My 705 was definitely not the deepest machine that I have owned but your results are unacceptable for a $700 machine. Hope you get the situation taken care of before the weather turns nice.
Pesc

Is Your Detector HOT !!!

pescadore

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tinsmith

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